Is The Premier League Tougher Than It Used To Be?

Is It?


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Makingtrax

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The lesser teams have got relatively more money than the top teams compared to the past?

They also don't have to sell best players for cheap as staying up is worth so much.
I don’t see how having relatively more money than you had before gives you an advantage if you’re bidding for a player, if the team above you has had the same extra money. You’re trying hard though.
 

Makingtrax

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We've provided you with a bevy of reasons for why both midtable and lower table clubs have improved as well. Tactical trends have been discussed, both significant managerial and personnel differences have been pointed out...what else can be done? If you don't see it, it's because you don't want to...


MakingTrax logic goes like this: whatever makes Arsène look better is the correct argument. Call it Arsène's Razor. If something sounds better for Arsène, it is so. (You just know that if someone tried to make an argument for the PL being better from 2011-2016--or the best league in the world, which it was not during that period--despite it being patently clear a false statement, that he would try to find reasons to support it)


He is completely unable to explain why English clubs went from being the brunt of jokes in Europe and failing consistently from 2011-2016 to dominating Europe in unprecedented fashion from 2016-2021. He dismisses it with absolutely the most weak and uncompelling of reasonings (if you can call it that), and wants us to believe that the records of 7-8 teams over 5 year periods against the rest of Europe means absolutely nothing. Please. It's not even worth arguing with.
I keep asking you this question, if mid table and lower clubs are improving so much like you claim, then why have the teams at the top won an unprecedented number of matches to win the league, breaking records in 3 of the last 4 years. The lower teams should be tougher to beat and there should be a greater number of draws.

This is clearly a spanner in your bevy of reasons, which is probably why you keep writing endless paragraphs about me. :lol:
 

Oxeki

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Wait, have I understood correctly..

@Makingtrax is siding with those who say the league hasn't got better, but he endorses squad cost and everyone knows that all the EPL teams have got a lot more money than earlier.

How does that work?
Look at it this way, the sort of player midtable clubs are signing now are the same players they were signing 10 years ago. Those players just got more expensive now ffs. I gave the Haller and Joelinton example a couple of pages back.

The reason we perceive the league as being harder is because we have a worse manager than majority of the clubs in the league.

I asked a question A-M has ignored; Why is it that Emery with a worse squad than this finished 1 point outside top four but A-M thought he bottled top 4. Also why is it that Moyes who was being regarded as a joke took over a west Ham team that was almost relegated and transformed them despite the team not having "his players" like A-M like to say?

I'll tell you why. The reason is that the standard of the league hasn't changed. We've just gotten progressively worse. That is why is why everyone think it is a struggle to beat bottom half team this days.

Ironically, I remember this debate started last season after the 1-1 draw vs Burnley and most people on here was saying this present Burnley was harder to beat compared to a few years ago :lol:
 

Xillin

Xhaka 🔛, Telly 🔨
Look at it this way, the sort of player midtable clubs are signing now are the same players they were signing 10 years ago. Those players just got more expensive now ffs. I gave the Haller and Joelinton example a couple of pages back.

The reason we perceive the league as being harder is because we have a worse manager than majority of the clubs in the league.

I asked a question A-M has ignored; Why is it that Emery with a worse squad than this finished 1 point outside top four but A-M thought he bottled top 4. Also why is it that Moyes who was being regarded as a joke took over a west Ham team that was almost relegated and transformed them despite the team not having "his players" like A-M like to say?

I'll tell you why. The reason is that the standard of the league hasn't changed. We've just gotten progressively worse. That is why is why everyone think it is a struggle to beat bottom half team this days.

Ironically, I remember this debate started last season after the 1-1 draw vs Burnley and most people on here was saying this present Burnley was harder to beat compared to a few years ago :lol:
It's not about squad cost per se honestly, it's another reason but not a big changer.
The big gamechanger is the import of new tactics from existing managers to foreign managers coming in the league changing up everything.

You see how teams defend now compared to 6 years ago? There is a huge difference and if you deny this then there is no point to keep on raving about the league.
 

Atlas

Lost a sausage bet on Xhaka 😭
I keep asking you this question, if mid table and lower clubs are improving so much like you claim, then why have the teams at the top won an unprecedented number of matches to win the league, breaking records in 3 of the last 4 years. The lower teams should be tougher to beat and there should be a greater number of draws.

This is clearly a spanner in your bevy of reasons, which is probably why you keep writing endless paragraphs about me. :lol:
When I say the league is tougher I mean winning the league and qualifying for the top 4 is tougher. Which of course nobody would deny given the fact that Chelsea and City have changed the nature of the league. In 08/09 we lost our entire midfield for the start of the season and finished top 4 by virtue of finishing above Villa and Everton. Well if finishing above those 2 was all you needed to finish top 4 then we would have done so last season.

Qualifying for the CL has never been harder. Chelsea and Utd are consistently strong even if not as strong as before while Sp**s and Liverpool have hit levels of consistency that they could only dream about a decade ago. Leicester have won the league and the FA Cup in recent years and are a superbly run outfit with no equivalent 10-20 years ago. I don’t think anything needs to be said about the effect of the rise of City.

The PL now reminds me of Serie A from the late 90s/early 00s when they had 7 clubs in the mix : Lazio, Roma, Fiorentina, AC, Inter, Juve and Parma. In such a competitive league you cannot afford to have a manager like Arteta pulling you down as the other teams advance. Man has to be upgraded on ASAP before he caused irreversible damage.
 

Makingtrax

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When I say the league is tougher I mean winning the league and qualifying for the top 4 is tougher. Which of course nobody would deny given the fact that Chelsea and City have changed the nature of the league. In 08/09 we lost our entire midfield for the start of the season and finished top 4 by virtue of finishing above Villa and Everton. Well if finishing above those 2 was all you needed to finish top 4 then we would have done so last season.

Qualifying for the CL has never been harder. Chelsea and Utd are consistently strong even if not as strong as before while Sp**s and Liverpool have hit levels of consistency that they could only dream about a decade ago. Leicester have won the league and the FA Cup in recent years and are a superbly run outfit with no equivalent 10-20 years ago. I don’t think anything needs to be said about the effect of the rise of City.

The PL now reminds me of Serie A from the late 90s/early 00s when they had 7 clubs in the mix : Lazio, Roma, Fiorentina, AC, Inter, Juve and Parma. In such a competitive league you cannot afford to have a manager like Arteta pulling you down as the other teams advance. Man has to be upgraded on ASAP before he caused irreversible damage.
Chelsea and Man City coming into the league were game changers, I agree. But we’re still investing 5th in our squad so we should be able to beat Sp**s, Everton and Leicester with a good management team, as they’re spending less on players. I’m not expecting us to mix it up with the richer teams like Wenger did, because he was exceptional.
 

Atlas

Lost a sausage bet on Xhaka 😭
Chelsea and Man City coming into the league were game changers, I agree. But we’re still investing 5th in our squad so we should be able to beat Sp**s, Everton and Leicester with a good management team, as they’re spending less on players. I’m not expecting us to mix it up with the richer teams like Wenger did, because he was exceptional.
A better manager would have us in the top 4. A Klopp or peak Wenger would have us challenging for the title. The league is too competitive for us to get away with someone like Arteta.
 

myoldarsenal

Active Member
No one said the league was harder when Unai finished 1 outside top four places 2 years ago. No one said the league was harder when we finished 6th in Wenger's last season, but now that Mikel is being is being shown to be a ***, all of a sudden the league is harder?

Why do people say this?

I believe the league is tougher than before, easily. I ALSO believe Arteta is trash and is genuinely the worst manager we could have had and is fast becoming the reason we are ending up as midtable garbage. It doesn't matter what era it is, Arteta even 10 years ago would have found a way to land us 8th. Right now the players we have are a bit sh1t but back then he would have lost the dressing room in 20 games.

Before we had to contend with noone to get to top 4 most of the time, or fight for top 4 with the mess Sp**s were. We'd have really bad seasons before and we'd still end up top 4 because other than Sp**s noone really gave a fight for top 4. Now one bad season can end up us at 8th. Now we have to fight with teams like Everton, West Ham AND Sp**s, and still have to some how dislodge Pool, City, United and Chelsea.
 

Makingtrax

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I believe the league is tougher than before, easily.
Before we had to contend with noone to get to top 4 most of the time,
Now we have to fight with teams like Everton, West Ham AND Sp**s,
Right now the players we have are a bit sh1t
How many unsubstantiated claims can you make in one post. What a fairy tale? We're spending a lot more on players than those teams, so they should be no problem for us. :lol:
 

myoldarsenal

Active Member
Everton, West Ham and Sp**s aren't even that good, tbh.

Wish people would stop using them as a way to show the league is tougher.
West Ham finished above us last season despite spending nothing compared to us. Sp**s have now regularly finished above us the past few years.

There is a lot more money in the league now and PL is attracting a lot of top managers. Its undoubtedly tougher now. For Arsenal its even more tougher because of the clown who's managing us, and the longer he stays the more we'll keep on dropping.
 

Makingtrax

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2004/5

-a younger Benitez who had just won La Liga arrived at Liverpool

- Mourinho who had just won the Champions League arrived at Chelsea from Porto with an almost open cheque book

- United had Alex Ferguson who were spending top dollar and had won 8 EPL titles.

- Santini arrived from France to take charge of Sp**s, awarded Best French coach in 2002 by France Football and World's Best National Coach of the Year in 2003 by International Federation of Football after taking charge of France.

Anybody who tells us the league is getting harder these days because its now attracting the best coaches is talking through their arse.
 
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RacingPhoton

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2004/5

-a younger Benitez who had just won La Liga arrived at Liverpool

- Mourinho who had just won the Champions League arrived at Chelsea from Porto with an almost open cheque book

- United had Alex Ferguson who were spending top dollar and had won 8 EPL titles.

- Santini arrived from France to take charge of Sp**s, awarded Best French coach in 2002 by France Football and World's Best National Coach of the Year in 2003 by International Federation of Football after taking charge of France.

Anybody who tells us the league is getting harder these days because its now attracting the best coaches is talking through their arse.
The league is indeed harder these days. I am not sure if it is because of coaches though.

Points scored by 10th position team in the League table in the last few years.
20-21 - 59
19-20 - 54
18-19 - 52
17-18 - 44
16-17 - 45
15-16 - 50
14-15 - 48

It can be seen that mid-table teams are punching above their weights recently. There could be plenty of reasons with TV money being one. But this should never be an excuse for Arteta though.
 

Blankety Blank

Well-Known Member
2004/5

-a younger Benitez who had just won La Liga arrived at Liverpool

- Mourinho who had just won the Champions League arrived at Chelsea from Porto with an almost open cheque book

- United had Alex Ferguson who were spending top dollar and had won 8 EPL titles.

- Santini arrived from France to take charge of Sp**s, awarded Best French coach in 2002 by France Football and World's Best National Coach of the Year in 2003 by International Federation of Football after taking charge of France.

Anybody who tells us the league is getting harder these days because its now attracting the best coaches is talking through their arse.
Haha i think Klopp, Pep & Tuchel may beg to differ.
Rafa is also back & the mighty mourinho a manager who had Arsenes number for years got sacked last year due to not doing better with a team that has been above us for 5 years.
Carlo a recognised top level manager finished lower than us with Everton & still got the Madrid job. Poch struggled for a few months at Sp**s got fired & walked into the PSG job. You also have Rogers a proven coach who has done extremely well & a whole host of younger talented coaches through the league
Im not saying its just the coaches btw, its a combination of that & the quality of the teams that makes it so tough.
Anyone who doesnt think the standard of the league is way stronger nowadays is frankly deluded.
Neville said on MNF the top 4 were likely the best 4 teams in the World right now & the premier league in general was stronger than its ever been. I find it very difficult to go against that.
 

Atlas

Lost a sausage bet on Xhaka 😭
He just won't admit that Wenger couldn't cope with the league anymore
It’s not true that Wenger couldn’t cope. The correct word to use is outperform. Our natural position is 5th/6th as we see now and that is where Wenger ended up.
 

IstraBalagina

Well-Known Member
Haha i think Klopp, Pep & Tuchel may beg to differ.
Rafa is also back & the mighty mourinho a manager who had Arsenes number for years got sacked last year due to not doing better with a team that has been above us for 5 years.
Carlo a recognised top level manager finished lower than us with Everton & still got the Madrid job. Poch struggled for a few months at Sp**s got fired & walked into the PSG job. You also have Rogers a proven coach who has done extremely well & a whole host of younger talented coaches through the league
Im not saying its just the coaches btw, its a combination of that & the quality of the teams that makes it so tough.
Anyone who doesnt think the standard of the league is way stronger nowadays is frankly deluded.
Neville said on MNF the top 4 were likely the best 4 teams in the World right now & the premier league in general was stronger than its ever been. I find it very difficult to go against that.
He just won't admit that Wenger couldn't cope with the league anymore
 

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