Konstantinos Mavropanos: Our New BFG

[ptrcopp]

I make that one centre back in about 12 years. Maybe Vermaelen for a while was decent too. Am I being too harsh?

We have a terrible record with defenders!

I agree. We have. But when you compare to what the other top 6 (and even others tbh) have spent of CBs, we haven’t done too badly either

 

[Let's play Aubamawang]

That’s a great strike and all but can he clear the ball out of danger??!

I was more impressed by him covering the near post. Been a while since anyone thought to do that in an Arsenal shirt.

 

[Big Poppa]

I agree. We have. But when you compare to what the other top 6 (and even others tbh) have spent of CBs, we haven’t done too badly either

You can live in a tent and reassure yourself that compared to what others have spent building a house, you haven’t done too badly.

 

[Jackie_Treehorn]

Just here to like the thread title.

 

[say yes]

Did brilliantly under zero pressure. The first time he was actually tested it was against Leicester and he got red card.

So nobody really knows yet.

Agree with your conclusion but the first bit is harsh, he was great at Old Trafford.

 

[pigge]

I think having sokratis here might be very good for him

 

[ptrcopp]

You can live in a tent and reassure yourself that compared to what others have spent building a house, you haven’t done too badly.

Do we need to go into why that’s not an accurate analogy?

Just because I say We have done well with what we have spent, That doesn’t mean I don’t think we shouldn’t be aiming for better, or spending more.

I compared what we spent with our rivals in another thread. Our current first choice CB pairing cost £45m. I count 4 cbs in the rest of the top 6 that cost more than that individually. And every first choice partnership in the rest of the top 4 cost more than that, inc Sp**s, and many others in the division.

We have done well. But we need to do better

 

[Big Poppa]

Do we need to go into why that’s not an accurate analogy?

Just because I say We have done well with what we have spent, That doesn’t mean I don’t think we shouldn’t be aiming for better, or spending more.

I compared what we spent with our rivals in another thread. Our current first choice CB pairing cost £45m. I count 4 cbs in the rest of the top 6 that cost more than that individually. And every first choice partnership in the rest of the top 4 cost more than that, inc Sp**s, and many others in the division.

We have done well. But we need to do better

I'm unsure why cost is relevant. We consistently have the worst defensive record of those teams and are bottom of the big 6 "mini league" every year, so we've got what we paid for. Europa League.

I'm just challenging you on how you define "done well" because I see a team in first place that was ridiculed defensively last season but upgraded every starter in it's back 5.

 

[Tourbillion]

What's the point in this kid's Arsenal career? Where is he FFS?

 

[Ricardinho]

What's the point in this kid's Arsenal career? Where is he FFS?

He been injured mate and as much as we all wanted to see him yesterday I guessing those than know better than us decided he wasn't ready to play just yet.

 

[ptrcopp]

I'm unsure why cost is relevant. We consistently have the worst defensive record of those teams and are bottom of the big 6 "mini league" every year, so we've got what we paid for. Europa League.

I'm just challenging you on how you define "done well" because I see a team in first place that was ridiculed defensively last season but upgraded every starter in it's back 5.

@Makingtrax dpea a good job of explaining why cost is relevant.

We have spent less on defenders than others in the league, for example Everton. Even Leicester spent more on defenders than we have in the last 2 seasons.

Based on that we have got value for money there. We have done well in that sense.

I want us to spend more because that is the way you can compete.

Liverpool haven’t changed the whole back 5. They spend £140m over two transfer windows signing the last two pieces of the puzzle. We bought players in the same positions for a combined £35m.

I think for the quality they have, Sokratis especially is value for money. At the same time, it’s not contradictory to say I’d rather we were buying better players.

 

[truth_hurts]

We fell luckily in attaining Kolasinac on a free, as he was a 30m player and having Bellerin come from the youth teams. We've spent over 50m on Mustafi and Sokratis and Leno was signed for 25m.

I really think organisation is our biggest issue. Okay yes we don't have a Van Dijk, but I look at the options that City and Chelsea have at cb and I don't see a huge difference between our options and theirs. It depends on how much you think Kompany has and how much you rate luiz.

I look at Bellerin and Kolasinac/Monreal are they vastly inferior to TAA and Robertson or Azpilucueta and Alonso? Not for me. It's the way our teams are set up.

So how does this link to Mavropanos? I worry for him. He looked very promising last year, but how will he slot into a defence which leaks goals for sport and play a budget version of city and Liverpool's playing out from the back? I think he'll find it difficult. Hell even Koscielny looks crap and I don't think he is as bad a s he's looking. I'd rather sort some of our issues, before trying to integrate a young player in defence.

 

[Makingtrax]

We fell luckily in attaining Kolasinac on a free, as he was a 30m player and having Bellerin come from the youth teams. We've spent over 50m on Mustafi and Sokratis and Leno was signed for 25m.

I really think organisation is our biggest issue. Okay yes we don't have a Van Dijk, but I look at the options that City and Chelsea have at cb and I don't see a huge difference between our options and theirs. It depends on how much you think Kompany has and how much you rate luiz.

I look at Bellerin and Kolasinac/Monreal are they vastly inferior to TAA and Robertson or Azpilucueta and Alonso? Not for me. It's the way our teams are set up.

So how does this link to Mavropanos? I worry for him. He looked very promising last year, but how will he slot into a defence which leaks goals for sport and play a budget version of city and Liverpool's playing out from the back? I think he'll find it difficult. Hell even Koscielny looks crap and I don't think he is as bad a s he's looking. I'd rather sort some of our issues, before trying to integrate a young player in defence.

But if you watch Kola, Sokratis and Mustafi play they are full of rash mistakes. Organisationally Sokratis is very good, but he loses his head at odd moments. And in the EPL those are the moments that count. Like the challenge on Salah from behind . . Pen. Like the challenge just outside the box against Sp**s that caused the Dier goal.

And don’t start me on Mustafi, his hot headed challenges go back years.

These are not players that make the difference in tight matches against top 6 teams, they’ll let you down.

Kola is good offensively but is very poor in defence. He ambles back and doesn’t appear to know where to be. Maybe Emery can work on him, same with Bellerin.

Currently our defence is a shambles though. And Emery can only do so much, like Wenger tried desperately. We need new personnel. Maybe Mavropanos will come good, I hope so.

 

[Beksl]

But if you watch Kola, Sokratis and Mustafi play they are full of rash mistakes. Organisationally Sokratis is very good, but he loses his head at odd moments. And in the EPL those are the moments that count. Like the challenge on Salah from behind . . Pen. Like the challenge just outside the box against Sp**s that caused the Dier goal.

And don’t start me on Mustafi, his hot headed challenges go back years.

These are not players that make the difference in tight matches against top 6 teams, they’ll let you down.

Kola is good offensively but is very poor in defence. He ambles back and doesn’t appear to know where to be. Maybe Emery can work on him, same with Bellerin.

Currently our defence is a shambles though. And Emery can only do so much, like Wenger tried desperately. We need new personnel. Maybe Mavropanos will come good, I hope so.

Kola and Mustafi are Wenger's players and Sokratis (player under a new regime) is the best out of this bunch this season. Emery will need a couple of more transfer windows to put his own stamp on the team, until then we'll have to endure shambles that was left by Wenger.

 

[Makingtrax]

Kola and Mustafi are Wenger's players and Sokratis (player under a new regime) is the best out of this bunch this season. Emery will need a couple of more transfer windows to put his own stamp on the team, until then we'll have to endure shambles that was left by Wenger.

Look at these key players transferred in, not including home grown players:
Xhaka, Torreira
Cech, Leno
Laca, Auba
Kola, Lich
Mustafi, Sokratis
The first one was brought in by our previous transfer team, the second by our current transfer team. Do you see a big gap in quality?

 

[Beksl]

Look at these key players transferred in, not including home grown players:
Xhaka, Torreira
Cech, Leno
Laca, Auba
Kola, Lich
Mustafi, Sokratis
The first one was brought in by our previous transfer team, the second by our current transfer team. Do you see a big gap in quality?

Thought we were talking about defence not the whole team. We have a world class attack and a midfield that is of top4 quality and will only get better. Where we lack is defence and wide areas where Wenger criminally neglected the glaring issues. If I go by your list and focus only on players from those areas you can clearly see we already brought a number of replacement that turned out far better than Wenger's players.

Leno is far more adequate than Cech for what we're trying to achive ie playing from the back, he's also a better shot stopper. Lich didn't get a sniff before our injury crisis so he wasn't meant to be anywhere near the first team. He was brought for other reasons mainly stirring the ship within the squad as was pointed out in the recent reports where he's supposedly having seminars for the players and is considered as a role model for a professional footballer. There's also no doubt in my mind Sokratis is having a better season than Mustafi, I'd even go so far to say he's bringing out the better version of Mustafi with how he defends.

There's not a big gap in quality per se but the trend is positive and with more transfer windows and hopefully sufficient financial backing I firmly believe Emery will do a better job in defense and wide areas than Wenger in his last years here.

 

[Makingtrax]

Thought we were talking about defence not the whole team. We have a world class attack and a midfield that is of top4 quality and will only get better. Where we lack is defence and wide areas where Wenger criminally neglected the glaring issues. If I go by your list and focus only on players from those areas you can clearly see we already brought a number of replacement that turned out far better than Wenger's players.

Leno is far more adequate than Cech for what we're trying to achive ie playing from the back, he's also a better shot stopper. Lich didn't get a sniff before our injury crisis so he wasn't meant to be anywhere near the first team. He was brought for other reasons mainly stirring the ship within the squad as was pointed out in the recent reports where he's supposedly having seminars for the players and is considered as a role model for a professional footballer. There's also no doubt in my mind Sokratis is having a better season than Mustafi, I'd even go so far to say he's bringing out the better version of Mustafi with how he defends.

There's not a big gap in quality per se but the trend is positive and with more transfer windows and hopefully sufficient financial backing I firmly believe Emery will do a better job in defense and wide areas than Wenger in his last years here.

Well, I for one certainly hope you’re right bro. Although I believe in Emery, I haven’t seen any sign of a defensive improvement yet. But as you say we need more transfer windows and change of heart from Kroenke.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I'm unsure why cost is relevant. We consistently have the worst defensive record of those teams and are bottom of the big 6 "mini league" every year, so we've got what we paid for. Europa League.

I'm just challenging you on how you define "done well" because I see a team in first place that was ridiculed defensively last season but upgraded every starter in it's back 5.

By "bottom of the big 6 'mini league' every year," do you mean every year except all the years between 1994-95 and 2017-18? :confused:

 

[Makingtrax]

By "bottom of the big 6 'mini league' every year," do you mean every year except all the years between 1994-95 and 2017-18? :confused:

How Wenger did that with his spending his crazy.

 

[Taylor Gang Gunners]

Got injured at a terrible time- he would’ve got plenty of EL minutes.

It’s evident we aren’t gonna sign a CB this month, hopefully he can be a surprise package and stake his claim. From the little we’ve seen so far he looks a real talent.

#201Dinos