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Kai Havertz: Live and Let Kai (Play CF)

Will Kai prove to be a Xhaka upgrade?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Not true
More than enough games our buildup was still slow and **** when Kai was on the bench
Don't make up things.
He is a terrible passer stop making up skills he doesn’t have. Yesterday buildup looked great till he came in
 

PrinzPoldi

Active Member

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
He is a terrible passer stop making up skills he doesn’t have. Yesterday buildup looked great till he came in
Yesterday we played two different tactics, if you did not realize.

Our first half tactics were like the games against Lens in the first half

Free flowing aggressive attacking football.
Kai started that game and we were up 5-0 in first half.
Nobody said anything about him slowing down our game.

Yesterday against Wolves our first half pretty much did the same way.
Then we changed it back to possession based slow temple defensive football, and before Kai getting on the field, Trossard has about 20-25 minutes did nothing on the attack and played exactly how Kai played as left 8 in most of our games this season.
Long before Kai was on, out tempo was already slowed down. Are you going to say Kai slowed down our attack in that 25 minutes which he was not on the field?

It is Arteta's tactics and set up, don't blame the player.
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Yesterday we played two different tactics, if you did not realize.

Our first half tactics were like the games against Lens in the first half

Free flowing aggressive attacking football.
Kai started that game and we were up 5-0 in first half.
Nobody said anything about him slowing down our game.

Yesterday against Wolves our first half pretty much did the same way.
Then we changed it back to possession based slow temple defensive football, and before Kai getting on the field, Trossard has about 20-25 minutes did nothing on the attack and played exactly how Kai played as left 8 in most of our games this season.
Long before Kai was on, out tempo was already slowed down. Are you going to say Kai slowed down our attack in that 25 minutes which he was not on the field?

It is Arteta's tactics and set up, don't blame the player.
Look at his passing stats. They are awful. He touches the ball sometimes 30 times a match. I have watched him 4 years he was a poor passer at Chelsea as well. The guy has a 4 year track record in this league that doesn’t disappear. His advanced passing numbers are atrocious. And i can just see his short through balls and scared 5 yards sideways pass with my own eye. He is hiding you can’t see it but the rest of us do.
 

Xln

Get me Jesus on the phone 📲
Look at his passing stats. They are awful. He touches the ball sometimes 30 times a match. I have watched him 4 years he was a poor passer at Chelsea as well. The guy has a 4 year track record in this league that doesn’t disappear. His advanced passing numbers are atrocious. And i can just see his short through balls and scared 5 yards sideways pass with my own eye. He is hiding you can’t see it but the rest of us do.
You watched every Chelsea game for 4 years? :lol: :lol:
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
You watched every Chelsea game for 4 years? :lol: :lol:
No but enough. I would say last 4 years i watch almost every Arsenal match and most big 6 matches. I watched him play for Chelsea in 3 years probably 60-80 times in league and in Europe

And PS he was sh.t in build up there to and couldn’t pick a pass either
 
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PrinzPoldi

Active Member

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
No but enough. I would say last 4 years i watch almost every Arsenal match and most big 6 matches. I watched him play for Chelsea in 3 years probably 60-80 times in league and in Europe

And PS he was sh.t in build up there to and couldn’t pick a pass either
I don't understand the logic here, to use Kai the lone striker forward pass stats to compare Kai the midfielder 's passing stat
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
I don't understand the logic here, to use Kai the lone striker forward pass stats to compare Kai the midfielder 's passing stat
Kai the player is a bad passer for a Pl attacking player at any position. He is even worse at passing when compared to midfielders so how does that advance your logic?
 

elemoo

Active Member
All I’m hearing is “he’s a cr*p passer and slows our play down” on repeat even though since joining us, his passing stats have been better than Ødegaard, who as actually lost possession more times than Havertz. Both have scored 2 in-play goals.

Surely you have to concede that he’s been our best AM so far this season? Or have I missed something? He got us 3pts above city and leading the table. And an important assist to beat City which I poriges our team mentality, so I think his contribution so far has been important to where we are as a team right now.

I do think he has to improve on some lazy aspects but it’s not like Trossard has been better in the 8 offensively and certainly not as good defensively.

If he plays sh*t then it’s fair to call him out of course but let’s not act like he’s been terrible as it simply isn’t true, most ppl just want to see more from him offensively and time will tell but the last month he seems to growing i to the role… let’s hope it continues to improve.
 

Bloodbather

Established Member

Country: Turkey
All I’m hearing is “he’s a cr*p passer and slows our play down” on repeat even though since joining us, his passing stats have been better than Ødegaard, who as actually lost possession more times than Havertz. Both have scored 2 in-play goals.
Judging playmaking midfielders by possession lost stats is a terrible approach. Playmakers lose possession more often because they attempt riskier passes. De Bruyne also loses possession a lot.
 

elemoo

Active Member
Judging playmaking midfielders by possession lost stats is a terrible approach. Playmakers lose possession more often because they attempt riskier passes. De Bruyne also loses possession a lot.
I hear you, it was not a judgement but rather pointing out that this is not something unique to Havertz in areas involved from passing
 

ThlRama

Active Member

Country: Greece

Player:Saka
Look at his passing stats. They are awful. He touches the ball sometimes 30 times a match. I have watched him 4 years he was a poor passer at Chelsea as well. The guy has a 4 year track record in this league that doesn’t disappear. His advanced passing numbers are atrocious. And i can just see his short through balls and scared 5 yards sideways pass with my own eye. He is hiding you can’t see it but the rest of us do.
Please show those stats. Cause I have two stat databases that say otherwise:


Not necessarily arguing with you, just curious where you have found that.
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Please show those stats. Cause I have two stat databases that say otherwise:


Not necessarily arguing with you, just curious where you have found that.
Those are his passing stats vs forwards. Here are is stats against midfielders. He is averaging 30 something passes and his assist totals are poor at chelsea and Arsenal :


IMG_0466.png
 

elemoo

Active Member
Those are his passing stats vs forwards. Here are is stats against midfielders. He is averaging 30 something passes and his assist totals are poor at chelsea and Arsenal :


View attachment 20161


I said SINCE JOINING US. This seasons stats can be found using the Livescore app or Google sthing similar. And thats not even considering minutes played which of course Ødegaard has more. And just to clarify, I am talking Premier league THIS SEASON as all of our AM are now in the same system/setup.

Now tell me Havertz isn't the reason we sit 3pts above city right now. Tell me has hasn't effected where we are in the league more than all of our other AM's. If all you gonna bring is stats that show he hasn't passing as often (not uneffectvely) prior to joining us and playing the new 8 role it's not relevant to this thread tbh.
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
I said SINCE JOINING US. These stats can be found using the Livescore app or Google sthing similar. And thats not even considering minutes played which of course Ødegaard has more. And just to clarify, I am talking Premier league THIS SEASON as all of our AM are now in the same system/setup.

So tell me Havertz isn't the reason we sit 3pts above city right now. If all you gonna bring is stats prior to joining us and playing the new 8 role its not relevant to this thread tbh.
He is touching it 30 times a match terrible. I watched him every match. Been watching football football nearly 40 years; he is worst attacking player in build up. By the numbers and by the eye test.
 

elemoo

Active Member
He is touching it 30 times a match terrible. I watched him every match. Been watching football football nearly 40 years; he is worst attacking player in build up. By the numbers and by the eye test.
So by your own omission, what he seems a lack is getting in enough passes per game this season to be doing worse than our other AMs? Is that honestly the only thing you can use as a measuring stick? You don't think effective contribution matters?

Please tell me what you think any of our AMs have done more than Havertz in the prem this season to have been more important to our play and current position in the league. And if you tell me you think he has killed more free flowing attacks and slowed them down compared to Ødegaard then you really have not been watching our EPL games this season.
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
So by your own omission, what he seems a lack is getting in enough passes per game this season to be doing worse than our other AMs? Is that honestly the only thing you can use as a measuring stick? You don't think effective contribution matters?

Please tell me what you think any of our AMs have done more than Havertz in the prem this season to have been more important to our play and current position in the league. And if you tell me you think he has killed more free flowing attacks and slowed them down compared to Ødegaard then you really have not been watching our EPL games this season.
Havertz and Ode play same position at Arsenal. Let’s compare passing numbers for just this season then i am done with this debate because you got some agenda where you ignore numbers and go off on tangents:

IMG_0467.png


Do you see here how Havertz has ZERO through balls at Arsenal? Ode has 10. Do you see how Ode has 5 big chances created and Havertz has Zero? Do you see disparity in touches as well. Do these numbers not prove he is crap in build up?
 

ArsenesCoatMaker

Established Member
Those are his passing stats vs forwards. Here are is stats against midfielders. He is averaging 30 something passes and his assist totals are poor at chelsea and Arsenal :


View attachment 20161

I suspect you don't know why you're using statistics so poorly to prove that Havertz has the best xG and xA combination of pretty much any midfielder. You've literally misused statistics to double kneecap yourself.

I'll let you have a think to see if you can think where you might have failed.
 

elemoo

Active Member
Havertz and Ode play same position at Arsenal. Let’s compare passing numbers for just this season then i am done with this debate because you got some agenda where you ignore numbers and go off on tangents:

View attachment 20163


Do you see here how Havertz has ZERO through balls at Arsenal? Ode has 10. Do you see how Ode has 5 big chances created and Havertz has Zero? Do you see disparity in touches as well. Do these numbers not prove he is crap in build up?

Oh dear. Who's gonna tell him? *Kanye shrug*
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
I suspect you don't know why you're using statistics so poorly to prove that Havertz has the best xG and xA combination of pretty much any midfielder. You've literally misused statistics to double kneecap yourself.

I'll let you have a think to see if you can think where you might have failed.
Kai has zero through balls and zero big chances created. You tet sexuals love ignoring facts that are outside your cult’s safe zone. xg is mythical; in actual numbers he has created zero big chances and has also missed a few
 

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