Jack Wilshere: Where to now?

[MustOezil]

Does anyone think he can still be the player he was?

I’d like to think so but after 2015/16 his performances went off a cliff. He was ok-ish at Bournemouth but the Chelsea game aside this year it’s been a real slog watching him after Christmas.

Him getting dominated by Ostersunds in the home leg was probably the low point of his Arsenal career on the pitch.

i don't think he can, simply because his body has transformed over the last couple of years. He lost a step, he gained mass, and all the injuries changed his legs. Jack certainly can still reach the same level but he won't be the same player any longer.

 

[James Bond]

That's not correct. Wilshere himself noted that once Allardyce ignored him for selection and there were new faces in our midfield, he felt that Wenger would not consider him for first XI.


Instead of proving himself to Wenger that he's fit and can get into first XI, he chose the easy option of going out on a loan to a weak club. And he didn't set the world alight on loan either. He didn't score nor had a single assist there.

…

I guess its all how you choose to look at things. Jack was out of football with injuries for pretty much the previous 2 years at the time after that **** Paddy McNair destroyed his ankle only for him to work his way back and then get hit with more bad luck as Gab clattered him in training just before (after?) the start of the season. After dealing with numerous setback cycles trying to rush back to prove himself in the past, he instead decided to take a step down get away from the pressure to perform right away and distractions of London life and work his fitness back up. (He had loads of other offers at Roma, Inter and Palace, but chose Bournemouth)


Jack isnt the first Arsenal player coming back from a year long injury to leave to regain fitness at a smaller club either with Ramsey at Forest and Cardiff, or Gnabry at WBA to name a few, but I cant remember reading similar types of **** that Jack gets for the same decision. And on that note I’m not sure you can/should judge a rehab driven loan on stats like goals and assist….especially considering Jack’s game/strengths as a player don’t show up in goals and assists.

…

I don't think we're blaming Wilshere for Arsenal failed 2016/17 season.

…

Spoiler

The moment we sign another midfielder and he does not get invited at England, he thinks he can sabotage the club, by asking for a stupid loan move to Bournemouth. After ending up there, he cuts a long face, removes any reference to Arsenal, never mentions the club anymore.


When he got back with tail under his leg after a failed loan spell at Bournemouth, he had some bad performances, but then as soon as he starts to have some solid displays around New Year/January, he becomes entitled again and hangs around an offer for a new contract from us. Despite Wenger publicly backing him to sign a new contract he hangs around, thinking it will make the club fold and accept his terms

...

Yeah that loan decision was the stupidest thing Wilshere could have done (especially in hindsight) and all because he panicked because he didn't get called up for England smh..


What's worse is that Cazorla and Ramsey were both crocked that season, we needed him and he would have got plenty of game time here, that 1 point we missed top4 with might have ended differently if he had stayed.

Could have fooled me. You said he ‘sabotaged” the club by going on loan and @krengon quoted that passage, cosigned your feelings, and talked about how Jack staying could have been the difference the 1 point we finished off 4th. How should one interpret those statements other than blaming him for the outcome?

What I blame Jack for is his ego, he could've stayed and fought for his place.

As a reminder here were Arsenal's midfield options at the start of the 2016/2017 season a unfit, basically 2 year out of football, Wilshere needed to beat out for gametime.

Arsenal's midfield options at the time of choosing a loan: Xhaka, Özil, Ramsey, Coquelin, Elneny, Cazorla.

Cant help but feel you’re out here looking at things with the benefit of hindsight. Hell here is what Wenger, the manager that allowed him to go on loan, said right after the loan and then even after a bunch of AFC midfielders were out and Jack had no recall clause:

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I ask every week how did he play but I haven't spoken to him. I leave him to talk to his manager. When I can watch him, I do watch him.

I am happy that he is developing well. It was a good decision for him to go to get regular football. He is getting stronger every week and that is exactly what he needed. When a player like Jack is in top form, you miss him.

Any new deal would be for football reasons and "not to protect our value", according to Wenger, who said: "I let him go this season because we bought Granit Xhaka, we have Mohamed Elneny, Aaron Ramsey, and I thought if he doesn't play regularly and wasn't fit enough to be in the position to start games...so I let him go.
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http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-will-get-new-arsenal-deal-Arsène-wenger-says

"Yes, I could use him now.

"But if he had not played until now, he would not be ready to play now. What looks unfair at some moments in the season is that you know at some stage you could need the player.

"But even at the start you need to have the right balance between competition and numbers and chances for the player to play. And still today I think it was the right decision for him to go."

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ilshere-to-leave-arsenal-for-bournemouth-loan

Also more recently for ignoring Wenger's plea to sign the new contract. Heck, even in one of his last ever pressers Wenger repeated (and it sounded like begging) that he wants to see Wilshere continue at Arsenal. If that wasn't enough to convince Wilshere, then it's his problem.

We offered him a reduced contract FFS. No other player, no matter how injury prone they were in recent Arsenal history (ie recently Rosicky, Arteta, Diaby, Santi, etc) got offered a deal with a paycut. It was mad disrespectful and I said as much on here at the time. You could argue this kind of contract needed to be handed out sooner to the aforementioned injury prone players, but it doesn’t make it any easier to accept if you’re the first one to be offered this type of deal. I mean if your boss offered you and only you to take a pay cut how are you going to take it?

Jack backed himself to play his way into a new contract much like Elneny did (from being offered to LCFC over the summer to a new deal), he took a gamble but he backed his ability and it looks to have not worked out it, but I respect/cant fault him for it.

 

[James Bond]

Also don't even get me started on Wilshere being motivated to prove himself for England again.

Jack was one of the of not the single biggest scapegoat for England's Euro 2016 failings. Think back to all the stick he got for being selected/in the squad despite being great in qualifying. Then think to the reaction at FT of getting eliminated and going out with a whimper to the lowly Iceland. Jack was Roy's first sub shortly after half with the team already down 2-1, but you'd think he was why the team the two set piece goals or why England looked toothless/clueless throughout the whole ****ing tournament (Jack played a combined 90 min or so over the 4 games with a majority coming after being called on to salvage the Iceland fiasco).

Still makes me mad how much the media/fans hammered Jack during the fallout where the horrendous performances the ****s like Ali and especially that **** Kane (EASILY England's worst player at the Euros) got swept under the rug.

I totally understand him wanting to get back into England fold, perform again for himself and for his country, and clear his name and shut people up along the way.

 

[MustOezil]

You can't compare Jack to Diaby and Rosicky, Abou refused pay at times since he didn't contribute to the club and signed a pay to play deal with Marseille. Rosicky was a well developed player who wasn't on a overly high contract.

You defend Wilshere, but the simple truth is he's holding the club out for more money when he is 100% not worth what we are currently paying him. The Bournemouth loan is an example of why he owes us rather than a reason to blame him for 2015/16 failures

 

[albakos]

Nice words dissection.

He sabotaged the club, because he wanted to be first team, despite other midfield options you've mentioned.
When Wenger didn't assure him of that and then Allardyce ignored him, he left on a loan.

Do you expect that by quoting what Wenger said, he approved of his loan move ? Wenger does not throw players under the bus.

Hopefully if Wenger publishes a book, there will be so many things we find out, probably on this one too.

 

[Stannis]

This whole argument that it was stupid to give him a pay cut is silly.

It’s hardly a pay cut. His base monthly wage was gonna go down 5k from 90 to 85. However it was incentivised based on appearances. Unless jack missed the entire season from injury he would most likely be making more. I believe it went to 125 k a month.

Given the millions the club spent on him when others would have tossed him aside, it’s hardly a crime. Jack just is too entitled

 

[Garrincha]

This whole argument that it was stupid to give him a pay cut is silly.

It’s hardly a pay cut. His base monthly wage was gonna go down 5k from 90 to 85. However it was incentivised based on appearances. Unless jack missed the entire season from injury he would most likely be making more. I believe it went to 125 k a month.

Given the millions the club spent on him when others would have tossed him aside, it’s hardly a crime. Jack just is too entitled

Time left on his deal changes all that. Jack & his agent have all the power when deal under 12 months. Just like with Özil, Ox, Ramsey now & Walcott in previous years.

Not sure how it makes Jack entitled either. He always gave 100% for us even in his final year of contract... with his injury history thats commendable & a big risk.

 

[YeahBee]

I guess its all how you choose to look at things. Jack was out of football with injuries for pretty much the previous 2 years at the time after that **** Paddy McNair destroyed his ankle only for him to work his way back and then get hit with more bad luck as Gab clattered him in training just before (after?) the start of the season. After dealing with numerous setback cycles trying to rush back to prove himself in the past, he instead decided to take a step down get away from the pressure to perform right away and distractions of London life and work his fitness back up. (He had loads of other offers at Roma, Inter and Palace, but chose Bournemouth)


Jack isnt the first Arsenal player coming back from a year long injury to leave to regain fitness at a smaller club either with Ramsey at Forest and Cardiff, or Gnabry at WBA to name a few, but I cant remember reading similar types of **** that Jack gets for the same decision. And on that note I’m not sure you can/should judge a rehab driven loan on stats like goals and assist….especially considering Jack’s game/strengths as a player don’t show up in goals and assists.






Could have fooled me. You said he ‘sabotaged” the club by going on loan and @krengon quoted that passage, cosigned your feelings, and talked about how Jack staying could have been the difference the 1 point we finished off 4th. How should one interpret those statements other than blaming him for the outcome?





As a reminder here were Arsenal's midfield options at the start of the 2016/2017 season a unfit, basically 2 year out of football, Wilshere needed to beat out for gametime.

Arsenal's midfield options at the time of choosing a loan: Xhaka, Özil, Ramsey, Coquelin, Elneny, Cazorla.

Cant help but feel you’re out here looking at things with the benefit of hindsight. Hell here is what Wenger, the manager that allowed him to go on loan, said right after the loan and then even after a bunch of AFC midfielders were out and Jack had no recall clause:













We offered him a reduced contract FFS. No other player, no matter how injury prone they were in recent Arsenal history (ie recently Rosicky, Arteta, Diaby, Santi, etc) got offered a deal with a paycut. It was mad disrespectful and I said as much on here at the time. You could argue this kind of contract needed to be handed out sooner to the aforementioned injury prone players, but it doesn’t make it any easier to accept if you’re the first one to be offered this type of deal. I mean if your boss offered you and only you to take a pay cut how are you going to take it?

Jack backed himself to play his way into a new contract much like Elneny did (from being offered to LCFC over the summer to a new deal), he took a gamble but he backed his ability and it looks to have not worked out it, but I respect/cant fault him for it.

Not at all disrespectful

How can truth be disrespectful ?

That we didn't offer paycuts to those YOU listed is whats disrespectful

 

[YeahBee]

Time left on his deal changes all that. Jack & his agent have all the power when deal under 12 months. Just like with Özil, Ox, Ramsey now & Walcott in previous years.

Not sure how it makes Jack entitled either. He always gave 100% for us even in his final year of contract... with his injury history thats commendable & a big risk.

What frekkin risk? He is a multimillionaire playing football

Oh he risks not being a multi multimillionaire ? Cry me a river
He hasnt worked an honest job a day in his life

Talk about risks .... Entitled brat is what he is and should be grateful

That he is not willing to play for a bonus based salary shows that he himself had no faith in himself so why should we?

 

[Garrincha]

What frekkin risk? He is a multimillionaire playing football

Oh he risks not being a multi multimillionaire ? Cry me a river
He hasnt worked an honest job a day in his life

Talk about risks .... Entitled brat is what he is and should be grateful

That he is not willing to play for a bonus based salary shows that he himself had no faith in himself so why should we?

I really dont know where the 'entitled' stuff has started to come from.

Its a huge risk for a player running down their deals especially between 25-30. Sure he is a multimillionaire but also has the opportunity to earn more millions playing in his prime years.

In his position like **** I take a bonus based salary. Would you honestly?

I am leveraging my worth to get a good Arsenal deal or getting a hefty cut of my market value at the club that get me on a free.

 

[krengon]

We offered him a reduced contract FFS. No other player, no matter how injury prone they were in recent Arsenal history (ie recently Rosicky, Arteta, Diaby, Santi, etc) got offered a deal with a paycut. It was mad disrespectful and I said as much on here at the time. You could argue this kind of contract needed to be handed out sooner to the aforementioned injury prone players, but it doesn’t make it any easier to accept if you’re the first one to be offered this type of deal. I mean if your boss offered you and only you to take a pay cut how are you going to take it?

Jack backed himself to play his way into a new contract much like Elneny did (from being offered to LCFC over the summer to a new deal), he took a gamble but he backed his ability and it looks to have not worked out it, but I respect/cant fault him for it.

I agree with this, Wilshere is well within his rights not to accept a contract like that, at worst it should have been similar to what he's on now with incentives.. Think the contract offer reflects the fact that we weren't too bothered whether he stayed or left..

"It was an honest conversation," Wilshere said. "It had been boiling up for a while.

"Everybody knew I had a year left on my deal and had been out on loan, got injured and wasn't really in his plans. He just said: 'At the moment we are not going to be offering you a contract so, if you can get one somewhere else, you can go.'"

In the end it's business and Wilshere should do what's best for him and his career. I hope he stays, but if he's not really in Emery's plans who can blame him for looking elsewhere.

 

[Ricardinho]

Looking forward to them getting the meeting out the way so we can know whether he's going or staying. Dragging on a bit.

 

[YeahBee]

I really dont know where the 'entitled' stuff has started to come from.

Its a huge risk for a player running down their deals especially between 25-30. Sure he is a multimillionaire but also has the opportunity to earn more millions playing in his prime years.

In his position like **** I take a bonus based salary. Would you honestly?

I am leveraging my worth to get a good Arsenal deal or getting a hefty cut of my market value at the club that get me on a free.

To play for my favourite club hell Yes I would

But that is easy to say from the stands

I have chosen to work in the public sector thou. Less money and less apppriciation
And I do "free" work

There are several players out there who has made the right choice

Stayed with their clubs even when giants has wanted them so it is not unheard of

 

[Jury]

You can't compare Jack to Diaby and Rosicky

You can't? Well ok

 

[Beast Incarnate]

Honestly I'm not bothered if he goes now.

You would think he feels like he owes the club after being paid ridiculous sums to sit on the treatment table.

 

[Jury]

Honestly I'm not bothered if he goes now.

You would think he feels like he owes the club after being paid ridiculous sums to sit on the treatment table.

Do you feel like you owe your employers money when you come back to work after sick leave?

Actually, would you feel like you owed them anything at all if you were injured while performing your work?

 

[juice man]

Jack doesn’t owe us ****. We don’t owe him anything either. Don’t know where all that nonsense comes from.

 

[Jury]

@Beast Incarnate Do you think Lenny ever felt he owed anyone anything when he couldn't make the door of Camden Palace on a cold night? Do you think he ever bothered phoning in sick?

 

[Beksl]

Do you feel like you owe your employers money when you come back to work after sick leave?

Actually, would you feel like you owed them anything at all if you were injured while performing your work?

Would you demand getting a rise despite being lackluster in your work not performing to the required/expected standard?

 

[James Bond]

Nice words dissection.

Broke down the response since there was a lot to reply to, wasnt trying to twist your words or anything and I didnt think you or anyone else wanted to read a wall of text without the specifics of what I was responding to.

He sabotaged the club, because he wanted to be first team, despite other midfield options you've mentioned

When Wenger didn't assure him of that and then Allardyce ignored him, he left on a loan.

How dare a player want to play at Arsenal or for England! Stupid spoiled brat should have been happy with the time he would have been given and happy with the contract given! Am I doing it right?

Isnt gametime the thing every player wants and a player coming back from injury need alot of? Sorry cant stand that people think it was a selfish move to go on loan to get as many games as possible to rehab and get back to his best. He wasnt in the first team plans, we were on paper at the time fully stocked in midfield, and the window was still open.

Here let me break it down for you...

14/08/2016 Arsenal v Liverpool: DNP
20/08/2016 v LCFC : Subbed on for 18 min
27/08/2016 v Watford: Subbed on for 20 min
31/08/2016 Wilshere goes on loan to Bournemouth
31/08/2016 Summer transfer window closes.
10/09/2016 AFCB v WBA: Subbed on for 27 mins
17/09/2016 AFCB v Man City: Started. 68 mins
24/09/2016 AFCB v Everton: Started. 76 mins
01/10/2016 AFCB v Watford: Started 74 mins
15/10/2016 AFCB v Hull City: Started. 79 mins
22/10/2016 AFCB v Tottenham: Started: Full 90 mins.
26/10/2016 AFCB v Middlesbrough Started. Full 90 mins.
05/11/2016 ACFB v Sunderland. Started. Full 90 mins.
19/11/2016 ACFB vs Stoke Started. Full 90 mins.
...
Loan summary:
Premier League: 22 starts, 5 sub, 1912 mins played. Loan cut short due to injury picked up vs Tottenham on 15/04/2017.

Despite his loan ending early Jack had his highest appearance total in the PL and minutes played since his breakthrough season in 2010/2011, but keep telling me how it was better for Wilshere to stay and fight for his place though.

Do you expect that by quoting what Wenger said, he approved of his loan move ? Wenger does not throw players under the bus.

Hopefully if Wenger publishes a book, there will be so many things we find out, probably on this one too.

Yes. Yes I do seeing as he was the manager who approved the loan in the first place. Do tell why should we ignore the direct quotes from the manager which totally contradicts you and your twisted view?