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Kai Havertz: Live and Let Kai (Play CF)

Will Kai prove to be a Xhaka upgrade?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

Blood on the Tracks

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Country: England

Player:Rice
I can't make too many judgements on that short cameo.

But subs have to be up to speed the moment they come on. He made a silly mistake straight away that could have us a goal.
 

elemoo

Active Member
I can't make too many judgements on that short cameo.

But subs have to be up to speed the moment they come on. He made a silly mistake straight away that could have us a goal.

Almost all of our players will make mistakes at various points throughout the season, that doesn't negate what they bring to the team. I have seen Ode give the ball away far more this season than Havertz through either basic passes that were under-hit or trying to take on 3 players and being easily dispossessed.

And I agree subs should be up to speed but how often do you see players needing a 5min spell to at least get a few touches and feel the game tempo etc... I would argue very often.
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Fair enough if that’s your take. I don’t think Xhaka was better at build up play at all bar his purple patch last season. The previous 4 years were not very good imo.

Think Havertz is better technically, stronger in the air, anticipates play better and opens up space for others with his off the ball movement. Even yday in his cameo he as able to break up play using strength and anticipation to a very good pass to Ode (which should’ve lead to a goal from Eddie).

Granted he has lot the ball at times in offensive moments but this season I would say the same for Ode.

People like to say it’s a waste of money yet why is it no-one is able to mention 5 players we could realistically get (not who are simply are better players) for lees money who can do the job Arteta is asking (more controlling and is able to be strong defensively off the ball) and is versatile enough to cover for both, injuries and more importantly provide a plan B during games.

What come on there aren’t 5 players we could get better than Ksi gor 65 million? Quality attacking midfielders better than Kai for 65 million and a million a month is not difficult. Kudus, Thuram(free transfer) Lavia, there are multiple players that are better attacking or central midfieldersx

Kai hides. He had a match with 27 passes and he played all game. Xhaka was not a hider. Xhaka in his worst years still pinged the ball around the pitch with his left foot beautifully. Kai under hits a 10 year simple through killing goal opportunities.

There are and were so many better options for less money. Arteta screwed up royally and could end up destroying our chances of league with his fixation with Kai like he destroyed 2 seasons figuring out Holding is a plumber and not a footballer and destroyed a season with Willian playing in front of wingback Saka.

Mik should never be allowed this much power in transfers ever again. That is how obviously bad and destructive this buy is.
 

elemoo

Active Member
What come on there aren’t 5 players we could get better than Ksi gor 65 million? Quality attacking midfielders better than Kai for 65 million and a million a month is not difficult. Kudus, Thuram(free transfer) Lavia, there are multiple players that are better attacking or central midfieldersx

Kai hides. He had a match with 27 passes and he played all game. Xhaka was not a hider. Xhaka in his worst years still pinged the ball around the pitch with his left foot beautifully. Kai under hits a 10 year simple through killing goal opportunities.

There are and were so many better options for less money. Arteta screwed up royally and could end up destroying our chances of league with his fixation with Kai like he destroyed 2 seasons figuring out Holding is a plumber and not a footballer and destroyed a season with Willian playing in front of wingback Saka.

Mik should never be allowed this much power in transfers ever again. That is how obviously bad and destructive this buy is.

So basically no you couldn’t name 5 players that we could realistically have got under 65mil instead to do the job being asked of Arteta who provide and option we don’t already have in Ode.

Lol ok if u think Xhaka was better in his first 4yrs then that’s your take but apart from the odd nice pass, I’m just not convinced that is the case… more to the point I think it’s fair to start judging Havertz based on the inoperable to his role - swap him for Xhaka and we don’t beat City or Brentford.
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
So basically no you couldn’t name 5 players that we could realistically have got under 65mil instead to do the job being asked of Arteta who provide and option we don’t already have in Ode.

Lol ok if u think Xhaka was better in his first 4yrs then that’s your take but apart from the odd nice pass, I’m just not convinced that is the case… more to the point I think it’s fair to start judging Havertz based on the inoperable to his role - swap him for Xhaka and we don’t beat City or Brentford.
Kai hides, he is averaging 30 something youches a match. He is crap in build up Xhaka never hid and was better in build up. If you look at advanced stats it proves Havertz is a poor passer.

I can name tons of midfielders at 65 million better than Kai. He does nothing but head it if you bounce a perfect ball off his head.

Kudus, Lavia, Zubi, Thuram, jordan Ramsey are just 5 attacking and central midfielders better. Willock who we had is a better . This is just off the top of my head.
 

elemoo

Active Member
Kai hides, he is averaging 30 something youches a match. He is crap in build up Xhaka never hid and was better in build up. If you look at advanced stats it proves Havertz is a poor passer.

I can name tons of midfielders at 65 million better than Kai. He does nothing but head it if you bounce a perfect ball off his head.

Kudus, Lavia, Zubi, Thuram, jordan Ramsey are just 5 attacking and central midfielders better. Willock who we had is a better . This is just off the top of my head.

Lol they are either the same type of player we have in Ode, we don't need 2 players in his mould. Better player in overall quality is not the same thing, Fistly they are not all realistically gonna come to Arsenal and more importantly, how are any of those players you mentioned are versatile (Havertz can play like 4 positions which with an injury record like ours is important) AND provide an option B? None.

Does Havertz need to do better? I think so. Can he offer more than he is currently? Absolutely! Is he showing signs of slowly growing into the team tha can add another dimension to our play that allows us to be less predictable and target outlet? Yes. Xhaka does not change games or the team dynamic or performance.
 

CannonBals

Active Member
Kai hides, he is averaging 30 something youches a match. He is crap in build up Xhaka never hid and was better in build up. If you look at advanced stats it proves Havertz is a poor passer.

I can name tons of midfielders at 65 million better than Kai. He does nothing but head it if you bounce a perfect ball off his head.

Kudus, Lavia, Zubi, Thuram, jordan Ramsey are just 5 attacking and central midfielders better. Willock who we had is a better . This is just off the top of my head.

Szoboszlai
Maddison
Palmer


Also Havertz is generally not the one making line breaking pass but the one receiving them as he pick good positions. He seems a pretty smart player but not an high octane one. He is also essentially a second striker who puts in a good defensive shift.
As an a player overall I don't mind him. He does bring in few attributes which we miss so is a very good option off the bench.
Two issues though
1. He is basically replacing Xhakha, If Xhakha were still here we would have much problem and there no good alternative to that LCM role.
2. Price - 65m and 250k+ is nuts

Neither of those are on him, they are on Arteta/Edu.

I think I will give him atleast a season but this is surely an unnecessary project to take at this stage. Had Xhakha stayed I would have understood but as it is, was just an unnecessary project.
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Szoboszlai
Maddison
Palmer


Also Havertz is generally not the one making line breaking pass but the one receiving them as he pick good positions. He seems a pretty smart player but not an high octane one. He is also essentially a second striker who puts in a good defensive shift.
As an a player overall I don't mind him. He does bring in few attributes which we miss so is a very good option off the bench.
Two issues though
1. He is basically replacing Xhakha, If Xhakha were still here we would have much problem and there no good alternative to that LCM role.
2. Price - 65m and 250k+ is nuts

Neither of those are on him, they are on Arteta/Edu.

I think I will give him atleast a season but this is surely an unnecessary project to take at this stage. Had Xhakha stayed I would have understood but as it is, was just an unnecessary project.
Szobo is averaging 2.1 key passes a game and is one of only top ten attackers in top ten in league for touches. Go on Rawk no one thinks he is a flop. Havertz stinks. Sorry when he is out of the match you can see how much better our build up is. Terrible really indefensible buy considering Kudus wanted us and Thuram went on the free
 

Fallout

Active Member
Obviously he's not good enough yet

However, he is on an upward trajectory, and we know he has a high upper bound given his days in germany

If he rediscovers that then he becomes a very unique player, both physically imposing and technically strong, and positionally flexible

Which would make him better than anyone else we could have bought in my opinion

There is a long way to go and lots of work, but I'm curious enough at this stage to keep the experiment going

His contribution in current state is below the rest of the team, but (barely) enough to justify game time given what he could become
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Obviously he's not good enough yet

However, he is on an upward trajectory, and we know he has a high upper bound given his days in germany

If he rediscovers that then he becomes a very unique player, both physically imposing and technically strong, and positionally flexible

Which would make him better than anyone else we could have bought in my opinion

There is a long way to go and lots of work, but I'm curious enough at this stage to keep the experiment going

His contribution in current state is below the rest of the team, but (barely) enough to justify game time given what he could become
Wtf, stop saying Kai was only choice at 65 million is logic dead? Thuram went to Italian farmers league on the free. Why is ot every time Mik creates a disaster AM thinks there was no other choice. What ridiculous logic
 

CannonBals

Active Member
Szobo is averaging 2.1 key passes a game and is one of only top ten attackers in top ten in league for touches. Go on Rawk no one thinks he is a flop. Havertz stinks. Sorry when he is out of the match you can see how much better our build up is. Terrible really indefensible buy considering Kudus wanted us and Thuram went on the free

On the contrary I was suggesting these were other options you missed and Szobo would have been my pick.
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
On the contrary I was suggesting these were other options you missed and Szobo would have been my pick.
Totally agree Maddison, szobo, Thuram, and Kudus we could have had for less. There are a bunch of other better players at that price point
 

Fallout

Active Member
Wtf, stop saying Kai was only choice at 65 million is logic dead? Thuram went to Italian farmers league on the free. Why is ot every time Mik creates a disaster AM thinks there was no other choice. What ridiculous logic
I didn't say there was no other choice

A different choice could have been to buy someone who is ready to contribute now

That is not logically inconsistent with saying Havertz could turn into something better down the road
 

elemoo

Active Member
Wtf, stop saying Kai was only choice at 65 million is logic dead? Thuram went to Italian farmers league on the free. Why is ot every time Mik creates a disaster AM thinks there was no other choice. What ridiculous logic

You are talking about players who wanted to go elsewhere ala not realistic. Sure ppl might say Maddison but he’s similar to Ode but not as good and certainly not offering a different dimension to the way we play as a plan B.

Honest question, do you really think we were winning that City and Brentford game with Xhaka in the team instead of Havertz?
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
You are talking about players who wanted to go elsewhere ala not realistic. Sure ppl might say Maddison but he’s similar to Ode but not as good and certainly not offering a different dimension to the way we play as a plan B.

Honest question, do you really think we were winning that City and Brentford game with Xhaka in the team instead of Havertz?
Yes much easier than with a non midfielder. People throw out Szobo as a similar bad midfield buy by Lfc. Szobo has as more G/as in all competitions and as many in league. Plus he has 2.1 key passes a match and for every time Kai touches it in a match Szobo averaging 2.5 touches. Midfielders are judged heavily on passing. Xhaka good passer, despite weak in defense and in speed. Szobo good passer. Ksi is s cr.p passer. He leaves every ball short missed routine balls killing attacks, plus he hides look at his total touch and pass numbers.
 

elemoo

Active Member
Yes much easier than with a non midfielder. People throw out Szobo as a similar bad midfield buy by Lfc. Szobo has as more G/as in all competitions and as many in league. Plus he has 2.1 key passes a match and for every time Kai touches it in a match Szobo averaging 2.5 touches. Midfielders are judged heavily on passing. Xhaka good passer, despite weak in defense and in speed. Szobo good passer. Ksi is s cr.p passer. He leaves every ball short missed routine balls killing attacks, plus he hides look at his total touch and pass numbers.
Kai needs to I prove and needs to up his game on a consistent level for sure and that’s possible as he’s only been in our system 14 games.

On the other hand, if you think Xhaka was better for our team bc he’s a better passer over Havertz who can creates space, is stronger, faster, can be an aerial threat, better defensively, can play multiple positions and more importantly can be a difference maker in winning games then ur living in Narnia imo.

As far as I’m concerned if he continues to help us win games and rack up points in games we would otherwise not win ala Brentford then it’s not a bad investment (which is on the club to decide in real terms - not sure why u would slate him for being 65mil as if it’s his fault, makes no sense… surely that would be sthing for the Edu or Transfers thread no?)

Coming on a forum to slate our own player is pretty weird tbh (unless it was a direct correlation to a performance) without any support to hope he improves for the sake of the team is such a weird odd stance - regardless of who that player is, otherwise what value do u gain in ways of open discussion? You just gonna come on here and repeat yourself every week bc u don’t rate him?
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Kai needs to I prove and needs to up his game on a consistent level for sure and that’s possible as he’s only been in our system 14 games.

On the other hand, if you think Xhaka was better for our team bc he’s a better passer over Havertz who can creates space, is stronger, faster, can be an aerial threat, better defensively, can play multiple positions and more importantly can be a difference maker in winning games then ur living in Narnia imo.

As far as I’m concerned if he continues to help us win games and rack up points in games we would otherwise not win ala Brentford then it’s not a bad investment (which is on the club to decide in real terms - not sure why u would slate him for being 65mil as if it’s his fault, makes no sense… surely that would be sthing for the Edu or Transfers thread no?)

Coming on a forum to slate our own player is pretty weird tbh (unless it was a direct correlation to a performance) without any support to hope he improves for the sake of the team is such a weird odd stance - regardless of who that player is, otherwise what value do u gain in ways of open discussion? You just gonna come on here and repeat yourself every week bc u don’t rate him?
I can slate a player or manager who are you the fan police. Anyone not performing to the standards of the team I patronize with lots of money and years of following i will criticize. I also defend players unfairly judged. Kai is not being unfairly judged. He plays in almost every match and he is bad. He know has a 4 year track record of cr.p performances in England what are you basing your emotional faith he will resurrect himself on?

It is simply weak and dishonest debate to lose an argument then challenge the motivations of the person who provides ample back up for i will check out of this debate
 

PrinzPoldi

Active Member

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Szobo is averaging 2.1 key passes a game and is one of only top ten attackers in top ten in league for touches. Go on Rawk no one thinks he is a flop. Havertz stinks. Sorry when he is out of the match you can see how much better our build up is. Terrible really indefensible buy considering Kudus wanted us and Thuram went on the free
Not true
More than enough games our buildup was still slow and **** when Kai was on the bench
Don't make up things.
 

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