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James Maddison

Football Manager

Copy & Paste Merchant
Good to see everyone bodying that Football Manager guy. The guy never watched anything other then YouTube compilations & copy pastes his own pointless essays as if they were gospel

Imagine rating Xhaka & calling Gerrard, Lampard forward going defenders😆
I watch 90 mins match regularly. But when I claim a player is good/not good enough here, I need evidence to prove my point. So a 90 mins match analysis is a good visual way, to prove to you that he is actually a good/not good enough player. However, firstly, I can’t find 90 mins match to post it here, if I could find that on the internet, I will, and I will post it here to show the analysis of the tactics/players. And secondly, even if I could find one, will you actually watch the whole 90 mins? No. That’s why I have posted YouTube videos here.

Rating Xhaka? Where is this this coming from? Tactically, his long pass is useful to stretch the opponent team, and that’s why from Wenger to Arteta he was always starting for us. But his teamwork, short passing, technique on ball are not good. He is not press resistant and can make mistakes from time to time. For a long time, I have been saying we should replace Xhaka with Tonali, Cuisance, Roca....way before they have joined top clubs in Europe.
 
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bingobob

A-M’s Resident Hunskelper
Trusted ⭐

Country: Scotland
I noticed you'd proved my point with the Maguire Bruno comparison
Then you're reading it wrong. Granted Bruno only signed for United in January over the whole season they only scored one more goal the season before. It was the decrease in goals conceded that made the difference (remember the old saying goals win games defences win championships). Both made an impact. Bruno, the offensive player, made the headlines but the underlying numbers defensively meant United no longer needed to score 2, 3 or 4 to win games they just needed 1 goal to win. Hence the saying forwards win games defences win championships.
 

GunnerShy

Well-Known Member
Then you're reading it wrong. Granted Bruno only signed for United in January over the whole season they only scored one more goal the season before. It was the decrease in goals conceded that made the difference (remember the old saying goals win games defences win championships). Both made an impact. Bruno, the offensive player, made the headlines but the underlying numbers defensively meant United no longer needed to score 2, 3 or 4 to win games they just needed 1 goal to win. Hence the saying forwards win games defences win championships.

MAN UTD LEAGUE POINTS​


Stat
Pre-FernandesPost Fernandes
Played249
Wins96
Win %37.5%66.7%
Draws73
Losses80
Points3421
Points Per Game1.412.33


Granted I think this misses a few of the final games (covid and all that). When you actually look at that season you can see the impact clearly. It's actually nothing like you describe.

MAN UTD GOALS FOR + AGAINST​

StatPre-FernandesPost Fernandes
Played249
Goals For3620
Goals Against294
Goal Difference+7+16
Goals Per Game1.52.22

If the decrease in goals made the difference as you say, they'd have been picking up more points ore Fernandes. They were actually going worse than the season before without Maguire to that point (wrt. Winning games which is ultimately the stat that matters).
 

Barry

Definitely Not An Old Poster
I rate Maddison, I'd just be concerned about the numbers as we would be if we spent that same money on Ødegaard. Of the two, I'd much prefer Maddison if I'm honest, as talented as Ødegaard is IMO. It's a gamble but a far safer one IMO.
Exactly, if we were looking at £60m for Ødegaard that would be a big risk as well and questions would be asked. For the same price I would just about be in favour of Maddison I think, just because he's more proven in the league. Think if we get him Ode will be less though, maybe £45m.

It's ok to say that it's not our money etc, and that might work for Man United but I'm not sure some people are appreciating the position our club is in now. We don't have infinite resources and clubs can sink as well as rise. No club is too big to fail and I want our money spent well.

If the strategy this year is to invest massively in proven PL players - and it's a big "if" still at this point - then it's absolutely critical to get it right because it puts debt on the club and won't be a long term sustainable approach. Not saying the club have got this wrong based on the links we've seen so far, apart from the Saliba stuff it seems reasonable. It's all smoke and mirrors until the window closes anyway.
 

OnlyOne

‘Donkeys don’t have a peak, they remain useless’
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
My biggest worry is the injuries and the price tag that could be 70M. Consistency doesn't really bother me as if he is a top player that should be ironed out you'd like to think, obviously when a new manager at Arsenal comes in. With the injuries though, you'd like to think only being in the league will help reduce this impact.
 

SingmeasongSong

Right Sometimes
That's a really good point actually. The Bruno Maguire comparison is far more apt.

With Maguire and without Bruno United were taking 1.41 points per game, on track for 53ish points and a lower finish than the season before.

Once Bruno joined it was 2.33 points per game which saw them finish top 4.

He has had a transformational impact and in many people's opinion saved OGS' job.

One was PL proven, Home grown and cost £80m. Goals conceded dropped but do did points won per game.

The other was from the Portuguese league and cost €55m. Transformed their team literally over night.

If United fans had to choose between them, don't think many would pick Maguire.

I wouldnt want a Maguire for the price of White, still a robbery.
Our defense hasnt been worse than ManU with the current players we have, Maguire is so limited.
 

Football Manager

Copy & Paste Merchant
Exactly, if we were looking at £60m for Ødegaard that would be a big risk as well and questions would be asked. For the same price I would just about be in favour of Maddison I think, just because he's more proven in the league. Think if we get him Ode will be less though, maybe £45m.

It's ok to say that it's not our money etc, and that might work for Man United but I'm not sure some people are appreciating the position our club is in now. We don't have infinite resources and clubs can sink as well as rise. No club is too big to fail and I want our money spent well.

If the strategy this year is to invest massively in proven PL players - and it's a big "if" still at this point - then it's absolutely critical to get it right because it puts debt on the club and won't be a long term sustainable approach. Not saying the club have got this wrong based on the links we've seen so far, apart from the Saliba stuff it seems reasonable. It's all smoke and mirrors until the window closes anyway.
For £60m, why can we not find alternatives (same level players, or better players) at a cheaper price?

Brundt, Aouar... (Buendia, but not available anymore) These are players who are more technically gifted, but at a lower price.

Buying PL proven players means lower risk? I would argue that putting down £60m on one player is a risk itself.
 
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SingmeasongSong

Right Sometimes
Personally would pay the same amount for Pepe again and call it a cheap deal in comparison to Maddison.

Pepe looks to even become the full 70-80m player we wanted him to be, just needs to perform consistently as he recently did AND NOT BE DROPPED.
 

bingobob

A-M’s Resident Hunskelper
Trusted ⭐

Country: Scotland
@GunnerShy I look at that and see exactly my point. Maguire was a vitally important signing. He gave the defensive platform for an attacking midfielder to win games.

We are so far down the rabbit hole that I cant remember what the original point was now. But I'll end it with that. If we sign Maddison he will be a vitally important signing for us also. Just as both Maguire and Bruno have been for United.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
@GunnerShy I look at that and see exactly my point. Maguire was a vitally important signing. He gave the defensive platform for an attacking midfielder to win games.

We are so far down the rabbit hole that I cant remember what the original point was now. But I'll end it with that. If we sign Maddison he will be a vitally important signing for us also. Just as both Maguire and Bruno have been for United.
Maguire’s average, he’s decent positionally and tells colleagues where to be but Utd have to protect their defence with two dms usually. He also made a number of appalling errors last season that would leave AM in utter disbelief.
 

GunnerShy

Well-Known Member
@GunnerShy I look at that and see exactly my point. Maguire was a vitally important signing. He gave the defensive platform for an attacking midfielder to win games.

We are so far down the rabbit hole that I cant remember what the original point was now. But I'll end it with that. If we sign Maddison he will be a vitally important signing for us also. Just as both Maguire and Bruno have been for United.
I don't think that's stats bear it out. But fwiw, I agree Maddison can be a brilliant signing for us. And there is/should be a premium attached because his form has been against the exact opposition we are recruiting him to play against.

The argument is at what value he becomes too expensive. Certainly shouldn't be paying an "English player" premium.

Is there any other clubs than the two Manchester clubs that do that regularly. The worst thing about that premium is it doesn't exist outside the PL. So you'd have to sell to a big 6 club to realise it with sales.
 

Barry

Definitely Not An Old Poster
For £60m, why can we not find alternatives (same level players, or better players) at a cheaper price?

Brundt, Aouar... (Buendia, but not available anymore) These are players who are more technically gifted, but at a lower price.

Buying PL proven players means lower risk? I would argue that putting down £60m on one player is a risk itself.
Exactly, although not Brandt!
 

MikelHadADream

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Think your 2nd paragraph is an important point. Up until this year, you'd look at the best English / British talents, & wonder why they would pick us over others as from the outside we are a club on the slide, with a team filled with foreigners that have underwhelmed the last few seasons, with the odd British player sprinkled in.

Now, we have Smith-Rowe who's joined Saka & Tierney as important first team players. We might have Chambers, Holding Willock, Nelson, Balogun as squad members. If we can add White & Maddison, that's a very decent core of British talent again, & if performance improves to go with it, we could be an attractive destination for guys like Bellingham & Sancho again, instead of being totally out the running for the best of English talent.

Agreed, Bellingham would be a dream signing, hopefully we are in a position to be able to get him in the next few years. Having a strong core of English/British players would only help us in that sense.
 

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