Joe Willock: The True Joerdie

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MutableEarth

Reiss' Dad
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Some Arsenal fans really want to get rid of Willock lol. I don't get it, they act like the guy can't complete a pass to save his life. If most people that claimed to be Arsenal fans watched 21 year old Partey, they want call him a headless chicken too. Arteta likes Azeez, so he'll def get a chance to impress.
We'll have to see. I'm normally very optimistic about these things but the way we're going into this season has me very suspicious of how we're actually gonna look. I hold out hope that I'll be extremely wrong!
 

Trill

Not Trilly
Now that we've tied Xhaka to an extension, Elneny set to stay and Lokonga impressing, let's sell Willock. He's obviously not talented enough, can't pass, can't tackle - all he can do is score goals, and he won't be able to do that for Arsenal because everyone parks the bus, and he's not smart or technical enough to get chances against that kind of set-up. So let's sell for £20m and get mad when he goes to a better team for twice the money in the next couple seasons and shows his true level, while we continue to give contracts to Xhaka and Elneny at the expense of younger, more dynamic players that we already have on the books.

While we're at it, let's sell Azeez too. We won't be needing him. We'll just rely on Partey and then Lokonga to carry the entire energy of the midfield. Patino should watch himself too. Good stuff from Edu and Arteta! :thumbsup:
Tbf mate, if it was up to you our u23 team would be our first team.

Although I do agree considering how light we are in midfield it would be silly to let Willock go. I have a feeling the goals will keep flowing for him (hell, he basically scored against Chelsea the other day) If anything we could get a better fee next summer.

Also everyone bangs on about him being **** on the ball, but with the way we play would we really miss out on Elneny's eagle eyed through ball's back to our defender's? We were crying out for some well timed runs into the box last season.

If we had some certified baller's in midfield it would make more sense to sell him, but we came ****ing eighth last season, so the player's we relied on to achieve that can't be that great.

Will the 20 mil we get for him now really allow us to sign the player that absolutely transforms the team? Hopefully I spose
 

GoonerJay24

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Tbf mate, if it was up to you our u23 team would be our first team.

Although I do agree considering how light we are in midfield it would be silly to let Willock go. I have a feeling the goals will keep flowing for him (hell, he basically scored against Chelsea the other day) If anything we could get a better fee next summer.

Also everyone bangs on about him being **** on the ball, but with the way we play would we really miss out on Elneny's eagle eyed through ball's back to our defender's? We were crying out for some well timed runs into the box last season.

If we had some certified baller's in midfield it would make more sense to sell him, but we came ****ing eighth last season, so the player's we relied on to achieve that can't be that great.

Will the 20 mil we get for him now really allow us to sign the player that absolutely transforms the team? Hopefully I spose

You think all Moh does is pass backwards? Nothing for support play, awareness and workrate?

Anyway Willock should be starting alongside Partey or Xhaka to learn the role as an 8. He'll obviously make mistakes but worth it long term due to his talent.
 

Maybe

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Now that we've tied Xhaka to an extension, Elneny set to stay and Lokonga impressing, let's sell Willock. He's obviously not talented enough, can't pass, can't tackle - all he can do is score goals, and he won't be able to do that for Arsenal because everyone parks the bus, and he's not smart or technical enough to get chances against that kind of set-up. So let's sell for £20m and get mad when he goes to a better team for twice the money in the next couple seasons and shows his true level, while we continue to give contracts to Xhaka and Elneny at the expense of younger, more dynamic players that we already have on the books.

While we're at it, let's sell Azeez too. We won't be needing him. We'll just rely on Partey and then Lokonga to carry the entire energy of the midfield. Patino should watch himself too. Good stuff from Edu and Arteta! :thumbsup:
Thing Musah did the right thing in the end, Azeez probably regretting already he didn't take the same path. Wonder what's Balogun thinking now after he was fooled into signing a new deal :lol:
 

amigo

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Now that we've tied Xhaka to an extension, Elneny set to stay and Lokonga impressing, let's sell Willock. He's obviously not talented enough, can't pass, can't tackle - all he can do is score goals, and he won't be able to do that for Arsenal because everyone parks the bus, and he's not smart or technical enough to get chances against that kind of set-up. So let's sell for £20m and get mad when he goes to a better team for twice the money in the next couple seasons and shows his true level, while we continue to give contracts to Xhaka and Elneny at the expense of younger, more dynamic players that we already have on the books.

While we're at it, let's sell Azeez too. We won't be needing him. We'll just rely on Partey and then Lokonga to carry the entire energy of the midfield. Patino should watch himself too. Good stuff from Edu and Arteta! :thumbsup:
All he can do is score goals? Isn’t that how you win football games? Oh I see, you’re winding us up..😄
 

Trill

Not Trilly
You think all Moh does is pass backwards? Nothing for support play, awareness and workrate?

Anyway Willock should be starting alongside Partey or Xhaka to learn the role as an 8. He'll obviously make mistakes but worth it long term due to his talent.
He's a hard worker I'll give him that. And yes as you said provides a body in midfield. I actually really like him as a squad player. Doesn't kick up a fuss, knows his limitations. I just don't think we should be in the position where he's starting the first Prem game. And unless we can get a player that will transform the team by selling Willock I'd like to see him getting games instead.
 

Barry

Well-Known Member
Does anybody genuinely see Willock as a starter here at Arsenal now or in the future?

If so in which role?

It depends if and how he develops but yes I think he has that potential. He could start at 8 or 6 in our midfield. Basically he's a box to box player. Next to a Partey or Bissouma type.

He's very young for a midfielder and has some great attributes, alongside some shakier ones. I keep saying it, but Lampard never hit more than 10 goals until he was 25. Not saying Willock's that level, but I just don't think we know yet. It's too early to say and I think he's good enough next season to get significant games and minutes for us (3rd/4th choice)
 

GoonerJay24

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He's a hard worker I'll give him that. And yes as you said provides a body in midfield. I actually really like him as a squad player. Doesn't kick up a fuss, knows his limitations. I just don't think we should be in the position where he's starting the first Prem game. And unless we can get a player that will transform the team by selling Willock I'd like to see him getting games instead.

I agree that Elneny shouldn't be starting for us consistently, but the rhetoric towards him baffles me. Fans speak as if he's a really poor championship standard player. When analysing matches you'll see his movement in midfield and ability to create angles is surprisingly better than many Premier League midfielders. Added to that the great engine, ball retention, good technique and general attitude.

His lack of forward passing is frustrating and again I dont think he should be a starter. But as a backup player he's sufficient. I can't understand the negativity affiliated with him. I'm sorry, but if he was Brtish or European he'd be respected much more. Thats just my opinion.
 

Macho

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Does anybody genuinely see Willock as a starter here at Arsenal now or in the future?

If so in which role?
Not under Arteta. I was one of his early supporters but the tears are far overblown.

Ideally he'd play the roles Ramsey played, but even then Ramsey was far more advanced in his development at this stage love him or hate him.

Elneny gets way too much stick around here for what he is as well. So what if he starts the first match of the season? We've had all sorts of jokers start the first game of the season going back a decade - not only is it insignificant, but that's not Elneny's fault.
 

Barry

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Not under Arteta. I was one of his early supporters but the tears are far overblown.

Ideally he'd play the roles Ramsey played, but even then Ramsey was far more advanced in his development at this stage love him or hate him.

Elneny gets way too much stick around here for what he is as well. So what if he starts the first match of the season? We've had all sorts of jokers start the first game of the season going back a decade - not only is it insignificant, but that's not Elneny's fault.
This is Ramsey and Willock at the same age. I like Ramsey by the way, fantastic player for Arsenal and far more technical ability than Willock, but Willock has some strengths as well including his dribbling and ball carrying. Look at the difference in output with half the appearances as well. It doesn't even show Willock's three EL goals in the overall tally.

Ramsey -

Ramsey.jpg

Willock -

Willock.jpg
 

drippin

Well-Known Member
I agree that Elneny shouldn't be starting for us consistently, but the rhetoric towards him baffles me. Fans speak as if he's a really poor championship standard player. When analysing matches you'll see his movement in midfield and ability to create angles is surprisingly better than many Premier League midfielders. Added to that the great engine, ball retention, good technique and general attitude.

His lack of forward passing is frustrating and again I dont think he should be a starter. But as a backup player he's sufficient. I can't understand the negativity affiliated with him. I'm sorry, but if he was Brtish or European he'd be respected much more. Thats just my opinion.
I have been fine with Elneny thus far as we have had other areas to upgrade in earlier years. Good worker.

I have also said he shouldn't be a squad player here anymore. He can't attack apart from some miracle performance and has made some bad mistakes after his purple patch.

We need progressive play from from midfield. Xhaka for example has double the progressive passes. With Partey getting injured, our squad players need to be of better quality. Elneny starting even a few EPL games ruins our season easily as we can't score easily then and winning is harder.

And lol at your racism theory. Can you tell how I like Partey very much but not Elneny anymore (apart from his personality and work effort)?
 
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Macho

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This is Ramsey and Willock at the same age. I like Ramsey by the way, fantastic player for Arsenal and far more technical ability than Willock, but Willock has some strengths as well including his dribbling and ball carrying. Look at the difference in output with half the appearances as well. It doesn't even show Willock's three EL goals in the overall tally.

Ramsey -

View attachment 3921

Willock -

View attachment 3922
This doesn't disprove anything I said though, Ramsey was in the champions league. The bulk of Willocks experience at top level came last season for Newcastle and Europa group stages.

Ramsey was a starter for us, Willock has never been a starter for us - this is apples and oranges.
I agree though, Willock has the makings to be a far more potent player but Arteta isn't in the mood to explore that - so it is what it is. I like him so much that I would rather see him elsewhere like some of my other favourite players here. Watching Willock become AMN or Reiss would annoy me far more.

A lot of Willocks stock around here is born out of frustration and annoyance for Xhaka and/or Elneny as well.
 

Barry

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I think it was the "far more advanced in his development" comment. Yes in many aspects of his game Ramsey was more advanced, but we have just seen a breakout season from Willock which eclipsed what Ramsey was doing at the time. It may be flash in the pan unsustainable as many people think. If it is not though...

I agree with what you are saying though - if he is not going to be played then we obviously need to sell and cash in. I think this is one of those situations where patience and gambling on the talent is the better option. (Or a buy back clause for some insurance)
 

Macho

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I think it was the "far more advanced in his development" comment. Yes in many aspects of his game Ramsey was more advanced, but we have just seen a breakout season from Willock which eclipsed what Ramsey was doing at the time.
Fair enough, but I don't see how that could be refuted, Ramsey had far more appearances (until Willock @ Newcastle), far more responsibility, around better players, at a higher level, under an experienced manager famed for developing younger players...

I could go on and on - but Ramsey was a seasoned pro early in his career. He had already been choke-slammed by VP behind the scenes and had to restart his career from serious setbacks before he even reached 20... He makes Willock who has mostly been a reserve player look like a baby in some regards.

If we're talking about talent and raw ability - or physical gifts then yeah I could see why you'd want to pick apart what I said, that's admittedly a different convo. The Ramsey comparison wasn't even my main point anyways - it was more I'd like to see Willock either in a pivot or the more adventurous CM which is never happening under Arteta.
 

GoonerJay24

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I have been fine with Elneny thus far as we have had other areas to upgrade in earlier years. Good worker.

I have also said he shouldn't be a squad player here anymore. He can't attack apart from some miracle performance and has made some bad mistakes after his purple patch.

We need progressive play from from midfield. Xhaka for example has double the progressive passes. With Partey getting injured, our squad players need to be of better quality. Elneny starting even a few EPL games ruins our season easily as we can't score easily then and winning is harder.

And lol at your racism theory. Can you tell how I like Partey very much but not Elneny anymore (apart from his personality and work effort)?

I think he's a good squad player whose liked by teammates and coaching staff. His role is not attacking midfielder thus his contributions in attack aren't direct. In possession his spatial rotation awareness and movement supports superbly supports the build up. He has made some mistakes lately but every player does.

Obviously we'd prefer better quality to instill more midfield dynamism hence why I'd prefer Willock in the opening matches. However, when Elneny started games last season the team looked balanced and won some important matches, i.e. United and Chelsea. His poor form came after he caught covid. Arteta constantly played him due to Parteys injuries and Xhakas suspension last December.

Not exactly racism; but cultural bias. Ultimately all midfielders like Elneny tend to be unapparciated as their contributions aren't so apparent compared to midfield generals. For instance; Partey, Viera and Lampard. With these players it's obvious what they produce. Others like Arteta, Carrick and Marchisio aren't well understood, especially in England. Its football culture differences.

I do sense though that if Elneny was English or European and regularly came out to speak in interviews, he'd be respected more. Again this is football and everyone has their views.
 

drippin

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I think he's a good squad player whose liked by teammates and coaching staff. His role is not attacking midfielder thus his contributions in attack aren't direct. In possession his spatial rotation awareness and movement supports superbly supports the build up. He has made some mistakes lately but every player does.

Obviously we'd prefer better quality to instill more midfield dynamism hence why I'd prefer Willock in the opening matches. However, when Elneny started games last season the team looked balanced and won some important matches, i.e. United and Chelsea. His poor form came after he caught covid. Arteta constantly played him due to Parteys injuries and Xhakas suspension last December.

Not exactly racism; but cultural bias. Ultimately all midfielders like Elneny tend to be unapparciated as their contributions aren't so apparent compared to midfield generals. For instance; Partey, Viera and Lampard. With these players it's obvious what they produce. Others like Arteta, Carrick and Marchisio aren't well understood, especially in England. Its football culture differences.

I do sense though that if Elneny was English or European and regularly came out to speak in interviews, he'd be respected more. Again this is football and everyone has their views.
Of course he is not AMF. Neither is Partey or even Xhaka, who bring more to the attack.

Elneny is nowhere the all-round play of Carrick, Marchisio or even Arteta. He just works hard and is good at defensive part of the game.

These would be awesome squad players even in older age. Just like Xhaka should be for us.

No matter if racism or cultural bias accusation, it's very silly and lazy thinking to me as to why people want to upgrade Elneny. I have heard it before here and laughed then also.
 

GoonerJay24

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Of course he is not AMF. Neither is Partey or even Xhaka, who bring more to the attack.

Elneny is nowhere the all-round play of Carrick, Marchisio or even Arteta. He just works hard and is good at defensive part of the game.

These would be awesome squad players even in older age. Just like Xhaka should be for us.

No matter if racism or cultural bias accusation, it's very silly and lazy thinking to me as to why people want to upgrade Elneny. I have heard it before here and laughed then also.
So why'd you mention his limited attacking game?

Not as great as the abovementioned but is of a similar ilk especially in terms of build up positioning. Its funny as I actually criticize his defensive game a lot.

Well given our current standing Elnenys a good third or fourth backup I'd say.

Its neither lazy or silly. Nowadays we have to raise better awareness of these things especially in professional sport.
 

drippin

Well-Known Member
So why'd you mention his limited attacking game?

Not as great as the abovementioned but is of a similar ilk especially in terms of build up positioning. Its funny as I actually criticize his defensive game a lot.

Well given our current standing Elnenys a good third or fourth backup I'd say.

Its neither lazy or silly. Nowadays we have to raise better awareness of these things especially in professional sport.
Is it that hard to understand? Because we can't have so limited and average players starting EPL games at all. We need progressive capabilities from every midfielder.

Elneny 3rd backup. :facepalm: What the hell am I reading. Our views are so far apart that it's seems of no use to continue this discussion.

So you'd be fine with Partey, Xhaka, Sambi, Willock, Elneny and Azeez this season for example? 10th place here we come again unless some miracles happen and Partey is fit all season.
 
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