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Is The Premier League Tougher Than It Used To Be?

Is It?


  • Total voters
    148

Atlas

Lost a sausage bet on Xhaka 😭
I keep telling him this. Not one of these posters has explained how the league is getting harder that stands up to scrutiny, but they keep repeating it like it’s true.

The seismic shift in the league was when two mickey mouse clubs got oil money. It shoved everybody down two notches.
So you look at the league 20 years ago and you honestly think its as hard as it is today?
 

Atlas

Lost a sausage bet on Xhaka 😭
Yeah, you're right, the performance of the top 7 or 8 clubs in the league against the rest of Europe across a five year span tells us absolutely nothing. 🤡

Your willingness for ignorance in the pursuit of your cultist agenda knows no limits, it's truly amazing to see.

I recommend you read the two articles I posted above and educate yourself a bit (not that you will do anything but read it with an eye to see what you can spin in favour of your agenda...).
My favorite arguments of his are when he dismisses Leicester winning the league in 15/16 as an anomaly season and non recurring while using the same season 15/16 to explain how well Wenger was doing by finishing second. Like if Leicester finishing first is an anomaly then how can you possibly say us finishing second isn’t?
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
My favorite arguments of his are when he dismisses Leicester winning the league in 15/16 as an anomaly season and non recurring while using the same season 15/16 to explain how well Wenger was doing by finishing second. Like if Leicester finishing first is an anomaly then how can you possibly say us finishing second isn’t?
The mental gymnastics in pursuit of an agenda are really rather amusing. I honestly think even Manberg is looking on enviously and taking notes.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
My favorite arguments of his are when he dismisses Leicester winning the league in 15/16 as an anomaly season and non recurring while using the same season 15/16 to explain how well Wenger was doing by finishing second. Like if Leicester finishing first is an anomaly then how can you possibly say us finishing second isn’t?
That's a weird statement, doesn't even make sense. But glad it's your favourite argument.

Of course Leicester was anomoly, they've won the top flight once in 140 years. And they're the only club to win the league with a squad investment of below fourth. What do you call it then? A freak? A one off? 14th before that year, and 12th after.

Arsenal's work was consistently good, top of the league when they were spending, hanging on to top 4 when they had little money during the stadium build, and progressing slowly 4th,3rd, 2nd with 2 F A Cups when the purse strings were released slightly. That's a very well run club.

Now it's a complete mess.
 

Xln

Get me Jesus on the phone 📲
League got harder cause there are better, more experienced and insanely tactical coaches who are elevating the PL to supreme, new levels. It's no coincidence Europa is getting dominated by english teams lately.
There is a lot of money in england and it's showing.
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Rice
The main thing here is that most of these midtable clubs will still not be able buy top quality players. Even with the increased revenue and spending power, they'll still buying largely the same quality of players they were buying a decade ago. Newcastle and West Ham both spent 40m on Joelinton and Haller respectively :lol:

The only thing that have improved is their spending power relative to midtable clubs of other leagues. Infact, one could argue that the gap is wider than ever and you also have to factor in attractiveness. Most top talents would still prefer to play for clubs like Chelsea, man utd, Arsenal, Liverpool etc than the likes of Leicester, Aston Villa, West Ham etc.

I largely agree that mid table and lower clubs aren't going to be able to generally sign ready made top class player, that's just the nature of the framework of top level football.

For every Joelinton or Halle, there's a Tielemens or Neves who do succeed though.

Due to the improved financial status of the mid table clubs we're at a stage where they're not being pillaged of their best players every summer by bigger clubs. Mid table clubs can generally keep their nucleus of better players, at least for longer and when they do sell they're able to hold out for much bigger sums of money as happened with Grealish and is also happening with Declan Rice. That gives them a much better chance of pushing up the table.

To me a lot of the views around the league being of a better standard in bygone years are rooted in nostalgia. I think it's natural for us as Arsenal fans to view things that way. We all want to believe the league was at it's best when we were much more successful than we currently are. It would make our achievements feel even greater.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
League got harder cause there are better, more experienced and insanely tactical coaches who are elevating the PL to supreme, new levels. It's no coincidence Europa is getting dominated by english teams lately.
There is a lot of money in england and it's showing.
If the leagues harder with so many insanely tactical coaches coming to the EPL why is it that in the last 4 years, 3 of the highest number of points ever recorded for the eventual winners have occurred.

If the league was genuinely getting harder across the league, it would be tougher to win matches, there’d be more draws and the winners points tally would lower, not higher than ever.
 

Xln

Get me Jesus on the phone 📲
If the leagues harder with so many insanely tactical coaches coming to the EPL why is it that in the last 4 years, 3 of the highest number of points ever recorded for the eventual winners have occurred.

If the league was genuinely getting harder across the league, it would be tougher to win matches, there’d be more draws and the winners points tally would lower, not higher than ever.
You are trying too hard. Count with me.
1)City has 20 players that are almost equally good. There was no such thing before.
2) Liverpool has Klopp transforming the team to a well oiled machine. That wasn't the case for them before.
3) Chelsea - no comment
4) Manchester united are back on track to become the powerhouse they once were, they were inconsistent and had few years of poor results.
5)Leicester is another club that is now contending for top 4 each season as well.
6) Tottenham are like Arsenal so we share the spots with them, sadly...

4 out of those 6 teams are consistently in an Europa final last years. Even multiple at same time. Just a big hint on how consistent these teams have become so getting top 4 is much, much harder than before.

Now on to the lower teams.
If i am not wrong lower teams have more money than say 6 years ago. They actually have some good signing here and there making them pretty solid.
Put the financial aspect away, the midtable and lower table teams are becoming defensively much better due to tactics all the coaches are bringing to the league. Positional play has increased tenfold.

Even the national team putting in some work is another hint on why the premier league has become harder. All the talents from England play with proper coaches teaching them the game, made England become a force to reckon with.

On a last note, to reply on your point:
You know if 1 team dominates the PL in points doesn’t mean everyone else is trash, they are the team that's in form or just even better than the next...
 

Oxeki

Match Day Thread Merchant
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Country: Nigeria

Player:Saliba
No one said the league was harder when Unai finished 1 outside top four places 2 years ago. No one said the league was harder when we finished 6th in Wenger's last season, but now that Mikel is being is being shown to be a bum, all of a sudden the league is harder?



The league has always been hard. It's just that some teams drop off while some teams replace them at the top of the table. Like @Makingtrax said, how come 3 of the last four title challenges have ended with record point haul?



The only difference now is that the oil money and state clubs have consolidated their grip and they continue to outspend everyone. I just A-M come to grip with reality rather continuing to push their narrative of the league being "harder."
 

Oxeki

Match Day Thread Merchant
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Country: Nigeria

Player:Saliba
You are trying too hard. Count with me.
1)City has 20 players that are almost equally good. There was no such thing before.
2) Liverpool has Klopp transforming the team to a well oiled machine. That wasn't the case for them before.
3) Chelsea - no comment
4) Manchester united are back on track to become the powerhouse they once were, they were inconsistent and had few years of poor results.
5)Leicester is another club that is now contending for top 4 each season as well.
6) Tottenham are like Arsenal so we share the spots with them, sadly...

4 out of those 6 teams are consistently in an Europa final last years. Even multiple at same time. Just a big hint on how consistent these teams have become so getting top 4 is much, much harder than before.

Now on to the lower teams.
If i am not wrong lower teams have more money than say 6 years ago. They actually have some good signing here and there making them pretty solid.
Put the financial aspect away, the midtable and lower table teams are becoming defensively much better due to tactics all the coaches are bringing to the league. Positional play has increased tenfold.

Even the national team putting in some work is another hint on why the premier league has become harder. All the talents from England play with proper coaches teaching them the game, made England become a force to reckon with.

On a last note, to reply on your point:
You know if 1 team dominates the PL in points doesn’t mean everyone else is trash, they are the team that's in form or just even better than the next...
You keep harping on the top six. What about the midtable and bottom table clubs? Why are we unable to beat them?
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
You are trying too hard. Count with me.
1)City has 20 players that are almost equally good. There was no such thing before.
2) Liverpool has Klopp transforming the team to a well oiled machine. That wasn't the case for them before.
3) Chelsea - no comment
4) Manchester united are back on track to become the powerhouse they once were, they were inconsistent and had few years of poor results.
5)Leicester is another club that is now contending for top 4 each season as well.
6) Tottenham are like Arsenal so we share the spots with them, sadly...

4 out of those 6 teams are consistently in an Europa final last years. Even multiple at same time. Just a big hint on how consistent these teams have become so getting top 4 is much, much harder than before.

Now on to the lower teams.
If i am not wrong lower teams have more money than say 6 years ago. They actually have some good signing here and there making them pretty solid.
Put the financial aspect away, the midtable and lower table teams are becoming defensively much better due to tactics all the coaches are bringing to the league. Positional play has increased tenfold.

Even the national team putting in some work is another hint on why the premier league has become harder. All the talents from England play with proper coaches teaching them the game, made England become a force to reckon with.

On a last note, to reply on your point:
You know if 1 team dominates the PL in points doesn’t mean everyone else is trash, they are the team that's in form or just even better than the next...
What the EPL teams are doing in Europe has no relevance to competition within the English league.

The league has always had a few very rich teams. By saying the league is harder or more competitive, it insinuates that it’s tougher for those few rich teams that used to dominate to beat medium and low level teams than it used to be. If that were the case though, the winning teams over the last couple of years wouldn’t be blowing them away with record breaking numbers of wins.

Can you see that? If all the teams are getting richer, what actual evidence do you have that the league is harder than it used to be?
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
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Country: England

Player:Saliba
You keep harping on the top six. What about the midtable and bottom table clubs? Why are we unable to beat them?
Bet these are the people who said any manager can get top 4 with Arsenal. Now we’re a Burnley look a like, top 4 is suddenly a mountain to climb and out of reach. What other explanation is there . . the league must be getting harder.
 

UpTheGunnerz

Vrei sa pleci dar una una iei

Player:Elneny
Every pl team now compared to 10 yr ago
Arsenal = worse
Aston villa = better
Brentford = better
Brighton = better
Burnley = better
helsea = better
palace = better
Everton = same
Leeds = better
Leicester = better
Liverpool = better
City = better
Utd = worse
Newcastle = worse
Norwich = same
Southampton = better
Sp**s = better
watford = better
West ham = better
Wolves = better

Alas, majority of teams have gotten better since 10 yr ago, ie the league is now tougher. Big brain time, maffs, statistics all in defence of this thesis. Now lets give this dusted discussion a rest
 

Rimaal

Mesmerised By Raccoons
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source.gif
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
Every pl team now compared to 10 yr ago
Arsenal = worse
Aston villa = better
Brentford = better
Brighton = better
Burnley = better
helsea = better
palace = better
Everton = same
Leeds = better
Leicester = better
Liverpool = better
City = better
Utd = worse
Newcastle = worse
Norwich = same
Southampton = better
Sp**s = better
watford = better
West ham = better
Wolves = better

Alas, majority of teams have gotten better since 10 yr ago, ie the league is now tougher. Big brain time, maffs, statistics all in defence of this thesis. Now lets give this dusted discussion a rest
Tottenham finished 4th 10 years ago, they’re 7th now and was 7th last year. Is this, stick a pin in better, worse, same game? :lol: Wait, maybe the league is getting harder.
 

UpTheGunnerz

Vrei sa pleci dar una una iei

Player:Elneny
Tottenham finished 4th 10 years ago, they’re 7th now and was 7th last year. Is this, stick a pin in better, worse, same game? :lol: Wait, maybe the league is getting harder.

ye i just pulled that out of my ass for banter

my intuitive feeling tho is that the league is more competetive

but i might confuse that with teams being able to bring in better names
 

drippin

Obsessed with "Mature Trusted Members"

Country: Finland
Wait, have I understood correctly..

@Makingtrax is siding with those who say the league hasn't got better, but he endorses squad cost and everyone knows that all the EPL teams have got a lot more money than earlier.

How does that work?
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
Wait, have I understood correctly..

@Makingtrax is siding with those who say the league hasn't got better, but he endorses squad cost and everyone knows that all the EPL teams have got a lot more money than earlier.

How does that work?
If everybody’s got more money explain how anybody gets an advantage? It’s no harder now for Tets than it was for Unai or Arsène.
 

drippin

Obsessed with "Mature Trusted Members"

Country: Finland
If everybody’s got more money explain how anybody gets an advantage? It’s no harder now for Tets than it was for Unai or Arsène.
The lesser teams have got relatively more money than the top teams compared to the past?

They also don't have to sell best players for cheap as staying up is worth so much.
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
You keep harping on the top six. What about the midtable and bottom table clubs? Why are we unable to beat them?
We've provided you with a bevy of reasons for why both midtable and lower table clubs have improved as well. Tactical trends have been discussed, both significant managerial and personnel differences have been pointed out...what else can be done? If you don't see it, it's because you don't want to...

Wait, have I understood correctly..

@Makingtrax is siding with those who say the league hasn't got better, but he endorses squad cost and everyone knows that all the EPL teams have got a lot more money than earlier.

How does that work?
MakingTrax logic goes like this: whatever makes Arsène look better is the correct argument. Call it Arsène's Razor. If something sounds better for Arsène, it is so. (You just know that if someone tried to make an argument for the PL being better from 2011-2016--or the best league in the world, which it was not during that period--despite it being patently clear a false statement, that he would try to find reasons to support it)


He is completely unable to explain why English clubs went from being the brunt of jokes in Europe and failing consistently from 2011-2016 to dominating Europe in unprecedented fashion from 2016-2021. He dismisses it with absolutely the most weak and uncompelling of reasonings (if you can call it that), and wants us to believe that the records of 7-8 teams over 5 year periods against the rest of Europe means absolutely nothing. Please. It's not even worth arguing with.
 

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