Kai Havertz: HavHurts

[BBF]

Back in the day people used to discuss how Henry and Ronaldo compared.

Now it's Jackson vs Havertz.

Get me off this wild ride man. Had enough. Freeze me in ice until we get an actual striker.

 

[Rasmi]

I just can't believe Arteta was in the trenches in.2021 and 2022, then managed to get his way out of them by 2023...only to bet the farm on Havertz.

It was just random and needless, be like instead of signing Sol Campbell in 2001 we signed Chris Perry from Sp**s or something.

It completely changed our style of play too, as Kai can't play in midfield like Xhaka could or up front like Jesus can and we turn into a weird rich David Moyes Everton....when we were arguably the most entertaining team in the league before it.

I just will never understand that deal until the day I die, so many negatives attached to it.

And he’s too stubborn to admit defeat. So we know he will insist with that lanky creature forever

 

[Heavy Duty Rom]

I feel like if you spend close to £700 million pounds in over 5 years, you should at the very least have a complete squad. It's 2025 and we are still crying for a striker and a left 8 because Kai couldn't nail down a position in either role. Completing squads is a race against time. There are players with their contracts dwindling, and if they feel we are not competitive, they will leave. Which means we have to replace them, leading to more gaps in the squad. Essentially, buy the players that you need before you buy “projects” like Havertz.

Its stepping stones though isn't it. For where we were, some of the players he signed were good enough to get us to a certain level, and when we reached that level, we needed the next tier of player. 700m sounds a lot, but its only just over 100m a season on average. When you consider the over haul we needed, and the progression we've made, as you get to a higher level, you need to spend more to get the difference makers.

Everyone keeps going back to Kai, why? Because Arteta doesn't have the luxury to go again. Liverpool spent more on Nunez, and have him on the bench most games. City have 100m Grealish sat on the bench. Utd with Antony, they signed Rasmus for 70m and moved for Zirkzee a season later, and will go again for another striker in the summer. Don't get me started on Chelsea.

 

[Gunner D]

Back in the day people used to discuss how Henry and Ronaldo compared.

Now it's Jackson vs Havertz.

Get me off this wild ride man. Had enough. Freeze me in ice until we get an actual striker.

Been told this is the golden era of football.

 

[Heavy Duty Rom]

Been told this is the golden era of football.

Its definitely dropped off. 90s/early 00s were class.

 

[Riou]

Been told this is the golden era of football.

Duel numbers are off the charts in the 2020s, tbf!

 

[Batman]

Its stepping stones though isn't it. For where we were, some of the players he signed were good enough to get us to a certain level, and when we reached that level, we needed the next tier of player. 700m sounds a lot, but its only just over 100m a season on average. When you consider the over haul we needed, and the progression we've made, as you get to a higher level, you need to spend more to get the difference makers.

Everyone keeps going back to Kai, why? Because Arteta doesn't have the luxury to go again. Liverpool spent more on Nunez, and have him on the bench most games. City have 100m Grealish sat on the bench. Utd with Antony, they signed Rasmus for 70m and moved for Zirkzee a season later, and will go again for another striker in the summer. Don't get me started on Chelsea.

It's an optics problem. Yes, we can't write off a big money mistake like City, United or Chelsea do but when you start the summer window with Sesko very clearly your primary target and then you don't bring anyone at all in to address that area and then Havertz regresses as a player along with all of the injuries to attacking players and the goal scoring droughts, it magnifies the fact that some areas are addressed and others are neglected.

If you know you don't have unlimited funds and you have one area which is a clear strength in your team while another is a clear weakness but the area of strength is one you'll gamble on while the area of weakness is one that you're so picky about that you just keep doing the bare minimum then it becomes an optics problem.

A striker should have been brought in in the last 6 months and it can't be as simple as well I can't have Isak or Sesko so let's do nothing. That clearly wasn't the only choice yet that's the one which has been made and so that is a problem.

Arteta might not be able to go again in the sense that he can spend 70m on a striker every summer until he gets it right but they were ready to buy him Sesko this summer. When he didn't get Raya the first time he wanted him, he pivoted to Ramsdale. He should have done the same when he couldn't get Sesko.

50m is enough to get someone competent in. He and the club have elected not to do that the past 2 windows and so that looks bad, particularly when you bring in a guy like Merino who already looks redundant and tried to spend 30m on a backup GK for most of the window.

 

[shoot for the top]

And he has been. 2nd top scorer last season, top scorer this season. He's doing what he was doing last season, the problem is, nobody else is, other than our defenders and set pieces.

I can’t believe you are serious. Lord save us.

 

[Heavy Duty Rom]

It's an optics problem. Yes, we can't write off a big money mistake like City, United or Chelsea do but when you start the summer window with Sesko very clearly your primary target and then you don't bring anyone at all in to address that area and then Havertz regresses as a player along with all of the injuries to attacking players and the goal scoring droughts, it magnifies the fact that some areas are addressed and others are neglected.

If you know you don't have unlimited funds and you have one area which is a clear strength in your team while another is a clear weakness but the area of strength is one you'll gamble on while the area of weakness is one that you're so picky about that you just keep doing the bare minimum then it becomes an optics problem.

A striker should have been brought in in the last 6 months and it can't be as simple as well I can't have Isak or Sesko so let's do nothing. That clearly wasn't the only choice yet that's the one which has been made and so that is a problem.

Arteta might not be able to go again in the sense that he can spend 70m on a striker every summer until he gets it right but they were ready to buy him Sesko this summer. When he didn't get Raya the first time he wanted him, he pivoted to Ramsdale. He should have done the same when he couldn't get Sesko. 50m is enough to get someone competent in. He and the club have elected not to do that the past 2 windows and so that looks bad.

I could be wrong, but i don't think thats Arteta. Take Watkins for example, he wanted him for 60, the board were only willing to go to 40. Forwards and wingers are generally going to cost more than defenders and mids. So if you have limited funds, is it better to get a top defensive talent like Calafiori? Or risk getting some 30m attacker who turns out to be the striker equivalent of Fabio Vieira?

After just missing out on the title, why was there a 2 out 1 in policy in the summer. Reeks of a lack of ambition. There is always going to be the odd miss, but if you go through Artetas transfers, he's actually done very well and deserves more backing imo.

 

[dashsnow17]

Nah I’m calling BS on that. Kai is incredibly frustrating and not elite but he’s a better player than Jackson.

 

[Riou]

Nah I’m calling BS on that. Kai is incredibly frustrating and not elite but he’s a better player than Jackson.

I would say Havertz just shades it, but that doesn't say much about Kai considering Michael Jackson has been dead for 15 years...

 

[Heavy Duty Rom]

I can’t believe you are serious. Lord save us.

He's just under 1 in 2 in the league. He is 1 in 2 in the CL. He's 1 in 2 in the League Cup. Like, what more do you want from a player who isn't a natural goalscorer? Like i said, he'd be a great 12th man, the fact we are having to rely on him as the man, isn't his fault.

 

[Trilly]

The board didn't want to release an extra 20m for Watkins. Intsead they'll spend the same amount to try and get Sesko in the summer, even though Watkins would be better over the next few seasons.

That’s not what happened btw.

Club started at 40 and Villa said a deal could be done at 60. We didn’t even get to respond before the Duran deal was done.

 

[Heavy Duty Rom]

If we had Saka, and if we had another top forward contributing, this from Kai wouldn't look so bad.

 

[Batman]

I could be wrong, but i don't think thats Arteta. Take Watkins for example, he wanted him for 60, the board were only willing to go to 40. Forwards and wingers are generally going to cost more than defenders and mids. So if you have limited funds, is it better to get a top defensive talent like Calafiori? Or risk getting some 30m attacker who turns out to be the striker equivalent of Fabio Vieira?

After just missing out on the title, why was there a 2 out 1 in policy in the summer. Reeks of a lack of ambition. There is always going to be the odd miss, but if you go through Artetas transfers, he's actually done very well and deserves more backing imo.

The reporting is that the club left it late to make the first bid and then the Duran deal made a 2nd bid pointless because of the timing. At any rate, the reporting thus far has been that Arteta gets the players that he wants and often chooses to do nothing if his first choice isn't possible.

As for the transfer policy in the summer, it was the end of the PSR cycle and you saw virtually every big club in England looking to sell, particularly homegrown players. That's not a lack of ambition, it's adhering to the rules. We didn't have the necessary player sales prior to this summer to be compliant with PSR so the summer window had to be a bit more subdued.

Now as far as missing out on someone like Cala, I like him as a player and I'm happy we have him BUT football matches are won by outscoring the opponent. You can keep 38 clean sheets with your defense and be relegated if you can't score. You win titles by scoring goals. We already had an elite defensive unit. We didn't have the kind of out and out scorer that takes you deep in the CL and wins you the league so to me, you prioritize the area of weakness which also has the biggest impact on whether you pick up 3 points or not.

 

[Iwobeast]

Feels like there’s some massive gaslighting with this guy in fan media.

Was listening to Clive saying he gives Kai credit for the Newcastle performance because he didn’t hide (lol)

Other players like Ødegaard and Partey getting singled out for their poor performances but not a single squeak about Kai dropping another stinker and not even doing the basics of football right.

 

[Rasmi]

Feels like there’s some massive gaslighting with this guy in fan media.

Was listening to Clive saying he gives Kai credit for the Newcastle performance because he didn’t hide (lol)

Other players like Ødegaard and Partey getting singled out for their poor performances but not a single squeak about Kai dropping another stinker and not even doing the basics of football right.

How do you hide as a striker when your team is in need of goals and you are the only striker.

 

[El Duderino]

The reporting is that the club left it late to make the first bid and then the Duran deal made a 2nd bid pointless because of the timing. At any rate, the reporting thus far has been that Arteta gets the players that he wants and often chooses to do nothing if his first choice isn't possible.

As for the transfer policy in the summer, it was the end of the PSR cycle and you saw virtually every big club in England looking to sell, particularly homegrown players. That's not a lack of ambition, it's adhering to the rules. We didn't have the necessary player sales prior to this summer to be compliant with PSR so the summer window had to be a bit more subdued.

Now as far as missing out on someone like Cala, I like him as a player and I'm happy we have him BUT football matches are won by outscoring the opponent. You can keep 38 clean sheets with your defense and be relegated if you can't score. You win titles by scoring goals. We already had an elite defensive unit. We didn't have the kind of out and out scorer that takes you deep in the CL and wins you the league so to me, you prioritize the area of weakness which also has the biggest impact on whether you pick up 3 points or not.

Asked chatGPT to summarize this and it came back as: Aerial duels don't win you league titles.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Because you know what will follow it if I did use that comparison lol people will start breaking down his G/A compared to Bendtner when in reality they’re both hot and cold/confidence players particularly infront of goal. That’s why I didn’t even bother

Ngl seeing you afraid to compare Havertz and Bendtner to then compare the two as a justification for not comparing the two had me chuckling.

I don't even blame you tbh just thought it was funny.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

The board didn't want to release an extra 20m for Watkins. Intsead they'll spend the same amount to try and get Sesko in the summer, even though Watkins would be better over the next few seasons.

Prefer Sesko for that kind of investment honestly, even in the short term.