OFFICIAL Konstantinos Mavropanos (Out)

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yousif_arsenal

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If Mavropanos is loaned out it means that the manager believes all the ****e defenders we have are better than him. That doesnt bode well for him or for us.
i don't think so if we missed europe he'll have so little chance to play here and he not starting quality for us yet so a loan to bundesliga is very good for his development we Already have Saliba coming and if he show what he capable of he'll start but can't have 2 very young players as starting CB here. still think we'll sell Sokratis Mustafi at least and Holding if good offer come in.
 

14Henry

Well-Known Member
i don't think so if we missed europe he'll have so little chance to play here and he not starting quality for us yet so a loan to bundesliga is very good for his development we Already have Saliba coming and if he show what he capable of he'll start but can't have 2 very young players as starting CB here. still think we'll sell Sokratis Mustafi at least and Holding if good offer come in.

So how long is it going to take him to develop? Another year in Bundesliga he will be 23. He will then need possibly another year with us to get adjusted to the pace of the PL as he has played so little at this level. By then hes 25. We have to wait until hes 25 before we maybe have him ready? He looks very much like hes going to go down the same route as Holding Chambers etc. At 22 if he had someone special about him he would be with us now. Not almost getting relegated in budesliga 2. Joe Gomez is similar age and is starting. Christiansen was young starting at Chelsea getting game time. Yes central defenders need time to mature. But the half decent ones are starting in Premier League teams earlier than 24/25.
 

Toby Andrl

Part Time Stuttgart Fan
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If Mavropanos is loaned out it means that the manager believes all the ****e defenders we have are better than him. That doesnt bode well for him or for us.

Translated this assessment by a Nuremburg fan:

"He's got everything to become a complete CB: not only because of his heigth but also because he's got a lot of bounce when jumping he is very good in the air, apart from that he's also generally physically strong.
At the same time he's got good speed and thus manages to overtake forwards again. He often anticipates opposition passes and initiates turnovers. He's also very good with the ball. In a game against Bielefeld he did a one touch pass over half of the field which landed exactly at the feet of his teammate - impressive. But I'm mostly impressed by his mentality; despite only being loaned out he gives everything for the club. We all probably remember two scenes, first when he spectacularly cleared the second shot after a penalty against Sandhausen, and second when he cleared a ball off the line against Heidenheim and proceeded to go bonkers and cheer - great guy!"

I haven't followed Nuremburg myseld, and this might be a tad positive, and it's still 2. Bundesliga, but even from the beginning when he came to Arsenal there was a lot of talk about him having bags of potential and being very complete as a CB. This assessment backs that.

Truly hope Arsenal have backed down and allowed an option to buy into the loan contract:lol:
 

14Henry

Well-Known Member
Translated this assessment by a Nuremburg fan:

"He's got everything to become a complete CB: not only because of his heigth but also because he's got a lot of bounce when jumping he is very good in the air, apart from that he's also generally physically strong.
At the same time he's got good speed and thus manages to overtake forwards again. He often anticipates opposition passes and initiates turnovers. He's also very good with the ball. In a game against Bielefeld he did a one touch pass over half of the field which landed exactly at the feet of his teammate - impressive. But I'm mostly impressed by his mentality; despite only being loaned out he gives everything for the club. We all probably remember two scenes, first when he spectacularly cleared the second shot after a penalty against Sandhausen, and second when he cleared a ball off the line against Heidenheim and proceeded to go bonkers and cheer - great guy!"

I haven't followed Nuremburg myseld, and this might be a tad positive, and it's still 2. Bundesliga, but even from the beginning when he came to Arsenal there was a lot of talk about him having bags of potential and being very complete as a CB. This assessment backs that.

Truly hope Arsenal have backed down and allowed an option to buy into the loan contract:lol:

Mustafi would probably look like Maldini in that league.
 

Toby Andrl

Part Time Stuttgart Fan
Trusted ✔️
So how long is it going to take him to develop? Another year in Bundesliga he will be 23. He will then need possibly another year with us to get adjusted to the pace of the PL as he has played so little at this level. By then hes 25. We have to wait until hes 25 before we maybe have him ready? He looks very much like hes going to go down the same route as Holding Chambers etc. At 22 if he had someone special about him he would be with us now. Not almost getting relegated in budesliga 2. Joe Gomez is similar age and is starting. Christiansen was young starting at Chelsea getting game time. Yes central defenders need time to mature. But the half decent ones are starting in Premier League teams earlier than 24/25.

Got to remember that Mavropanos was almost constantly injured since joining Arsenal, so of course he's lost a bit of time.

And yeah, this waiting game for players to mature until they can pay it off is part of the talent route. Not every single talent breaks through at 18 or 20, some need until their mid twenties to develop. If you don't want that you have to buy ready made players and that will be costly, especially if they're supposed to be of the standard for a Top 4 or title challenging Arsenal.
 

14Henry

Well-Known Member
Got to remember that Mavropanos was almost constantly injured since joining Arsenal, so of course he's lost a bit of time.

And yeah, this waiting game for players to mature until they can pay it off is part of the talent route. Not every single talent breaks through at 18 or 20, some need until their mid twenties to develop. If you don't want that you have to buy ready made players and that will be costly, especially if they're supposed to be of the standard for a Top 4 or title challenging Arsenal.

Yeah but where is the limit. If he is rated so highly are you telling me he still isnt better than Holding or Mustafi. Is he a worse player than them at this very moment?
 

Toby Andrl

Part Time Stuttgart Fan
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Yeah but where is the limit. If he is rated so highly are you telling me he still isnt better than Holding or Mustafi. Is he a worse player than them at this very moment?

I think worse has to be looked at in a certain way here. I'd rather say he's not yet ready for the PL than say he's "worse" than Mustafi or Holding. I don't think it would be wise to throw him in the deep end here and hope along another kid like Saliba he can suddenly fix the defence alone on talent. You don't want to burn talents in certain situations.

He's probably "worse" than the current Arsenal lot as he's not fully developed yet, and I wouldn't call that worse per se, he's just not ready. Down the line I think he's definitely got the potential to become a way better CB than any of those, though.

Think with Saliba next season some on here will have a rude awakening regarding their expectations of a 19 year old.
 

14Henry

Well-Known Member
I think worse has to be looked at in a certain way here. I'd rather say he's not yet ready for the PL than say he's "worse" than Mustafi or Holding. I don't think it would be wise to throw him in the deep end here and hope along another kid like Saliba he can suddenly fix the defence alone on talent. You don't want to burn talents in certain situations.

He's probably "worse" than the current Arsenal lot as he's not fully developed yet, and I wouldn't call that worse per se, he's just not ready. Down the line I think he's definitely got the potential to become a way better CB than any of those, though.

Think with Saliba next season some on here will have a rude awakening regarding their expectations of a 19 year old.

I agree with your last part. People are talking about him in the same sentence as Van Dijk. There hasnt been a single young defender around 19/20 who has signed from a mid table team at hit the ground running.

My issue with us is we think young players will be the answer down the line. A few years ago people were talking about Holding and Chambers needing a couple of years to develop. They've had them. They arent Arsenal good enough. Bin.

Now we are putting our time and effort in Mav who will be of similar elk. Next it will be Medly. You should know by 22/23 if the player is going to make a top player. It isnt always easy. Some players develop later but you should have seen glimpses at a good level. He has shown nothing in my opinion in an Arsenal shirt. 1 or 2 good games isnt enough. He also got sent off for us.
 

Toby Andrl

Part Time Stuttgart Fan
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Holding and Chambers

I think they are actually two good examples talent development could work here at Arsenal. I do rate both as solid options to have among 4 or 5 CBs at Arsenal. Both' development has been hampered by injuries, too. Think they've both shown that healthy and fit they can do a job if need be.

It's just that the best point to sell one of them and turn him into a profit has passed one time too often. Buying two young, english CBs for a combined ~ 20m, letting them develop for a few years, both become basically solid PL defenders, one you keep as 3rd/4th choice, the other one you sell to make a profit - that's a good example of working talent development, the only problem at Arsenal being the club never knows when to actually sell.
 

14Henry

Well-Known Member
I think they are actually two good examples talent development could work here at Arsenal. I do rate both as solid options to have among 4 or 5 CBs at Arsenal. Both' development has been hampered by injuries, too. Think they've both shown that healthy and fit they can do a job if need be.

It's just that the best point to sell one of them and turn him into a profit has passed one time too often. Buying two young, english CBs for a combined ~ 20m, letting them develop for a few years, both become basically solid PL defenders, one you keep as 3rd/4th choice, the other one you sell to make a profit - that's a good example of working talent development, the only problem at Arsenal being the club never knows when to actually sell.

Correct. Neither are good enough to be our starting centre backs. It's time to cut the cord. We kept joel Campbell on about 16 loans.

We have had other examples of holding onto players far too long. Players signed should have 2 years. If after 2 years they havent made the team better sell. People say players dont want to leave but if you manage them correct and make it clear to them they will not play very few players will sit for another 2 years just to pick up 30k a week more when in reality money is no problem for them when they go to the ATM it's basically unlimited.
 

Toby Andrl

Part Time Stuttgart Fan
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Neither are good enough to be our starting centre backs.

You don't just need starting quality CBs. Ideally you have two of those and then 2 or 3 squad players on different levels of quality, with e.g. the drop off from 1 and 2 to 3 ideally not being too steep.

You can't employ 4 starting quality CBs. Too expensive, too much demand to actually start and play games, wages, etc. Holding and Chamber are imo very good 3rd/4th/5th choice CBs depening on the quality of your two starters.

But agree with your second paragraph, it's exactly what I said. Arsenal isn't very good at finding the right time to sell certain players.
 

Goonger

Well-Known Member
Translated this assessment by a Nuremburg fan:

"He's got everything to become a complete CB: not only because of his heigth but also because he's got a lot of bounce when jumping he is very good in the air, apart from that he's also generally physically strong.
At the same time he's got good speed and thus manages to overtake forwards again. He often anticipates opposition passes and initiates turnovers. He's also very good with the ball. In a game against Bielefeld he did a one touch pass over half of the field which landed exactly at the feet of his teammate - impressive. But I'm mostly impressed by his mentality; despite only being loaned out he gives everything for the club. We all probably remember two scenes, first when he spectacularly cleared the second shot after a penalty against Sandhausen, and second when he cleared a ball off the line against Heidenheim and proceeded to go bonkers and cheer - great guy!"

I haven't followed Nuremburg myseld, and this might be a tad positive, and it's still 2. Bundesliga, but even from the beginning when he came to Arsenal there was a lot of talk about him having bags of potential and being very complete as a CB. This assessment backs that.

Truly hope Arsenal have backed down and allowed an option to buy into the loan contract:lol:

Think he would be a big success at Stuttgart mate. He has traits that would endear him to fans, his attitude, his bravery etc. However, he seems to have a very decent all round game for a defender as well.

I can understand that we might think he needs another year to develop. What hurts though is that he has attributes that we currently lack. We are soft at set pieces, but Mavro seems quite dominant in the air. Our defenders lack raw power, yet he has that. He seems to love to defend, our defenders seem to prefer going forward. I just hope we don't have to suffer the same nonsense next year while watching him excel in the Bundesliga.
 

14Henry

Well-Known Member
Think he would be a big success at Stuttgart mate. He has traits that would endear him to fans, his attitude, his bravery etc. However, he seems to have a very decent all round game for a defender as well.

I can understand that we might think he needs another year to develop. What hurts though is that he has attributes that we currently lack. We are soft at set pieces, but Mavro seems quite dominant in the air. Our defenders lack raw power, yet he has that. He seems to love to defend, our defenders seem to prefer going forward. I just hope we don't have to suffer the same nonsense next year while watching him excel in the Bundesliga.

What I dont get is why would a loan in the Championship not be better for him? We seen Chelsea loan Mount and Tomori there and it worked a treat. Surely learning in the country you plan to play in makes more sense.
 

Goonger

Well-Known Member
What I dont get is why would a loan in the Championship not be better for him? We seen Chelsea loan Mount and Tomori there and it worked a treat. Surely learning in the country you plan to play in makes more sense.

They probably hope to sell him long term, and Bundesliga teams seem to have most interest. Disappointed if that's the case.
 

14Henry

Well-Known Member
They probably hope to sell him long term, and Bundesliga teams seem to have most interest. Disappointed if that's the case.

But that makes no sense considering even championship teams have more money than a lot of the lower budesliga teams.
 

Goonger

Well-Known Member
But that makes no sense considering even championship teams have more money than a lot of the lower budesliga teams.

I know. Unless they think top league in Germany is more beneficial in terms of actually developing the player more than Championship football. That can be open to debate I suppose.
 
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