OFFICIAL Joe Willock (Out)

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Arsenal1508

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As I mentioned, move him to striker. He can score goals. Judge him on his goalscoring. Plus he has midfield skills.

He is young enough to change his position.
 

Macho

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Willock will be more Iwobi than Gnabry. Now is the time to sell.
None of us know this, but the dismissive nature of this post was funny.

I also don't feel like this is a Gnabry situation deep down, but knowing the guys staying instead is what makes this hard to take.

It is clear Arteta is in no mood to coach and it is easier for him to get Elneny to do what he wants instead of have Willock grow into it so, yeah he has to go sadly.
 

truth_hurts

Rob Balding Superfan
None of us know this, but the dismissive nature of this post was funny.

I also don't feel like this is a Gnabry situation deep down, but knowing the guys staying instead is what makes this hard to take. It is clear Arteta is in no mood to coach so, yeah he has to go sadly.

It breaks me how much our fanbase overrate our youngsters.

Nobody would be happy with him starting vs City or Chelsea yet so many seem prepared to turn down decent money offers or mention him in the same sentence as Gnabry.

Plenty of our moronic (harsh but it's how I feel) fans were comparing Nelson to Sancho, advocating Balogun to start over Auba at times last season and turned their noses up at Sterling when a swap for Sanchez seemed plausible.

We don't deserve nice things.

Let us start the season with Willock and ESR in midfield.

ESR is better than Maddison and Willock has Gnabry potential. Should push us towards top 4 easily.
 
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Mrs Bergkamp

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It breaks me how much our fanbase overrate our youngsters.

Nobody would be happy with him starting vs City or Chelsea yet so many seem prepared to turn down decent money offers or mention him in the same sentence as Gnabry.

Plenty of our moronic (harsh but it's how I feel) fans were comparing Nelson to Sancho, advocating Balogun to start over Auba at times last season and turned their noses up at Sterling when a swap for Sanchez seemed plausible.

We don't deserve nice things.

Let us start the season with Willock and ESR in midfield.

ESR is better than Maddison and Willock has Gnabry potential. Should push us towards top 4 easily.
For me, it's not so much the over rating of youngsters but the persistence with poor senior players. I dont understand why Willock can't take Elneny's place. Elneny is heralded as a niche player who can follow Arteta's instructions. Therefore Willock is surplus. Elneny is a last resort player. Surely we want better or something different. We can sell Wiillock, Nelson and AMN and put that £50m towards Maddison. With his and Partey's injury records, we'll soon see Xhaka and Elneny in a slow, ponderous, sideways,easily pressed non vertical midfield. Should Lokonga not be able to carry those two, he'll be under pressure. You get rid of the players you won't miss and see what's left. You don't keep and extend rubbish for their experience, ability to follow orders and fail again and again. We waste money so why not try make a rated player work for us?
 

Mrs Bergkamp

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Hopefully this is true. Would be a sign of us finally making the right decisions as a club without sentimentality like we showed in the case of AMN last season.
Keeping AMN wasn't sentiment. It was Arteta being clueless and trying to keep the fans onside. After Emi, I bet he's scared of getting it so wrong again.
 

Macho

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Elneny is heralded as a niche player who can follow Arteta's instructions. Therefore Willock is surplus.
The only reason I say this is because this is obviously going to be another AMN situation. He's clearly capable but he was not used and when he was used, it was incorrectly at LWB. I see the same for Willock at #10 or right wing.

I'd rather see players I like leave the club and play, instead of played sparingly or out of position by an inadept manager too narrow minded to use God given talents at his disposal.

It's not very nice repeatedly seeing what the fanbase has to say about a player you like being used wrongly, or at all - whilst the manager rarely gets the blame. Willock deserves better he should go.

A club worth it's salt would sell Willock to Newcastle for cheap and insert a buy back clause - a club like Newcastle trying to avoid relegation on a budget would take it. Instead we either hoard unnecessarily or slap top dollar prices on fringe/ questionable players.

Apologies for long post.
 

truth_hurts

Rob Balding Superfan
For me, it's not so much the over rating of youngsters but the persistence with poor senior players. I dont understand why Willock can't take Elneny's place. Elneny is heralded as a niche player who can follow Arteta's instructions. Therefore Willock is surplus. Elneny is a last resort player. Surely we want better or something different. We can sell Wiillock, Nelson and AMN and put that £50m towards Maddison. With his and Partey's injury records, we'll soon see Xhaka and Elneny in a slow, ponderous, sideways,easily pressed non vertical midfield. Should Lokonga not be able to carry those two, he'll be under pressure. You get rid of the players you won't miss and see what's left. You don't keep and extend rubbish for their experience, ability to follow orders and fail again and again. We waste money so why not try make a rated player work for us?

El Nenny and Willock are completely independent of each other though- they have different skill sets, play different roles and are at different stages of their career. El Nenny is simply tasked with pressing and retaining the ball- he is disciplined and does a decent enough job. Willock wouldn't be happy with being 4th choice nor would he show his best form at the base of the midfield or as an emergency cb.

Both players should be sold unless you advocate giving Willock the minutes of ESR or seeing Willock as reason enough to not attempt to sign a Maddison, Ødegaard or Aoaur.
 

MutableEarth

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The only reason I say this is because this is obviously going to be another AMN situation. He's clearly capable but he was not used and when he was used, it was incorrectly at LWB. I see the same for Willock at #10 or right wing.

I'd rather see players I like leave the club and play, instead of played sparingly or out of position by an inadept manager too narrow minded to use God given talents at his disposal.

It's not very nice repeatedly seeing what the fanbase has to say about a player you like being used wrongly, or at all - whilst the manager rarely gets the blame. Willock deserves better he should go.

A club worth it's salt would sell Willock to Newcastle for cheap and insert a buy back clause - a club like Newcastle trying to avoid relegation on a budget would take it. Instead we either hoard unnecessarily or slap top dollar prices on fringe/ questionable players.

Apologies for long post.
To put it concisely, if our first team wasn't a piece of ****, most people wouldn't cry for the younger players to play all the time. They're the only legitimately good thing about the club right now. Until our recruitment actually improves significantly and we get rid of these guys, nothing will change in that regard. Selling our young talents will only further ensure that nothing improves. But I'm sleep, the club are gonna do it anyway, so good luck everybody.
 

blrgooner

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El Nenny and Willock are completely independent of each other though- they have different skill sets, play different roles and are at different stages of their career. El Nenny is simply tasked with pressing and retaining the ball- he is disciplined and does a decent enough job. Willock wouldn't be happy with being 4th choice nor would he show his best form at the base of the midfield or as an emergency cb.

Both players should be sold unless you advocate giving Willock the minutes of ESR or seeing Willock as reason enough to not attempt to sign a Maddison, Ødegaard or Aoaur.

Exactly. Playing Willock in Elneny`s place would just be a disaster for the club and the player. Playing Willock there is a waste of Willock`s skillsets and killing his own development.
 

Mrs Bergkamp

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The only reason I say this is because this is obviously going to be another AMN situation. He's clearly capable but he was not used and when he was used, it was incorrectly at LWB. I see the same for Willock at #10 or right wing.

I'd rather see players I like leave the club and play, instead of played sparingly or out of position by an inadept manager too narrow minded to use God given talents at his disposal.

It's not very nice repeatedly seeing what the fanbase has to say about a player you like being used wrongly, or at all - whilst the manager rarely gets the blame. Willock deserves better he should go.

A club worth it's salt would sell Willock to Newcastle for cheap and insert a buy back clause - a club like Newcastle trying to avoid relegation on a budget would take it. Instead we either hoard unnecessarily or slap top dollar prices on fringe/ questionable players.

Apologies for long post.
FWIW, I like the long post. I'm all for holding on to these players because I can't see Arteta lasting beyond Christmas if he doesn't perform miracles. I live in hope of a Hale End era under a manager that puts the interests of the club first. I'm pragmatic enough to let Nketiah, AMN and Nelson go to see a triumvirate of Saka, ESR and Willock succeed and help us rise again. I just wish someone would force Arteta's hand or force him to resign. This feels like a big moment for our graduates and the club.
 

The_Playmaker

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I just don't know why we are thinking of selling this guy. He looks like he has really come on physically and if we were to move to a 4 3 3 is the perfect players for the third midfielder in that he is box to box and proven he can score goals arriving late. He isn't the kind of talent you sacrifice when you are handing out contacts to Xhaka and keeping Elneny.

He deserve a chance.
 

Macho

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I just wish someone would force Arteta's hand or force him to resign. This feels like a big moment for our graduates and the club.
This is where Edu and/or our current hierarchy structure has absolutely failed us.

I don't know what's worse, Edu and Arteta having the same ideas or Edu not being in a position to force certain issues.

Can Edu reign Arteta in when he wants a Willian? or sack him if need be? It's a shambles.
 

AbouCuéllar

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I just don't know why we are thinking of selling this guy. He looks like he has really come on physically and if we were to move to a 4 3 3 is the perfect players for the third midfielder in that he is box to box and proven he can score goals arriving late. He isn't the kind of talent you sacrifice when you are handing out contacts to Xhaka and keeping Elneny.

He deserve a chance.
It's not rocket science. He's a central midfielder who struggles to do many central midfielder things at a mid-table level, much less top 4 level, which is our ambition.

Reminds me a bit of last season when the forum had a breakdown at the AMN possible sale and couldn't understand it at all. Same thing. Wasn't rocket science at all but very clear to understand.
 

Mrs Bergkamp

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El Nenny and Willock are completely independent of each other though- they have different skill sets, play different roles and are at different stages of their career. El Nenny is simply tasked with pressing and retaining the ball- he is disciplined and does a decent enough job. Willock wouldn't be happy with being 4th choice nor would he show his best form at the base of the midfield or as an emergency cb.

Both players should be sold unless you advocate giving Willock the minutes of ESR or seeing Willock as reason enough to not attempt to sign a Maddison, Ødegaard or Aoaur.
I'm happy you've stated Elneny's role. I am sure Willock can press, retain the ball and do more than pass it sideways. I just feel that there is a place for him especially when we face a low block opponent. We have Elneny pressing quite poorly (Utd aside) and picking up lose balls. We have Xhaka setting the slowest tempo ever with the occasional long ball. In Partey, we have a complete midfielder. Why not add another all rounder to the mix even if we have to reign him in a bit? Of course I want a creative midfielder but he will do better with Partey and another more agile and progressive player. We have cup comps and Partey has AFCON. No reason why we can't get a creative and let Lokonga and Willock share minutes. It's Elneny and Xhaka that we need off the pitch. I look back to Anfield 89 and recall Davis, Rocky and Richardson. 1998 Vieira and Petit. Later Vieira and Gilberto Silva. All combos were well rounded players who could do a bit of everything. Nobody got given a job or two to perform to just a decent level. The midfield needs ripping up. I'd rather see new midfielder,Lokonga/Partey/Willock in a 3 than see Maddison, Lokonga and Xhaka/Elneny. The latter two will only hinder. Elneny is literally pointless. Might as well throw Chambets in midfield than keep him.
 

Mrs Bergkamp

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Maybe. That's quite an invested reading with little to back it up but whatever you attribute to, it was a mistake.
Arteta threw quite a few players under the bus last season. He's ruthless with those he has no time for. I don't think he has a sentimental bone in his body but yes, AMN made a mistake believing anything he said. Not sure Arteta even believed himself tbh.
 

MutableEarth

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I'm happy you've stated Elneny's role. I am sure Willock can press, retain the ball and do more than pass it sideways.
Willock's already done it as a 17-18 year old in his debut season under Wenger. He even did it better than Elneny did because he also completed most of his dribbles too. Never forget the Forest game we lost in the FA Cup, when Elneny looked like a lost puppy and Willock was the one holding his hand.

People have forgotten clearly, but let the agendas run.
 

samspade

Active Member
I was deffo anti Willock as I don’t like a lot of what he’s done for us in the league for a while. But If there’s one thing you have to pay attention to in football it’s when people bang goals. His pace, height, strength and finishing skills are clearly a huge issue for teams, but he’s not naturally adept at everything else. I think it’s possible he becomes a special player but I think he’s got a hell of a lot to work on. It could be a long time coming and I don’t know whether it should be here.
 
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