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Kai Havertz: Skaifall

Will Kai prove to be a Xhaka upgrade?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

Kysus

Active Member
His off the ball movement is vital for us.
With Martinelli out, our left side was not working against Everton as both Trossard and Vieira are more On-Ball players.

He just needs to score some, get his confidence back and all will be good. He is a bit too timid in the final 3rd right now.
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
His off the ball movement is vital for us.
With Martinelli out, our left side was not working against Everton as both Trossard and Vieira are more On-Ball players.

He just needs to score some, get his confidence back and all will be good. He is a bit too timid in the final 3rd right now.
He had 27 passes last match Ode had 70, he is hiding you guys call it off ball running
 

ArsenesCoatMaker

Established Member
He had 27 passes last match Ode had 70, he is hiding you guys call it off ball running

The team is tasked with putting Ødegaard on the ball because he's our best playmaker.

Xhaka regularly had games when he was making only 20-30 passes per game. Vieira made 34 passes against Everton.
 

ArsenesCoatMaker

Established Member
No it isn’t did anyone buy those guys from a rival to switch their position. Who we gave the money to is a huge factor also.

Ok name one buy where someone overpays valuation, to a direct rival, makes a 3 year flop their highest paid or near highest paid player, to switch his position. Who the hell but this bozo has ever done that? Did Barca buy Robinho after he flopped for a fortune to switch him to wingback?

Not a word of hyperbole Mik invented a new form of buffoonery in the transfer market

Several things wrong with this post. Firstly which Bozo buys flops and changes their position - Arsène Wenger - see Thierry Henry. Arsène changed so many players positions. Any Arsenal fan should be more than familiar with this yet your convinced changing a position is a bad idea.

Havertz wasn't a flop anyway, he was a regular starter for Chelsea and probably their best forward. They wanted to extend his contract but he wouldn't agree to being extended.

As for 'overpaying valuation' - what are you basing that on? This is a market where Mount costs about the same with only 1 year on his deal, Antony costs 20m Euros more, Caicedo costs 35m Euros more, Mudryk costs 25m Euros more. Havertz transfer fee wasn't overvalued in this market

As for his wages, we don't know what he's on. If he genuine is on 300k a week as reported, it's a big investment. That depends on his commercial worth too though. It maybe his commercial worth such as sponsorships brings a ton of money into AFC so we pay him more as a result.
 

Legend14

Established Member
The team is tasked with putting Ødegaard on the ball because he's our best playmaker.

Xhaka regularly had games when he was making only 20-30 passes per game. Vieira made 34 passes against Everton.
His movement is good, but it doesn’t refute the fact that he hides on the pitch when playing 8. He should have more touches given his movement but he does just enough off the ball to not be clearly open. When he does this we are playing with 10 men.

This is his current mentality. As much match film as they have and as many coaches as they have, you would think that someone would have corrected this. He needs to take responsibility to make a difference.
 

CannonBals

Active Member
Tomi and Vieira were Arteta picks. Edu wanted Emerson Royal, Arteta wanted Tomi. Arteta said he was enthusiastic about wanting Vieira
He was enthusiastic of Lokonge/Tavares aswell but they were identified by Edus team. From what I understand Viera was recommended by Edu based on availability/price/profile/agent connection. Tomiyasu yes can be Artetas pick as i remembered the Royal links now so yes probably same as Ramsdale/Neto links where Neto was Edus pick.
 

Paperino

It’s Timo Time

Country: Sweden
He was enthusiastic of Lokonge/Tavares aswell but they were identified by Edus team. From what I understand Viera was recommended by Edu based on availability/price/profile/agent connection. Tomiyasu yes can be Artetas pick as i remembered the Royal links now so yes probably same as Ramsdale/Neto links where Neto was Edus pick.

It doesnt work like that. Arteta must approve all the signings so there is no reason to put all the blame on Edu. They work in tandem.
 

CannonBals

Active Member
It doesnt work like that. Arteta must approve all the signings so there is no reason to put all the blame on Edu. They work in tandem.
Yes offcourse because before Arteta he was doing a mind-blowing job getting
Cedric/Mari and sitting in Kia's lap (Who is also his agent).

With the start he had there is no way on earth I would clear him. He has done a decent job after that stint but he is very lucky he did not lose his job with Don Raul. And that is why he would never have a final say over Arteta ever which ideally should not be the case with DoF.
 

1macca1

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
His off the ball movement is vital for us.
With Martinelli out, our left side was not working against Everton as both Trossard and Vieira are more On-Ball players.

He just needs to score some, get his confidence back and all will be good. He is a bit too timid in the final 3rd right now.
I’m not totally in the camp of off the ball movement absolving a player from not getting directly involved in the game but it can be a significant contribution. Against PSV I saw him going high and central during the first half which opened up the opportunity for Trossard to go 1v1 with their fullback.
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Rice
If you spend £67m on a left 8 and we're talking him up on the basis he works hard etc I think we're clutching at straws a little. It's good that he does put a shift in but he needs to contribute more.

It is an odd position because he doesn't see a huge amount of the ball compared to Ødegaard ( it was the same with Xhaka last year) but when you're a bit on the margins of a game tactically you've got to find a way to make an impact on the game when you do get it. He's not really doing that currently.

He needs an assist or to score a scrappy goal, hopefully that will bring a bit more self belief to his game.

Being honest it's not been a great start to his career here and he's fortunate we're winning games, if we were struggling for results he'd be even more under the microscope.
 

Tir Na Nog

Changes Opinion Every 5 Minutes

Country: Ireland
The problem is you can make an argument that he might be useful as an impact sub or as a utility man if he doesn't nail down that left 8 role, but he's a player so dependent on confidence that he'll struggle to make any real impact if not playing. The worry here and we're still a long way off it, is that he becomes Willian level of useless remember when after Arteta was finally forced to drop him he essentially did absolutely nothing for the last few months of his time here.

Like I said tho still a fair way off that. And tbh I thought he was fairly good vs PSV but he needs something to happen for him. In general I'm not a fan of players so dependent on things going their way to make an impact. The real hot and cold ones, Lacazette was similar, when he was on it he was good but when he was off he really was off.
 

drippin

Obsessed with "Mature Trusted Members"

Country: Finland
If you spend £67m on a left 8 and we're talking him up on the basis he works hard etc I think we're clutching at straws a little. It's good that he does put a shift in but he needs to contribute more.

It is an odd position because he doesn't see a huge amount of the ball compared to Ødegaard ( it was the same with Xhaka last year) but when you're a bit on the margins of a game tactically you've got to find a way to make an impact on the game when you do get it. He's not really doing that currently.

He needs an assist or to score a scrappy goal, hopefully that will bring a bit more self belief to his game.

Being honest it's not been a great start to his career here and he's fortunate we're winning games, if we were struggling for results he'd be even more under the microscope.
It's clear to all that he needs to do more, but people here are once again expecting instant success for a player that obviously needs time. This time it's a player who comes to a new system & team, and is learning back a midfield position, which is totally different to striker position.

It's silly that people judge him as a flop after a few games, when the team has won most of them, meaning Havertz has been part of it. He is taking it safe currently, being pretty great defensively all things considered, and the team keeps winning.

He is getting into positions, and even making some final passes, so the goals and assists will come in due time. And he will get more confident the more he adjusts to the team. The talent should be obvious to anyone if they have eyes.
 

Buhry

Established Member

Country: Norway
Several things wrong with this post. Firstly which Bozo buys flops and changes their position - Arsène Wenger - see Thierry Henry. Arsène changed so many players positions. Any Arsenal fan should be more than familiar with this yet your convinced changing a position is a bad idea.

Havertz wasn't a flop anyway, he was a regular starter for Chelsea and probably their best forward. They wanted to extend his contract but he wouldn't agree to being extended.

As for 'overpaying valuation' - what are you basing that on? This is a market where Mount costs about the same with only 1 year on his deal, Antony costs 20m Euros more, Caicedo costs 35m Euros more, Mudryk costs 25m Euros more. Havertz transfer fee wasn't overvalued in this market

As for his wages, we don't know what he's on. If he genuine is on 300k a week as reported, it's a big investment. That depends on his commercial worth too though. It maybe his commercial worth such as sponsorships brings a ton of money into AFC so we pay him more as a result.

Think it's fair the say he was a flop when they thought they were signing the next Thomas Muller or whatever and then after 3 years they are laughing at us and counting their lucky stars for signing him at a reduced price.

Still, I hope he works out. It's not looking good brev but time will tell.
 

drippin

Obsessed with "Mature Trusted Members"

Country: Finland
Think it's fair the say he was a flop when they thought they were signing the next Thomas Muller or whatever and then after 3 years they are laughing at us and counting their lucky stars for signing him at a reduced price.

Still, I hope he works out. It's not looking good brev but time will tell.
Chelsea fans were laughing at Arsenal for buying Jorginho last January, and even when he performed very well, they still laughed thinking it was Jorginho who cost Arsenal the title. Showing that they know zero football. When Arsenal in fact upgraded injured Elneny to Jorginho.

While they finished 12th, partly because they had worse midfielders and no proper experience and leadership in the squad.

They also laughed when they bought Auba from Barcelona, look at how that went. Let's see who has the last laugh.
 

drippin

Obsessed with "Mature Trusted Members"

Country: Finland
Why? Is it because you believe that off the ball play is overrated as a measure or that you don’t think Kai hasn’t particularly succeeded in that?
It's a bit like GDeep said that Ødegaard was finished the moment I brought up his pressure statistics.

Look at Ødegaard now, his workrate in the attack is world class, and he leads these statistics. And it's a big part why he is so complete player. Havertz has similar workrate and pressure potential.
 

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