Kia Joorabchian's Transfer Targets: January 2020

Read this post again and you will know why:

Why don’t we buy Upamecano who is just as equally as good as Koulibaly? And instead of losing the complete chunk of transfer fee after 5 years, we make a profit.
It’s like why you would get a 28 Neymar when you can get a 21 Mbappe who is just as good and you can earn money with it instead of losing huge money?

 

Koulibaly will turn 29 in June, not 34. He has at least four-five years of world class play in him. CB is the position with the second highest potential for longevity (First being GK, obviously).

Upamecano is my preferred feasible option at CB, but to say he is as good as Koulibaly just shows that you haven't watched much Koulibaly in your time. Koulibaly is arguably the second-best CB in the world right now behind VVD.

 

We are not getting Koulibaly for 40m + Kolasinac and we are also not getting Jovic + Ceballos + cash for Auba. Curb your delusions.

 

Of course I have watched Koulibaly play. He is great but he also had some bad games.

I think it just shows you haven’t watched Upamecano much in your time to understand how he is a world class talent and his performance is beyond amazing.

 

Fine you’re a tough negotiator...tell Madrid we will accept just Jovic and Ceballos for Auba, and Napoli that we will up our bid for Koulibaly to Sead + 40 million and £1

 

Because you come on here every few months with a list of about 10-15 young players and say (spam) how we should sign them, rinse and repeat.

Hence your 'broken record' tag..

 

I haven't watched Upamecano when he was at the top of my post in the Wish List thread?

Again, Upamecano is great and has the potential to be world class, but the only CB that deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Koulibaly right now is Virgil van Dijk.

 

Yea, because I watch them play in games and think we should sign some of them, and they are actually good.

 

Upamecano is world class. A 23 terry/ferdinand aren’t that much different to a 30 terry/ferdinand in terms of ability, they are already world class at that age.
Even if there exist tiny marginal difference between the ability of Upamecano and Koulibaly. Is that margin worth losing us over £60m of transfer fee and give up £80m of selling profit (£140m in total)?
If you use that attitude to buy other players, we are going to give up £140m after £140m.
Aouar is performing like a prime modric at the moment. Why not getting him instead of spend on let say an expensive prime modric, which their ability is almost identical?

 

Arsenal fans will believe anything.

 

I think you are overeager to crown young players before they actually get there. Upamecano and Aouar are both great players with huge upside, and I have both of them on my wish list, but it's a leap to claim they are already world class. Upamecano isn't Koulibaly yet, and Aouar isn't Modric yet. They can get there, but they aren't yet there. If they were, they would've been long gone to a Real Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern München already. The transfer choices simply depend on the ages of the players, what the team is trying to acclompish and what the exact asking prices are. If Koulibaly costs 100 mil and Upamecano 60 mil, I'd go Upa. If Koulibaly costs 70 mil and Upamecano 60 mil, I'd go Koulibaly.

You do have to realize that players who are already at the advanced stage can elevate a team, and elevate the young players alongside them. Almost all young teams who have succeeded at the highest echelon of football have featured players that fit that formula. Real life isn't Football Manager, the "get all the players with high upside" formula doesn't work as simply. Being an avid player of football manager games in the past myself, I recognize the feeling of wanting to build an entire team of talented youngsters, and I'm guilty of it myself sometimes, but there are more factors involved in what makes a football team successful than just raw talent.

 

Know Koulibaly is highly rated but being haven’t seen too much of him. Being 28 shouldn’t be a factor for not getting him, if anything it means he is more likely to have the maturity and leadership that our defence needs.

Also Per was of similar age when he signed and is one of the best centre backs we’ve signed in years. Who knows how much an older CB could help our current young crop.

 

less FM would do you well

 

Haven’t been playing any game for 4-5 years.
I didn’t get that from any game. Ferguson, Wenger and many other managers had build very young but successful team in the past.

 

Can't compare your list to Mbappe and neymar since they are nowhere near that. We can't pay 300mil for mbappe. So it's mute.

If we had infinite cash we should get the younger ones, I agree. But this is not the case.

And since we can't get those players, it's sometimes better to take the proven worldclass. instead of the talent thats much more of a risk.

 

It depends on how you evaluate a player and come up with a conclusion on whether if he is world class.

I look at pure individual football ability.
20 messi and 28 messi are the same. They are already world class player.

But what influence people judgement is how many title he has won, how Barcelona performed, how many Ballon d’or he has won, how many years consecutively he has scored over 30 goals.......

That makes you think a 28 messi is better than a 20 messi. But in fact, he can dribble past 4 players on the pitch at both age, he can score 3 in a game at both age, his ability and performance in the match has always been the same.

The factors that influence your judgement is irrelevant to the intrinsic value (the football ability) of a given player.

 

Messi is a phenomenon and isn't a fair measure for this sake of discussion. What he has accomplished at 20 and 28 is just incomprehensible. I understand your point and do agree to a degree but it's important to strike a natural balance which is what I think @Idiotologue is hinting.

A squad full of young talented players in an environment like this could fail at very delicate stages in their development due to factors beyond simply their natural talent. Players like Aouar and Upa are still to have up and downs and are at a very critical stage in their development and it's important to thrive in a situation that encourages them to make those mistakes and continue to improve.

With our current state, it's important that our youngsters have some direction, which prior to Miki, it's clear they didn't have. It's my issue with our senior players who are poor examples, Auba is a great player but his attitudes and habits in training may not be a good example for a player like Reiss or Eddie etc.

I think a player like Koulibaly if feasible would be massive to raise the level and provide stability as he's a top 3 centre back in the world today. Incredibly valuable despite being a money pit as he ages, he's worth it. If we're truly serious as a club, you get Koulibaly if feasible, Upamecano and Saliba to shore up our backline for the next 5 years and beyond.

 

If Koulibaly costs 70 mil and Upamecano 60 mil, you’d go Koulibaly?

We are going to lost 70m transfer budget and give up 40m of selling profit, a total lost of 110m in 5 years just from this deal, in exchange for an extremely tiny marginal difference of football ability between a world class player and another world class player.

Although I find that they are both playing at the same level, I will respect your judgement on both players.

But even with the ability difference you mentioned, the difference for their ability difference is worth a maximum of £30m to me.

That means if Koulibaly is free now and Upamecano price will rise from £60m to £90m in 5 years, I will think it’s logical to take the deal. Or similarly, if Koulibaly is worth £30m now and Upamecano is performing very averagely which his selling price stays the same in 5 years. Then I will accept the deal.

But Koulibaly is highly unlikely to cost that little and Upamecano is highly unlikely to perform bad in the future as he is a world class prospect. So the most logical approach is to buy Upamecano even if there exist a difference in ability as you’ve mentioned.

 

Some people lighting up their Christmas cigars with ten pound notes in this thread...

 

Upamecano won't be expensive in the summer as it will be his final year on his contract in June. It's pretty clear that Napoli won't get 100M for Koulibaly as he's almost 29 and they desperately need to retool their squad.