Joe Willock (Out)

Alexs

Well-Known Member
There is certainly a small % of the people here asking us to keep Willock right now, who will be complaining if he doesn’t work out here and we sell for £12m in 2022…

I will be personally calling people out, don’t worry about that.
Please do. I'm with 14 Henry and others on this.

Of course he might fail but a big reason we are so soulless at present is we're signing has-beens or loanees for big money wages who's heart is elsewhere (usually West London). We need to stop doing that first and sell the players we KNOW are rubbish before any decision on Willock.

That's me as a fan. For Willock's own sake he'd probably be far better off leaving.
 

Red London

Anti-Simp Culture
Trusted ✔️
I'm the one in the last few pages saying about maybe keeping him. So obviously you're directing your comment in my direction.

Arteta and Edu don't even have a plan. It's clear as day. Has been from last season and same will happen again.

I for one hope of Willock does go he tears it up. Newcastle fans love him and he seems to have fitted in well there. Just hate seeing my club sell young English talent to replace it with senior citizens who have no care for the club.
I wouldn’t mind getting a buy back clause, but we’d need to lower the sale price to get it.
 

Barry

Well-Known Member
I wouldn’t mind getting a buy back clause, but we’d need to lower the sale price to get it.
A buy back clause with a reduction in the sale price isn't a bad compromise imo though obviously the risk is that he wouldn't want to come back even if he performs. Right now he's hungry and wants to prove a point with Arsenal. It's definitely a tough decision because he isn't elite right now so keeping means another development project. For me it's worth the risk for a season to see how he improves.
 

14Henry

Well-Known Member
A buy back clause with a reduction in the sale price isn't a bad compromise imo though obviously the risk is that he wouldn't want to come back even if he performs. Right now he's hungry and wants to prove a point with Arsenal. It's definitely a tough decision because he isn't elite right now so keeping means another development project. For me it's worth the risk for a season to see how he improves.
There's not many 20-21 year olds who are elite midfielders playing for mid table clubs. People seem to think if he isn't Bellingham or Foden level now he is no good to us. Forgetting that we are levels below those clubs and their objectives.

People want him sold to bring in money but have yet to say a replacement at the same price who immediately and obviously makes us better.
 

Lebron

Member
I watched all of Willocks games for Newcastle. They first played him off the bench as a second striker floating about up front. Then they realised his potential starting deeper and making runs. I was a bit shocked at how composed he was in defensive positions, so good at intercepting and keeping possession and then Bam he would go!
He dribbles in a very direct way without anything fancy but he’s so effective.

We could use a player like this next to a Neves- Partey as a progressive dribbling midfielder. We sure could have used him instead of that crab Ceballos who only moved horizontally.
 

Red London

Anti-Simp Culture
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People want him sold to bring in money but have yet to say a replacement at the same price who immediately and obviously makes us better.
The Athletic just reported Sabitzer is available for 15m euros.

It’s a buyer’s market outside the PL. Leicester signed league winner Soumare for a bit over £20m, he’d usually be £35m+ in a normal market.
 

Impact

Well-Known Member
I like Willock a lot. I think he has great potential and notwithstanding his excellent form at Newcastle has been underrated by Arsenal fans for some time. It's so rare to see a young homegrown English player blessed with his athleticism and technique. The only other I can think of profile-wise is Jude Bellingham.

To preserve his value and to develop his game, Willock needs to play. Given our purported transfer dealings, I think he'll struggle to get sufficient game time here next year. It would be mindless to consciously depreciate a high-value asset when our model is to be self-sustaining.

On that basis, I'd be open to renewing his deal and giving him another year at Newcastle. By then you have reasonable hope that financially football would have recovered some, he has another year of experience (and data to assess his ability) and then you decide either to reintegrate (my preferred option) or sell for £20+ million.
 

Rasmi

Well-Known Member
I like Willock a lot. I think he has great potential and notwithstanding his excellent form at Newcastle has been underrated by Arsenal fans for some time. It's so rare to see a young homegrown English player blessed with his athleticism and technique. The only other I can think of profile-wise is Jude Bellingham.

To preserve his value and to develop his game, Willock needs to play. Given our purported transfer dealings, I think he'll struggle to get sufficient game time here next year. It would be mindless to consciously depreciate a high-value asset when our model is to be self-sustaining.

On that basis, I'd be open to renewing his deal and giving him another year at Newcastle. By then you have reasonable hope that financially football would have recovered some, he has another year of experience (and data to assess his ability) and then you decide either to reintegrate (my preferred option) or sell for £20+ million.
Why would willocks people agree to a new deal and tie themselves to Arsenal and risk missing out on a move to Newcastle and big wages. If he has competent people advising him they would be mad to agree to new deal. Arsenal either sell him or play him.
 

CaseUteinberger

Cazorla (not Carzola ffs)
We've got 15+ players we have to move on. Should Willock be the priority?
This is a very good point. With us needing / wanting to shift quite a few midfield players don’t think Willock needs to be a priority to sell unless a really strong offer comes in.
 

Beksl

Sell All The Youngsters
If willock remotely performs for us next season, his value will increase significantly. Particularly as HG. You don't sell homegrown players unless you actively want them out in this current market, unless you have an excess. No-one is paying £30m for Willock. Just like all the nonsense about £25m for AMN last year when it turns out Wolves never went above 15m, a value he will not have dented with some good displays for WBA. Just as we were never offered 20m for AMN, I wouldn't even contemplate selling him for less than 20m now unless he forces his way out.

I see enough in WIllock to see a player who 'could' be very valuable for this club, and not just in a monetary sense. It all comes down to what Arteta's vision is. and that of EDU etc longer term.

It also comes down to what Willock wants and I suspect, after his stellar loan, he'll want playing time. He won't be a starter here next season for various reasons (tactical and ability wise). If there's concrete interest from clubs I think it would be benefical for both parties if we push for a transfer.
 

14Henry

Well-Known Member
The Athletic just reported Sabitzer is available for 15m euros.

It’s a buyer’s market outside the PL. Leicester signed league winner Soumare for a bit over £20m, he’d usually be £35m+ in a normal market.
If we can sign Sabitzar for 15m I would do it.

I have no issue selling Willock if it means signing quality and guaranteed improvements now.

But if the money is going to be thrown away no. Also I don't want this club over paying players to get them here. If Sabitzer is on say 60k a week where he is now 80-90k is fine. If you have to throw 200k a week at him to sign he's not signing for the right reasons and that's red flag.
 

Alexs

Well-Known Member
Probably not the thread but our transfer policy in general is absurd, weak minded and probably corrupt.

To ease the depression and bring back a bit of feel-good, you buy the better youngish players from the teams below not the worse oldish players from above. The former give a chance of gems and resale value. The latter only really come for the money, sour the place and end up as millstones.
 

14Henry

Well-Known Member
Probably not the thread but our transfer policy in general is absurd, weak minded and probably corrupt.

To ease the depression and bring back a bit of feel-good, you buy the better youngish players from the teams below not the worse oldish players from above. The former give a chance of gems and resale value. The latter only really come for the money, sour the place and end up as millstones.
The problem is that we aren't exactly an attractive prospect for a young player wanting to develop.

Plus it's harder work for Mikel and Edu. It'd much easier find a 27-30 year old who either hasn't got an offer on the table or has fallen out with their current club and aren't wanted or needed.

Everything we do is opportunist. This summer will be no different.
 

Alexs

Well-Known Member
Sure. I'm not talking Grealish, I know he's out of reach, but players like Buendia. If we genuinely can't compete with Villa then we are truly fecked. Don't forget "Arteta is going to be one of the truly great coaches in a few years", or more likely managing Stockport.
 

Mrs Bergkamp

Established Member
Trusted ✔️
I'd keep Willock because if we set up correctly he can help us. There's no point selling him to raise funds and keeping players who will barely get 20 games between them next season. Cedric and Willian are done so there's literally no point counting them as workable assets. We need a player that gives us some hope and gets us on the edge of our seats.
 

Heavy Duty Rom

Well-Known Member
We should be keeping him. Tbh, i like the idea of a 3 man midfield of Partey Willock and Ødegaard. Ødegaard can drop deeper to allow Willock to run off the ball and get into the box for crosses. It might leave us a little easier to counter but then again, Willock does have incredible speed and stamina to be able to get up and down the pitch. It worked when we had a midfield 3 of Arteta Ramsey and Özil and you'd argue all three of Partey Willock and Ødegaard are better athletes. I see it as a very balanced midfield.
 

Barry

Well-Known Member
We should be keeping him. Tbh, i like the idea of a 3 man midfield of Partey Willock and Ødegaard. Ødegaard can drop deeper to allow Willock to run off the ball and get into the box for crosses. It might leave us a little easier to counter but then again, Willock does have incredible speed and stamina to be able to get up and down the pitch. It worked when we had a midfield 3 of Arteta Ramsey and Özil and you'd argue all three of Partey Willock and Ødegaard are better athletes. I see it as a very balanced midfield.
Slight problem with a flat midfield three of Partey, Willock, Ødegaard is that they are all naturally right sided players. I agree this is the way we could be thinking though if Willock stays and ESR or even Saka potentially could stay left of Partey and add creativity to the three. One of the things I like about this formation is that it should see more game time for Martinelli as a left sided winger with one of Saka/ESR behind.

If we bring in Ødegaard then he could be used as an alternative to Willock on the right or further forward as a 10 when we need to mix it up with a double pivot for tougher games.

You could still bring in a Bissouma or Neves type player to back up or play with Partey depending on the opposition. If we do sell Willock, then Sabitzer could be a good pickup to perform a similar role on the right of a midfield 3
 

Sebastes

Statbomb Merchant
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Slight problem with a flat midfield three of Partey, Willock, Ødegaard is that they are all naturally right sided players. I agree this is the way we could be thinking though if Willock stays and ESR or even Saka potentially could stay left of Partey and add creativity to the three. One of the things I like about this formation is that it should see more game time for Martinelli as a left sided winger with one of Saka/ESR behind.

If we bring in Ødegaard then he could be used as an alternative to Willock on the right or further forward as a 10 when we need to mix it up with a double pivot for tougher games.

You could still bring in a Bissouma or Neves type player to back up or play with Partey depending on the opposition. If we do sell Willock, then Sabitzer could be a good pickup to perform a similar role on the right of a midfield 3
This is one of the main reasons I like Sabitzer and to some extent Aouar. Especially in a mid three. Both I feel are more natural or comfortable as LCM in a three, or in Sabitzer's case as the left sided player in a double pivot. Sabitzer started out as CAM/RW but when moved to midfield he's played as the left cm in Leipzig's 3-4-3 (whenever I've seen them anyways)

Buendia, Ödegaard and Pereira are all right sided players that would force Partey to play on the left and while one would think it shouldn't be too much of an issue for an experienced player he's played on the right side for all/most of his career, even deputing as rb.
 

Barry

Well-Known Member
Yeah definitely agree with this. Hadn't realised that Sabitzer plays to the left of a midfield 3 - Whoscored has him mostly centre or right for some reason. He looks like a really versatile player, not exceptional maybe but useful across the squad as depth and quality / experience
 

14Henry

Well-Known Member
Yeah definitely agree with this. Hadn't realised that Sabitzer plays to the left of a midfield 3 - Whoscored has him mostly centre or right for some reason. He looks like a really versatile player, not exceptional maybe but useful across the squad as depth and quality / experience
If Sabitzer doesn't come into the first 11 and improve it it's a waste of money. With one game a week we needed to improve improve starting 11. Drastically. We have enough on the bench to fill squad positions.
 
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