Konstantinos Mavropanos: 2019/20 Performances

[Toby]

it's a loan?

There's nothing concrete on the nature of the deal in there. There's one sentence though that says "[...] Mavropanos is supposed to gather more playing time." This points to a loan, and in Stuttgart's situation a loan would make sense, especially as we are apparently also interested in Waldemar Anton from Hannover 96 as another right footed CB; but as I said the article doesn't state anything concrete.

 

[14Henry]

Clubs are going to loan him and then there will come a time he has 1 year left and they will pick him up for next to nothing. Well run club we have here. We have to pay people to loan players and other clubs act like they are doing us a favour.

 

[truth_hurts]

Clubs are going to loan him and then there will come a time he has 1 year left and they will pick him up for next to nothing. Well run club we have here. We have to pay people to loan players and other clubs act like they are doing us a favour.

Agree. It's a mess. Loan with obligation to buy or tell them to do one. It's not like we're loaning a player with 4 or 5 years on his deal. We, like you have said, are paying for him to run down his contract.

 

[dashsnow17]

Clubs are going to loan him and then there will come a time he has 1 year left and they will pick him up for next to nothing. Well run club we have here. We have to pay people to loan players and other clubs act like they are doing us a favour.

He has 3 years left on his contract. You loan him for one more year, if he does really well you can bring him back, if he does ok but not well enough you can sell him for a good price with 2 years left. If he does terribly then you go back to the drawing board.

A loan is a good idea.

 

[14Henry]

He has 3 years left on his contract. You loan him for one more year, if he does really well you can bring him back, if he does ok but not well enough you can sell him for a good price with 2 years left. If he does terribly then you go back to the drawing board.

A loan is a good idea.

Yes and all that time your paying wages to him, buying more mediocre defenders to fill gaps "until he develops" and the same process starts all over again. 10 years from now we will look back and think we still havent bought a decent centre back because we were trying to develop one.

 

[dashsnow17]

Yes and all that time your paying wages to him, buying more mediocre defenders to fill gaps "until he develops" and the same process starts all over again. 10 years from now we will look back and think we still havent bought a decent centre back because we were trying to develop one.

I hate to break it to you but everything isn't fantastic all the f*cking time. We have way bigger problems than Mavro's development, and if today's reports are true then it looks like we're handling his development exactly the way we should be. Chill.

 

[dashsnow17]

We bought this guy for 2m from Greece ffs. That's not just cheap for today's standards, that'd be cheap like 20 years ago. If he goes on to make even 50 apps for the Arsenal first team it'd be impressive.

Imo we didn't get his development right initially. But he's had a good loan now, he just needs one more good loan and then we can properly assess what we've got.

 

[14Henry]

I hate to break it to you but everything isn't fantastic all the f*cking time. We have way bigger problems than Mavro's development, and if today's reports are true then it looks like we're handling his development exactly the way we should be. Chill.

Nobody is looking fantastic all the time. We have been sitting for 15 years without a title. We have seen our team fall away little by little over the last 5-6 years.

We are currently 9th in the league. On par with the likes of Burnley. Arsenal football club is on par with Burnely. Now nobody has a given right to win league and we are were we deserve to be.

But we need major help now. We need our scouts working overtime. We need Arteta working overtime. We need the players who are planning on staying working overtime.

Were are all the developed players today? Either sold or not good enough.

So while you may be patient for another 5-10 years were we will be talking about the same if not worse than we have been talking about for the last 10 years I'm not happy with it. Can I do anything about it? No I just support the team the best I can but I wont sit on a forum pinning my Hope's on someone who might be good in 3 years when we need someone now.

 

[dashsnow17]

Nobody is looking fantastic all the time. We have been sitting for 15 years without a title. We have seen our team fall away little by little over the last 5-6 years.

We are currently 9th in the league. On par with the likes of Burnley. Arsenal football club is on par with Burnely. Now nobody has a given right to win league and we are were we deserve to be.

But we need major help now. We need our scouts working overtime. We need Arteta working overtime. We need the players who are planning on staying working overtime.

Were are all the developed players today? Either sold or not good enough.

So while you may be patient for another 5-10 years were we will be talking about the same if not worse than we have been talking about for the last 10 years I'm not happy with it. Can I do anything about it? No I just support the team the best I can but I wont sit on a forum pinning my Hope's on someone who might be good in 3 years when we need someone now.

Our scouts are working, they found Mavro, they found Saliba, they found Martinelli etc. And i'm not here telling you to wait 5 years, i'm here telling you to wait one year. It's not a big deal.

 

[Toby]

Yes and all that time your paying wages to him, buying more mediocre defenders to fill gaps "until he develops" and the same process starts all over again. 10 years from now we will look back and think we still havent bought a decent centre back because we were trying to develop one.

Think you got to look at it more mid and longterm with this team, and imo this coming window offers a lot of chances but also doesn't seem to be the one for the big cut - imo a big cut like getting relegated and selling as well as buying 15 to 20 players is not a possibility for Arsenal.

Think we got to look at the team from 1 or two years on.

At CB there is the stopgap Luiz with a year left who won't leave this season, then there's Mustafi who I think is just unmovable. Chambers is out of plans due to his recent ACL. Mari has just been brought in. Holding is the bigger asset than Sokratis now needed for bodies at CB. That leaves Sokratis as the only really moveable CB right now.

That leaves us with David Luiz, Saliba, Mari, Mustafi, Holding and a returning Chambers. Maybe Holding could be moved on depending on Chambers' standing with the coach and his rehab.
This doesn't look too great tbh for the 20/21 season, but I guess that's just how it is right now.

But now lets look at what this could look like in 21/22.

David Luiz and Mustafi are out of contract. If Sokratis isn't sold this summer, he's out of contract, too. No fees but what do you expect - you cannot right all of past years' wrongs in one or two windows. Say Holding has been moved, too, either this summer or next, and let's say Mari has had a solid season.
This leaves us with Saliba, Mari, Chambers, a returning Mavropanos who has hopefully taken a good step forward out on loan. Now just one season later due to contracts running out and thus space in the team opening up, you got a completely new constellation at CB. This even leaves the door open to sell either Mari or Chambers or keep them both while bringing in another prefarably left footed CB of starting quality:

Saliba, Mavropanos, X, Mari, Chambers. That's a new makeup, young, experienced, and hopefully with quality. Mari and Saliba will have a full season at Arsenal under their belt, Chambers is homegrown and a longstanding teammember who's capeable to be solid when called upon plus player X. It's a good constellation with future and possible resale value. All without really forcing the issue this unusual summer or dreaming up moves for realistically currently almost unmoveable players.

Imo we need to take a step back from the fantasy of transforming the team or certain positions through transfers and sales alone, especially in one window or one season. Of course certain goals like at least getting EL or at best getting CL should be targets for next season, but as I see the situation at Arsenal and with this squad and its problems forcing the issue and trying to pluck holes or trying to lift the team by a stellar, expensive signing isn't the way to go. Think one needs to think a bit more organically and mid to longterm about restructuring and growing a new squad. It can only be done so much about this current situation in a given time frame and with a certain budget. I'd only be really worried if the club went on to sign more stopgaps and washed up ex stars this summer and next.

 

[Toby]

Were are all the developed players today? Either sold or not good enough.

So while you may be patient for another 5-10 years were we will be talking about the same if not worse than we have been talking about for the last 10 years I'm not happy with it. Can I do anything about it? No I just support the team the best I can but I wont sit on a forum pinning my Hope's on someone who might be good in 3 years when we need someone now.

What would your plan be, if I may ask?

I'm not wanting specific names or anything, just what your strategy would be, what you want Arsenal to do.

If it's not getting young, talented players anymore, developing them so you can profit off them either on the pitch or on your bank account and slowly building a new team, what's it then?

Remember Arsenal is financially tight anyway, now we've got Corona, too, so don't just tell me the club needs to splash the cash cause that ain't happening.

 

[14Henry]

Our scouts are working, they found Mavro, they found Saliba, they found Martinelli etc. And i'm not here telling you to wait 5 years, i'm here telling you to wait one year. It's not a big deal.

What would your plan be, if I may ask?

I'm not wanting specific names or anything, just what your strategy would be, what you want Arsenal to do.

If it's not getting young, talented players anymore, developing them so you can profit off them either off the pitch or on your bank account and slowly building a new team, what's it then?

Remember Arsenal is financially tight anyway, now we've got Corona, too, so don't just tell me the club needs to splash the cash cause that ain't happening.

I'm all for youth. However we cant look at Mavropanos as someone who is going to be a regular for us in 2 years and form a formidable partnership with Saliba.

We need players NOW. Not in 2 years because in 2 years we could be 12th/13th or worse.

And what happens then. Your prime players Saka, Martinelli, Tierney say. Enough is enough and leave. It's happened time and time again.

Years ago with Nasri/Fabregas/Van Persie era we were only a couple of signings like a top centre back and centre midfield away from being proper challengers but it never came.

What I want right now is for the club to hold their hands up and say the signings we made have not been good enough. Work out why.

I want us to identify a CB who has both experience and talent. Who has no real flaws. And I want us to buy them. If we have to sell Guendouzi to do it I'm all for that.

I want us to go for Partey. If we have to sell Torreria or Lacazette I'm fine with that.

But I want the club to act. Giving Luiz a new contract isnt acting. It's doing the easy non confrontational thing.

We have to act now because this club is slipping down fast and that is hard to stop. Good players will leave and we wont be able to attract anyone. This fall started 5-6 years ago and nobody has stopped it. Managers board nor a 200m strikeforce.

 

[Toby]

I want us to identify a CB who has both experience and talent. Who has no real flaws.

ok then...Easy as pie as a club with maybe no international football, restricted financial resources, the financial fallout of a virus pandemic and sheikh/oligarch clubs just having been given a free hand due to the City verdict.

 

[14Henry]

ok then...Easy as pie as a club with maybe no international football, restricted financial resources, the financial fallout of a virus pandemic and sheikh/oligarch clubs just having been given a free hand due to the City verdict.

You telling me there isnt a player who fits that. I'm not asking for Van Dijk. I'm asking for a 7/10 every week who can defend. I don't care if they cant hit a 60 yard pass because that is other players jobs.

And if we cant find a player like that how the hell can other teams?

 

[Toby]

You telling me there isnt a player who fits that. I'm not asking for Van Dijk. I'm asking for a 7/10 every week who can defend. I don't care if they cant hit a 60 yard pass because that is other players jobs.

And if we cant find a player like that how the hell can other teams?

Make up your mind, you either want this

a CB who has both experience and talent. Who has no real flaws

or that

a 7/10 every week who can defend

Because there's a big ****ing difference.

The former is Van Dijk or someone, the latter might just happen to be Mari.

 

[14Henry]

Make up your mind, you either want this



or that



Because there's a big ****ing difference.

The former is Van Dijk or someone, the latter might just happen to be Mari.

Jonny Evans. Experience. Talent. 7/10 every week. Joel Matip. Experience. Enough talent to play for Liverpool. Not a star but when called upon does a solid job. How much did he cost? Free.

That's one of the top of my head and how much did he cost. About 5m if even.

Talent doesnt mean the best in the world. It means has something about them.

You havent a clue whether Mari is good or not you havent seen him play 3 full games yet. He could be anything.

 

[Toby]

Jonny Evans. Experience. Talent. 7/10 every week. Joel Matip. Experience. Enough talent to play for Liverpool. Not a star but when called upon does a solid job. How much did he cost? Free.

That's one of the top of my head and how much did he cost. About 5m if even.

Talent doesnt mean the best in the world. It means has something about them.

You havent a clue whether Mari is good or not you havent seen him play 3 full games yet. He could be anything.

Yeah, Jonny Evans is a 7/10 guy, but not what you said, a CB without flaws and etc pp. The Evans who got ****ing skinned by Saka just recently.

Sure, Mari could be anything. Like Arsenal's 7/10 guy. Let's just wait and see him play. You're the one who cannot wait apparently.

This is tedious.

 

[14Henry]

Yeah, Jonny Evans is a 7/10 guy, but not what you said, a CB without flaws and etc pp. The Evans who got ****ing skinned by Saka just recently.

Sure, Mari could be anything. Like Arsenal's 7/10 guy. Let's just wait and see him play. You're the one who cannot wait apparently.

This is tedious.

Well listen we dont agree. We are sinking faster than the titanic and we need defenders yesterday. Unless we get a few in this summer this club will have another fruitless season.

 

[Toby]

Well listen we dont agree. We are sinking faster than the titanic and we need defenders yesterday. Unless we get a few in this summer this club will have another fruitless season.

Fair enoug.

But you know what this reminds me of? Kaiserslautern. One of the traditional big teams of Bundesliga history. Only team to ever win the league as a promoted team.

When they went down to second division, they wanted immediate success again, according to their past glory. They got credit after credit, did **** business with that money having put themselves under the pressure of being a massive, massive club (which they tbh traditionally are but just weren't after operating badly) trying to get back up and to the top as fast as possible...and now few years down the line they're insolvent and on the brink of existence.

Rather come clean with who you are and work accordingly to built on that brick by brick and get back to the top organically, than tryng to shift to a gear you don't even have. The world and business of football has changed and the only way to survive is either get unlimited funds from states or billionaires or be aware of who and where you are, put in good work and patience and get yourself back to the top by foot instead of with the helicopter.

 

[14Henry]

Fair enoug.

But you know what this reminds me of? Kaiserslautern. One of the traditional big teams of Bundesliga history. Only team to ever win the league as a promoted team.

When they went down to second division, they wanted immediate success again, according to their past glory. They got credit after credit, did **** business with that money having put themselves under the pressure of being a massive, massive club (which they tbh traditionally are but just weren't after operating badly) trying to get back up and to the top as fast as possible...and now few years down the line they're insolvent and on the brink of existence.

Rather come clean with who you are and work accordingly to built on that brick by brick and get back to the top organically, than tryng to shift to a gear you don't even have. The world and business of football has changed and the only way to survive is either get unlimited funds from states or billionaires or be aware of who and where you are, put in good work and patience and get yourself back to the top by foot instead of with the helicopter.

I get what your saying but I'm not asking for us to go crazy and spend more than we have.

I'm asking for some logical thinking which would be instead of spending 200m on a front 3 and patch up the defence with has been and cheap moves to maybe spread our investments abit better.

We always seem very happy to throw money at attack but apart from Mustafi we seem very reluctant to invest heavily on defence. Yet all our rivals are. Liverpool transformed with defensive signings. City too. United this season have seen some improvements. Leciester signed Perreria and Soyuncu and look better.

The only defender we have properly spent "big" on was Mustafi.

Wengers defence Lauren Toure Campbell Cole. Cheap as chips. But we got lucky with Cole through the academy and Sol free.

Next semi regular one. Sagna Kos Per Clichy. Again all cheap buys.

After that. Bellerin Mustafi Kos Monreal.

Now: Bellerin Mustafi Luiz Kolasinac Tierney.

Theres a clear pattern that Arsenal dont want to spend big on defenders. There is no surprise that defence has been a problem for a long time with this team. Of course theres always areas needing cover and spending big doesnt guarantee success as Mustafi has shown but by heck there has to be some defenders out there could help transform this team. And a 19 year old isnt going to be it.