Is The Premier League Tougher Than It Used To Be?

[Blankety Blank]

Le grove said yesterday


This is the most competitive / high level competition in the history of football.

Very hard to argue against that with any logic tbh.

Those that don't think along those lines are more concerned about pushing an agenda imho.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

Le grove said yesterday


This is the most competitive / high level competition in the history of football.

Very hard to argue against that with any logic tbh.

Those that don't think along those lines are more concerned about pushing an agenda imho.

Oh thank God ‘Le Grove’ said it this must mean that it’s true! Im so glad I don’t have to think for myself anymore.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Le grove said yesterday


This is the most competitive / high level competition in the history of football.

Very hard to argue against that with any logic tbh.

Those that don't think along those lines are more concerned about pushing an agenda imho.

Indeed. The bolded, especially the second, are very clearly true.

Newcastle added to the works--another top 6 club, can't be underestimated this effect--, United have vastly improved tactical level, Liverpool and Chelsea going through transition phases / cycle issues but have not decreased nor personnel nor tactical level (indeed, league difficulty probably tells us something about Liverpool's struggles, certainly, and perhaps Tuchel's early on), Tottenham has maintained tactical and personnel level, bottom club had bigger net spend than the 4 other biggest leagues combined.

 

[Blankety Blank]

Oh thank God ‘Le Grove’ said it this must mean that it’s true! Im so glad I don’t have to think for myself anymore.

Lol tbf I know he's not to everyone's taste.
He has far more knowledge than a lot of the no marks on here though tbh.

 

[Blankety Blank]

Indeed. The bolded, especially the second, are very clearly true.

Newcastle added to the works--another top 6 club, can't be underestimated this effect--, United have vastly improved tactical level, Liverpool and Chelsea going through transition phases / cycle issues but have not decreased nor personnel nor tactical level (indeed, league difficulty probably tells us something about Liverpool's struggles, certainly, and perhaps Tuchel's early on), Tottenham has maintained tactical and personnel level, bottom club had bigger net spend than the 4 other biggest leagues combined.

Exactly I've said consistently we have a big 6 now looking like a big 7

All those teams are good enough for champions League football.
No other league has anything like close to that quality & the standard has never been higher.

It's simply the widely held opinion of most with brains or those who are not pushing some fanciful warped agenda

 

[Entropics]

Plenty of signs out there the league is hitting rock bottom state: Haaland crushing records he had in the easier bundesliga, Joelinton and Burn key pieces of the 3rd best side of the league, Xhaka and Almiron apparently are now the best midfielders in the league, ETH can actually get an Eredivisie XI and compete, Sp**s providing the best entertainment in the ****ing Champions League and so on

Hopefully it picks up the level again after the world cup, it was bad recently but now is borderline unwatchable. At least for this season they have a great excuse

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

None of it's particularly deep to me.

The natural talent pool is exactly the same as it's been from the first day someone decided to kick a football around.

The methods and techniques we have to extract and maximize that talent improve constantly.

If we're saying 20 years ago was a higher standard of football than now overall, that's due to a mix of nostalgia and bias towards an era we were strong in. No-one would be making the argument 1984 was a high a standard as 04 for example. It would be plainly silly.

Football is operating at the highest level at the moment but it's also one of the most boring periods to watch.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

None of it's particularly deep to me.

The natural talent pool is exactly the same as it's been from the first day someone decided to kick a football around.

The methods and techniques we have to extract and maximize that talent improve constantly.

If we're saying 20 years ago was a higher standard of football than now overall, that's due to a mix of nostalgia and bias towards an era we were strong in. No-one would be making the argument 1984 was a high a standard as 04 for example. It would be plainly silly.

Football is operating at the highest level at the moment but it's also one of the most boring periods to watch.

I think you're missing the point a bit, or mixing issues here.

That football continues to evolve and that players 20 years later are better than ones 20 years before, yes, we know that.

The question is how good the premier league is compared to its competitors in Europe. In the early 2010s as all analysts of European football will tell you, and as results in Europe bear out, the Spanish league was superior to the Premier League, at the very least wrt to teams at the top in CL and EL places.

In the mid to late 2010s between managerial importations and continued economic separation, and continued importation of talent resulting, this began to change, and by the late 2010s the Premier League was the superior league by any measure.

This now continues to occur, and the gap only continues to widen. We can look at this by any number of measures, but perhaps the best one is a common sense comparing of team's / competitor's levels. Is Manchester City at a higher level since the arrival of Pep Guardiola? Yes. Is Liverpool at a higher level since the arrival of Klopp (which has also permitted a further economic expansion at the club)? Yes. Is Newcastle at a significantly higher level than it has been any of the past couple decades, and since the early 2010s? Yes. Has Chelsea's economic or tactical level remained basically constant, with regular oscillations on a year to year basis? Yes. Can we say the same for Tottenham? Yes, also adding that their tactical level has certainly taken a step up since the arrivals of Pochettino and Conté, in comparison to the tactically deficient managers they had at the helm. Is United better currently than it was in the mid 2010s (tactical level)? Yes. Would (quite arguable) Leicester not being as good as they are in the mid 2010s compensate for all these combined effects? No.

Do we have extremely powerful economic examples of the disproportionate and always exponentially growing further disproportionate economic power of the Premier League in comparison to the rest of Europe? Yes (the biggest club in the world, Madrid, has half the squad value of City; a recently ascended and last place team had a bigger net spend than the closest 4 leagues combined in the summer; the squad values and cost of Premier League clubs dwarf La Liga's in absolutely brutal fashion).

Conclusion: the Premier League has never had a bigger gap between it as the best league in the world, and the second best. (It is arguable whether it has ever been even indisputably the best, before this period) And the gap continues to grow (hence Florentino's and Juve's desperate attempts to arm a super league for the best interests of their clubs).

 

[BigPoppaPump]

Lol tbf I know he's not to everyone's taste.
He has far more knowledge than a lot of the no marks on here though tbh.

That’s not a high bar to be fair.

 

[Riou]

Absolutely not!

God Arteta still a GOAT manager though.

 

[db10_therza]

It’s a terrible question tbf.

Tougher to what? To win? Get top4? Not get relegated? Get away with shirt pulls in the penalty area?

And what is the benchmark? Tougher compared to competitor leagues in Europe back then vs now?

There’s so so many variables at play whenever we ask one of these anachronistic questions that whatever answer anyone gives is always just going to be an extension of their biases. No surprise @Riou would answer with no for example, while he strokes a bald headed Cygan on page3 of the scrapbook he made when he was 7…

 

[GoonerJeeves]

Oh thank God ‘Le Grove’ said it this must mean that it’s true! Im so glad I don’t have to think for myself anymore.

Honestly the most moaning wee old blogger now turned prophet there ever was.

 

[BergMan]

It definitely is. Footballers were barely professional athletes back then. They used to eat unhealthy food and drink alcohol all the time. You look now there’s technology, gps tracking, every footballer has their nutritionist etc. It’s in every club in the premier league. That’s not even mentioning how tactics and general play has evolved to get the maximum out of every input.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Liverpool also had a midfield of Gerrard, Mascherano and Alonso and never won the league before they fell down a bit after Benitez left. There ain't a better midfield in the league than that right now.

Newcastle had some fella called Shearer carrying them into the CL back in the day. Leeds got to a semi final. It's splitting hairs outside the top 4 of who was better then or now.

One thing is for sure the top 4 aren't at the same level as they where in the mid 2000's. Regularly there would be 3 of the 4 semi finalists in the CL being English clubs.

English clubs still dominate the CL, City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Sp**s have all made not just the CL but the actual final in the last 3 years.

 

[MikelHadADream]

Le grove said yesterday


This is the most competitive / high level competition in the history of football.

Very hard to argue against that with any logic tbh.

Those that don't think along those lines are more concerned about pushing an agenda imho.

Lol Grove is a clown but I do agree with the underlying point. The financial power of the PL is so far head of the rest of Europe now it’s obviously going to be reflected in the quality of the players (relative to the rest of Europe).

I don’t see why it’s such a contentious point on here, it doesn’t discredit people’s past achievements.

 

[Macho]

I don’t see why it’s such a contentious point on here.

It’s not, the prem being superior to the rest is a forgone conclusion.

The contentious point is prem now > prem of the past.

The biggest Arsène critics who just so happen to be Arteta backers (Le Grove and some on here) are furiously pounding the table in regards to the prem being far superior now. Pretty obvious agenda to see through.

Some have even tried to suggest this season would give Wenger’s best seasons a run for its money - so there are subtle attempts to discredit previous accomplishments whilst garnish the work in progress in my opinion.

 

[sergio_giorgini]

It’s not, the prem being superior to the rest is a forgone conclusion.

The contentious point is prem now > prem of the past.

The biggest Arsène critics who just so happen to be Arteta backers (Le Grove and some on here) are furiously pounding the table in regards to the prem being far superior now. Pretty obvious agenda to see through.

Some have even tried to suggest this season would give Wenger’s best seasons a run for its money - so there are subtle attempts to discredit previous accomplishments whilst garnish the work in progress in my opinion.

You don’t half chat a monumental amount of rubbish. No offence.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

The contentious point is prem now > prem of the past.

It's really not contentious. Anyways, british-centric opinions will be british-centric opinions, if you want to be ignorant to the context of European football football and what analysts around Europe and everyone within football is saying (including the managers, of course), and which is backed up with a mountain of evidence, by my guest.

The biggest Arsène critics who just so happen to be Arteta backers are furiously pounding the table in regards to the prem being far superior now. Pretty obvious agenda to see through.

Couldn't help laughing at this. Arguing against something everyone in football is aware of and has been talking about for a few years now, without presenting anything even resembling a convincing argument, and the agenda is ours

I honestly don't care about what conclusions you take from it. I know better than to bring up any Arteta / Wenger discussions with the zealouts here, there's no good discussion to be had there. It is frustrating to see such willful ignorance, though, just as you'd have the whole of the football community here in Spain laughing at the way Em*ry was talked about through pure ignorance on Arsenal communities, so would you at this discussion.

The funny thing is you are showing obvious ignorance for basically the fundamental dynamics of European football in general atm, the motives behind the pushers of the Super League, the reasons behind it...it's a much bigger thing than just your insular Wenger zealoutism and Arsenal forum posturing, it's fundamental to actually understanding European football, but I digress...

Ay, why do I bother...

 

[samspade]

The agenda is obvious: our successes and heroes as Arsenal fans came in what is now a bygone era and we desperately cling to the idea that they would still be relevant today and hence making our successes more relevant and not depreciating in value.

I think you just need to appreciate it for what it was. It was beautiful but now it's gone, doomed to fade into history. Like everything else you can think of.

This era will almost definitely be irrelevant in twenty years. Management can get a lot better, look how small the gene pool is!

 

[samspade]

Honestly, when I first saw this thread, I couldn't believe it existed, that it was even a question.

There's no way Liverpool fans are asking who would win between the Klopp teams and the Dalglish (player) teams. I wonder what the difference is....