Discussion in 'Football Talk' started by KMC, Nov 7, 2013.
Brilliant brilliant club with a brilliant brilliant manager!
They're on a good run right now, but they could still easily finish 5th. It wasn't that long ago they were losing to Swansea and getting knocked out of the FA Cup at home to West Brom.
It's impressive that they're even on this run after losing one of their best players with his replacement 6 months away.
And prior to losing to Swansea they hadn't lost a game in 18 or something. They've only lost a few games all season, they seem to be pretty consistant as a team, and not had too many rough spells so far.
The premier league is crazy tough there will be two very good teams not getting top 4 of course. As fans we all want success and all expect it, but there has to be some realism to. Liverpool like Arsenal (I think?) and Spurs, don't and can't compete financially with Man City (0bviously), but also Chelsea and Man Utd, apologies if I am wrong about Arsenal regards the finances.
People love to say about Kloppo, that he HAS to win something now (funny how pochetino doesn't get the same pressure). But what if he doesnt? Do Liverpool sack him? Then what do they do? Because they are not getting a better coach than him again anytime soon. And they will then regress. It's kinda ridiculous really, but that's modern football, zero patience.
He is obviously doing well there, they play very good football, they are well set to get CL football for the 2nd season running, no idea when Liverpool last did that. He seems to attract and sign far better players than previous coaches did. He is helping build what seems a really good squad, despite losing Coutinho. He isn't going anywehre soon. Which for me personally is a shame cos I'd love him back in the Bundesliga. But for him its great, as he's clearly enjoying the project he's taken on there.
If Liverpool can sort out their defensive issues and Klopp stays for another 2-3 years, I can genuinely see them ending their league trophy drought before us
That one point Liverpool had over us last season that got them into the CL and us into the EL seems to have had a large effect on each club. We have since struggled and are now apparently having trouble raising funds for new players, while Liverpool have used their qualification to push on and invest massively in the team. They have signed Van Dijk and Keita, and are strongly linked to Alisson and Jorginho. With other good signings in Salah and Robertson, they're building a very strong squad. All this possible because of that one point. Football is a crazy game.
An understanding fine lines. So rare on AM.
A margin is a margin. Failure is failure. 4th place wasn't lost on the last day. We had a predictably sh!t league season under a failing manager.
He doesn't seem to understand that.
We're talking about someone here who believes that our 2nd placed finish, in a season where Leicester won the title, is a good outcome.
We have had 20 years of qualification. This is Liverpool's first in many years. Why haven't we pushed on more? Funds were available 5 years ago.
We spend a reasonable some of money, we've just spent it very poorly in comparison to Liverpool. Though it also helps that they got £75 million for Suarez a few years ago and got 140 million for Coutinho in January which has made it easier to spent 75 million on a CB which I'd imagine that's something we're not capable of doing as it'd waste up most of our budget.
Because we are Bare Minimum FC.
In the Leicester season we had a few injuries in the midfield and we spent 10m on Elneny when we were top of the league.
This season in the January we were out of the title race and the FA Cup, but we brought in two players worth 100m to boost our chances for Top 4.
Brilliant point. So many things wrong with this club, it used to be touted as the best run club in the world.
Can't believe are stupid shareholders sold the club to Kronke the ****.
They could really be on the brink of something. Klopp seems to be on the move with them since he joined them, he's constantly been getting that squad closer to challenging. His tactical prints have been there from day one, but it seems to be working better and better. And he's clearly forming the squad with a goal in mind. And it doesn't seem the odd season like the Rodgers/Suárez one.
They already added Keita and van Dijk, and basically financed these two with the Coutinho deal, which means they got more or less of a clean slate for transfers in the summer.
Klopp surely has his sight set on Horn and Hradecky from the Bundesliga to reinforce his GK options, who are both available dirt cheap. There's good value for quality options around at CB with Manolas 30m clause, de Vrij out of contract, etc. Ramsey might be on their list, he seems a Klopp player, Gerrard likes him and there's his contract situation. They had reported interest in Lemar, whose price will surely have fallen due to his rather off season. Malcom will be available again for around 50 to 60 I suppose and they will monitor their situations.
I imagine they can spend around 100 to 200m and there are surely some fringe players leaving for sums around 5 to 15/20m. If they add Hradecky and a good CB to solidify their defence, Ramsey in midfield and Malcom/Lemar in attack, there still might be money left for another CDM as a Can replacement, while staying on a rather "tight" budget for a big club.
Without losing key players, that squad managed by Klopp would be the most high energy all out attacking machine I've seen for some time.
Arsenal should've been on a similar trajectory.
Unless you're a club like Madrid or Bayern, most clubs go up and they come down. Liverpool are on the up, we're on the down. We'll be on the up again, we just need to wait for the tide to turn and be sure to jump on when it comes.
Even Bayern, Barca and Real were on downs. I remember when Bayern ended up in the EL in the 06/07 season, when Stuttgart won their last title. They went out and bought Ribery, Luca Toni and Klose, or their investments "against" Dortmund from 09/10 to 12/13 when they got Gomez, Robben, Neuer, Boateng, Martinez, Mandzukic.
Barca's "down" towards the end of the Rijkard era. Real when they went out to assemble the new Galacticos with Kaka etc.
Thing with Arsenal is, and you can see it in the comparison to Liverpool's recent resurgence, there's a sort of tipping point that's the right time to push on. For Liverpool, it wasn't right after Benitez, Hodgson was wtf, Dalglish tinkered a bit, then came Rodgers, who pushed into the right direction but probably lacked the quality himself. But at that point something was up and they did the right thing, got rid of Rodgers and got Klopp. And that's reignited that club.
For Arsenal, that point shoud've been the end of the stadium debt and the signing of Oezil. And while I adore Wenger and would never refrain to personal insults or tainting his success, I truly became to believe it's down to him that this was not a point of turning up again, but an acceleration into a downward spiral. Sometimes you cannot yourself reap what you have sown, but have to be content with having planted the seed.
I'm not discontent with Arsenal for being on a down per se, cause, like you said, all clubs go through the motions, but with the groundwork laid in the last two decades, Arsenal were supposed to be on the up right now, and there is responsibility to take for that failure. Taking advantage of momentum is crucial, and the best examples of missing or taking these opportunities are Arsenal and Liverpool.
Yeah no you're right, I agree. I think Arsenal will be on the up again but it doesn't just depend on external factors, it's also down to the hierarchy at the club to make it happen. For sure it's hard to trust the current hierarchy to make it happen. But in the grand scheme of things it's important to take perspective and realise that the fundamental size of Arsenal is still very big; history, stadium, league, fan base, training facilities, commercial potential etc. It will never be the richest club, but it will still be big enough that if a good manager arrives with some good player recruitment then we can see success again.
Liverpool have all the right ingredients and the alchemy is working in their favour right now, largely thanks to Klopp. But I wonder if Arsenal can still attract players based on wages and the desirable location of London. If we could attract someone like Emre Can, for example, with a new manager that would be a sign that everything is not totally lost.
What makes it more difficult now than before is that we live in an era of 6 clubs all trying to win the league, but also the effect of social media and intense punditry is also very influential. It's all about the 'here and now'. If you fail, pundits and rival fans are all around you to make you feel worse about it. It creates a distorting effect, but I guess that's just the new reality.
That's exactly why the current down is so disappointing. Because it's all there and seemingly down to individual mismanagement, not only by Wenger, but by a host of others involved, why Arsenal aren't where they are supposed to and where fans have been told the club would be.
Arsenal can't attract player like Can right now. They're at a club that's better performing. Regarding the London thing...I have always doubted the attractiveness of a city as a deciding point when choosing your future employer as footballer in modern times. Sure, if I'm on 2k quid a month, I wanna live somwhere rather nice cause I can't just travel or buy 5 houses. But if you're a pro athlete on 10m a year...
It's not neccessarilly only about the here and now, but about the spectacle of it. There's nothing in 'pools good run to win, it's sold already, but there's a ton of gain in reporting about the disaster at Arsenal; a new headline every day - if true or false.
I remember back then on thinking how a lack of preparation in pre-season, impacts the whole season soo much.
Liverpool took 3 points by winning 4-3 at the Emirates, in a crazy game on seasons opener, as we were so disjointed having to field Chambers-Holding in CB and Theo missed a penalty.
Fast forward end of season, and they ended 1 point ahead of us.