SuperGoon
Debbie Downer
Country: Ireland
Player:Saka
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José Mourinho: See Mou Later
- Thread starter Jury
- Start date
- Replies 5,386
- Views 643,652
Country: Ireland
Player:Saka
Country: England
Player:Saliba
P*sses me off that Mourinho and Gary Neville are whinging to the press that they haven’t spent enough to win the league. When last year their squad cost was nearly double ours and 3 or 4 times more than some of the lower clubs.
I know they understand that expensive ready made players bought well can win you titles, but he’s spending 2nd, and managers can perform above their squad cost like Wenger did for years and Pochettino is doing now.
Get on with it man.
I know they understand that expensive ready made players bought well can win you titles, but he’s spending 2nd, and managers can perform above their squad cost like Wenger did for years and Pochettino is doing now.
Get on with it man.
Mark Tobias
Mr. Agreeable
Driving me mad too. For years United fans were banging on about how City are ruining the league with money. Basically stating indirectly that it is okay if they do it. Of course they only moan in seasons when they're not winning anything.
Country: England
Player:Saliba
Like every year since 2012/13
Mark Tobias
Mr. Agreeable
Basically yes. Also worth noting they outspent the league every year Wenger was in charge until the Russian and the Oil oligarchs came to ruin their party. Fergie was a top top amanger and I hat eto seem like I'm detracting but his trophy haul was greatly helped by the fact that they spent much more than anyone else.Like every year since 2012/13
rich 1990
Not A Big Believer In Diversity
Don't encourage him.
Mark Tobias
Mr. Agreeable
Ah come on Rich. Surely you have to admit the forum is a bit bland now that there is only 'room for football fans and Granit Xhaka fanboys to debate.
He usually perform best the 2nd season and falls the 3rd. Unlucky for his 81-point season that Guardiola exists.
So this year he is on the track as usual.
Country: Scotland
You have to consider Ferguson's record previously as well when he won the Scottish league with Aberdeen (last team outside of Celtic or Rangers to win it) and also won the Cup Winners Cup with Aberdeen when it was considered a prestigious trophy (beat Bayern Munich on route and Real Madrid in the final)
Also the money Ferguson spent he earned. He developed United into a global brand and competed through out his tenure against high spending challengers (Blackburn, Newcastle, us , Leeds, Chelsea and City)
I've seen this film before
lamby22
It's Not Lupus
Country: Scotland
Love this film. It usually drags on for a while but is entertaining to most of us. Has such a superb ending though. Would give it 10/10
Mo Britain
Doom Monger
I don't think anyone doubts Ferguson's qualities as a manager but his trophy haul was distorted by Manu's financial and other (favouritism in the media dating back to the Munich disaster) clout.
None of the high-spending challengers until the late part of his reign spent enough consistently to create a dynasty. His last title was gifted to him by Arsenal. He just about held his own against Chelsea but wouldn't have been able to cope with the huge influx of City money.
His sides were built to dominate English football, while he did have some success in Europe it was nowhere near what you would have expected from their dominance in England and their financial clout. perhaps foreign refs were less easily swayed?
Country: Scotland
The financial clout that he created. Consider the fact in the 1990s Old Trafford capacity was around 44k and when Ferguson left it was around 75k. That's a bigger increase in the one Arsène gave us with a new stadium. Ferguson earned every penny he spent just like Wenger and I don't think anyone should begrudge either from spending the money they earned the right to spend. By doing things the way some view proper.
Where Ferguson had the advantage was he done it and the very start of the Epl. As the league became global United and the Premier League went hand in hand and ultimately that helped facilitate their growth but that's no more situational than Wenger inheriting the back 5.
As for the refs. I don't buy that. If there was institutional bias how did Liverpool dominate in the 80s? I have always been of the opinion that top teams get the benefit of the doubt. Sol Campbell didn't foul Anichebe because Campbell is a top defender and Anichebe is a poor striker but flip the same tackle Henry was fouled by Bramble because Henry is a top striker and Brambell is a poor defender. That is situational bias. Throw in the age profile of most refs at the time (what decade were they born and who doninated) they would have grown up supporting Forest, Liverpool, Everton all of which lets be honest are hardly sympathetic to United.
His European record isn't great but even still in context is still fantastic. He was won major European honours with two clubs one of which is Aberdeen. The on going debate about pep and money yet he has only won European silverware with Barcelona. Even Mourinhos record with Porto is eclipsed simply because Porto are one of the biggest clubs in Portugal. Aberdeen were not.
When Ferguson arrived at United they had only won the European cup once. When he left they had won three. He trebled the tally. He also reached another final and lost against arguably the best club side ever. In comparison we have never won the European Cup and in Wengers tenure never won it and only reached one final. During Ferguson's entire time at United only two other teams won the CL, Chelsea and Liverpool. He levelled the rest of the league combined and when you consider in later years 4 English teams were involved in the group stages in itself makes that achievement all the more remarkable.
I'm sure Ferguson like Wenger will look back and wish they done more in Europe. English football should have done better. Whether that's down to the style of football, no winter break, the difference in refs (being more strict) or the overall competition in England becoming tougher is hard to say. But I wouldn't say it's because the managers were not good enough .
Mo Britain
Doom Monger
I was really referring to his record in Europe with Manu. Winning the Cup Winners' Cup with Aberdeen (a bit like Mourinho winning the CL with Porto) may well be his greatest achievement.
The Premier League, as has been said earlier in this thread, was not stuffed with foreign internationals in his first 15 years or so, it would not have been unreasonable to expect a strong team which was walking away with many league titles to have been more successful in Europe.
Has to be said that Liverpool are second in the media darling stakes but they did have a seriously good team in the late seventies through to the late eighties. And Manu were not at their wealthiest then. Liverpool did in Europe what Manu should have done.
The Premier League, as has been said earlier in this thread, was not stuffed with foreign internationals in his first 15 years or so, it would not have been unreasonable to expect a strong team which was walking away with many league titles to have been more successful in Europe.
Has to be said that Liverpool are second in the media darling stakes but they did have a seriously good team in the late seventies through to the late eighties. And Manu were not at their wealthiest then. Liverpool did in Europe what Manu should have done.
Why English football should have done better when Ronaldo da Lima, Zidane, Messi, Rivaldo... would not come here? I am talking about the best players who won Ballon d'Or.
Admit it, the best players in the world do not prefer English football is a major factor. Even Ronaldo and Owen grew up their reputation here and left is also a proof.
Country: Scotland
Possibly, like I said United should have done more but they've still done as much as every other English team combined. The question isn't why did United not do more but why has English football not done more? Since United won it in 1999 only two other English teams have won it. That's 3 teams in what will be 20 years this year. It's a collective failing.
Mo Britain
Doom Monger
Yes. Especially when you consider how dominant they were in the late 70's and 80's. Three teams winning it six years in a row. It was only the banning of the English teams which halted their dominance.
Country: Scotland
Certainly knocked them off their stride and possibly United benefited most. If Liverpool were still in Europe and dominating its easy to imagine that they could have done the same in the new EPL era.
As I say anyway I think Europe is an unfair way to judge and what happened when the City money came in was understandable. He had nothing to prove, had rebuilt that United team for 20 odd years challenged at the top, was a lot older and decided that he should finish on a high. Maybe he realised it was going to even harder but you cannot begrudge the man leaving at that stage with his legacy. Perhaps Wenger could have benefited from the same self awareness that his FA cup win was the high to leave on because it was only going to get tougher.
Mo Britain
Doom Monger
Europe is unfairly biased towards Real Madrid and Barcelona due to the huge difference in spending power they enjoy over their rivals due to the imbalance in television money(maybe Atletico can now make inroads on that).
If Man City do not start to win the CL soon the Guardiola era will only be a relative success. You do not need two squads - which they have - at the cost of what they have spent, just to win domestic trophies.
Jae
Well-Known Member
I reckon he'll be gone by January.
