OFFICIAL Konstantinos Mavropanos (Out)

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MikelHadADream

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Wish he were still here. I still trust his judgement over Edu’s.

Think given more time he would have unearthed a lot of gems for us.

His track record was poor when he was here. Auba was a no brainer. We will likely be loosing money on Leno, Torreira, Guendouzi ect. Lichstiener was a disaster and Mavropanos has been pointless so far, let's see if we make any money on him.
 

dashsnow17

Sounds Like Hairspray
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Wish he were still here. I still trust his judgement over Edu’s.

Think given more time he would have unearthed a lot of gems for us.

For me it's not even uncontroversial that we made a mistake by sacking him. He was the talent spotter, but his personality didn't fit in the structure Gazidis set up, so Gazidis chose Raul over him. A year later Raul was sacked. It's clear as day we made the wrong decision, should have recognised that Sven's eye was more important than Raul's contact book, we didn't and we're still paying the price for it.
 

Toby Andrl

Part Time Stuttgart Fan
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His track record was poor when he was here. Auba was a no brainer. We will likely be loosing money on Leno, Torreira, Guendouzi ect. Lichstiener was a disaster and Mavropanos has been pointless so far, let's see if we make any money on him.


Torreira was a much needed additon in defensive midfield and had an interesting profile similar to Kantés and was okay priced at around 30m. E.g. Mislintat did a similar profile based search at Stuttgart and found Wataru Endo who's been one of Bundesliga's best DMs this season. Signings can work out or not for various reasons, but I don't see much fault in the Torreira signing - of course hindsight is always better.

Mavropnaos has been "pointless" because he didn't play that much. Either because he wasn't selected or injured but he's just now proven he's imo probably got the tools to succeed in the Prem or become a top Bundesliga defender. If he's sold, it should be with a nice financial upside.

Regarding Guendouzi Mislintat very early on talked about scouting and signing him and that he had a lot of great tools but was also very, very, raw. Not his fault neither Emery nor Arteta got his head fixed.

When Lichtsteiner was signed, Bellerin was still a much better player, not often injured and a deadset starter. There's not too many players out there agreeing to sit on the bench for 37 of 38 games if chance doesn't hit. Also, Lichtsteiner's physical dropoff was kind of unexpected as he didn't show any signs of that during his last season in Italy. On top of that it's said he was an important figure off the pitch and specifically also brought in for his professional character and tactical understanding to help the coach.

As you say, Auba was a no brainer. The team desperatly needed goals, he was the only proven top scorer on the market and Mislintat had connections to the player and Dortmund.

Sokratis was meant to be cheap stopgap at a time when Koscielny was past it and no other reliable CB at the club. In a perfect world Kos leaves at some point, Sokratis gets faded out while Chambers and Holding stay fit to develop longer than they have, plus Mavro develops. And I'm sure Mislintat had more CBs on his list. At that time it was very much about finances and finding short term, cheap solutions to fix a myriad of holes in the squad to quickly get back into the Top 4.

In hindsight sure some of these transfers backfired to certain degrees, but transfers fail for various reasons. The thing is I actually agree Mislintat's hit and miss ratio at Arsenal is lower than that of his at Dortmund or now Stuttgart - for whatever reasons really but I suspect a mix of problematic leadership structures, limited finances, high earners eating large chunks of wages and thus hard to get out (remember even before Mislintat, Sanllehi et al Wenger wanted Mustafi gone but couldn't manage it and it took until 2021 the guy was gone), immediate focus on short term goals (Top 4) and thus the need to try and quickly fix a lot of holes
on relatively less money.

There's been a lot of talk about players Mislintat looked at during his Arsenal time who are in a very, very different bracket than those he immediately brought in: Kai Havertz, Ismaila Sarr, Silas Wamangituka, he already looked at Pepe, Tierney apparently was on Arsenal's list way before he was signed. He obviously works on longterm projects but had only gotten one winter and one summer window in which the squad was in dire need of quick fixes like desperatly needing goals asap. Think down the line we would've seen a very different transfer strategy to the one we saw in those two windows and also now under Edu/Arteta.


For me it's not even uncontroversial that we made a mistake by sacking him. He was the talent spotter, but his personality didn't fit in the structure Gazidis set up, so Gazidis chose Raul over him. A year later Raul was sacked. It's clear as day we made the wrong decision, should have recognised that Sven's eye was more important than Raul's contact book, we didn't and we're still paying the price for it.

Sort of with you here, but it's still not as easy as saying scouting vs. contacts or something. Mislintat has spoken up about the importance of contacts and a personal network, too. But the way Mislintat is working and talking at Stuttgart, it's clear he has very specific ideas on signings players and building squads. It worked at Dortmund because of the harmonic setup of him, Klopp and Zorc and it works at Stuttgart due to him being the top dog in terms of squad management and his good relationship with Hitzlsperger. If you don't see eye to eye with him and trust him, he's gone.
 

Breezy ®

Well-Known Member
For me it's not even uncontroversial that we made a mistake by sacking him. He was the talent spotter, but his personality didn't fit in the structure Gazidis set up, so Gazidis chose Raul over him. A year later Raul was sacked. It's clear as day we made the wrong decision, should have recognised that Sven's eye was more important than Raul's contact book, we didn't and we're still paying the price for it.

Was he sacked? I thought he walked after being overlooked for the sporting director role.
 

MikelHadADream

Well-Known Member
Torreira was a much needed additon in defensive midfield and had an interesting profile similar to Kantés and was okay priced at around 30m. E.g. Mislintat did a similar profile based search at Stuttgart and found Wataru Endo who's been one of Bundesliga's best DMs this season. Signings can work out or not for various reasons, but I don't see much fault in the Torreira signing - of course hindsight is always better.

Mavropnaos has been "pointless" because he didn't play that much. Either because he wasn't selected or injured but he's just now proven he's imo probably got the tools to succeed in the Prem or become a top Bundesliga defender. If he's sold, it should be with a nice financial upside.

Regarding Guendouzi Mislintat very early on talked about scouting and signing him and that he had a lot of great tools but was also very, very, raw. Not his fault neither Emery nor Arteta got his head fixed.

When Lichtsteiner was signed, Bellerin was still a much better player, not often injured and a deadset starter. There's not too many players out there agreeing to sit on the bench for 37 of 38 games if chance doesn't hit. Also, Lichtsteiner's physical dropoff was kind of unexpected as he didn't show any signs of that during his last season in Italy. On top of that it's said he was an important figure off the pitch and specifically also brought in for his professional character and tactical understanding to help the coach.

As you say, Auba was a no brainer. The team desperatly needed goals, he was the only proven top scorer on the market and Mislintat had connections to the player and Dortmund.

Sokratis was meant to be cheap stopgap at a time when Koscielny was past it and no other reliable CB at the club. In a perfect world Kos leaves at some point, Sokratis gets faded out while Chambers and Holding stay fit to develop longer than they have, plus Mavro develops. And I'm sure Mislintat had more CBs on his list. At that time it was very much about finances and finding short term, cheap solutions to fix a myriad of holes in the squad to quickly get back into the Top 4.

In hindsight sure some of these transfers backfired to certain degrees, but transfers fail for various reasons. The thing is I actually agree Mislintat's hit and miss ratio at Arsenal is lower than that of his at Dortmund or now Stuttgart - for whatever reasons really but I suspect a mix of problematic leadership structures, limited finances, high earners eating large chunks of wages and thus hard to get out (remember even before Mislintat, Sanllehi et al Wenger wanted Mustafi gone but couldn't manage it and it took until 2021 the guy was gone), immediate focus on short term goals (Top 4) and thus the need to try and quickly fix a lot of holes
on relatively less money.

There's been a lot of talk about players Mislintat looked at during his Arsenal time who are in a very, very different bracket than those he immediately brought in: Kai Havertz, Ismaila Sarr, Silas Wamangituka, he already looked at Pepe, Tierney apparently was on Arsenal's list way before he was signed. He obviously works on longterm projects but had only gotten one winter and one summer window in which the squad was in dire need of quick fixes like desperatly needing goals asap. Think down the line we would've seen a very different transfer strategy to the one we saw in those two windows and also now under Edu/Arteta.




Sort of with you here, but it's still not as easy as saying scouting vs. contacts or something. Mislintat has spoken up about the importance of contacts and a personal network, too. But the way Mislintat is working and talking at Stuttgart, it's clear he has very specific ideas on signings players and building squads. It worked at Dortmund because of the harmonic setup of him, Klopp and Zorc and it works at Stuttgart due to him being the top dog in terms of squad management and his good relationship with Hitzlsperger. If you don't see eye to eye with him and trust him, he's gone.

To be fair you make a very good point about the leadership structures and the short term goals that the board probably set him. I don't think that type of environment suits him.

That being said, the signings of Sokratis/Torreira/Guendouzi/Mavropanos have cost the club a lot of money, as well as imparting a huge opportunity cost.

Without trying to sound disparaging, Stuttgart/the Bundesliga is a good fit for him. There is far less competition/pressure in that league, and much more scope for clubs like Stuttgart to buy and blood in a load of youngsters. It looks great when it succeeds, but in reality I think it's very hard to do in the PL, and especially at a "top 6" club.
 

Rex Banter

Got Swerved By Gallas
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To be fair you make a very good point about the leadership structures and the short term goals that the board probably set him. I don't think that type of environment suits him.

That being said, the signings of Sokratis/Torreira/Guendouzi/Mavropanos have cost the club a lot of money, as well as imparting a huge opportunity cost.

Without trying to sound disparaging, Stuttgart/the Bundesliga is a good fit for him. There is far less competition/pressure in that league, and much more scope for clubs like Stuttgart to buy and blood in a load of youngsters. It looks great when it succeeds, but in reality I think it's very hard to do in the PL, and especially at a "top 6" club.

Guendouzi and Mavrapanos are probably going to be hugely profitable deals tbf. Think total outlay for both was under 10M and each one is probably worth a bit in excess of that.

If we sell for a sizeable profit those are very good deals in my books. I guess we can say Auba and Leno were no brainers but look at the nightmare Chelsea has had with more money trying to buy a striker and goalkeeper.

At the time Auba wasn’t a totally loved deal because of how bad things had gotten between him and Dortmund.

As @Toby Andrl said, Lichtsteiner was clearly supposed to be a back up and a squad presence who only played when Bellerin did his ACL. The fact he only had a one year deal was pretty well negotiated tbf.

Torreira and Sokratis were iffy but without Covid I reckon we get decent fees for both.
 

MikelHadADream

Well-Known Member
Guendouzi and Mavrapanos are probably going to be hugely profitable deals tbf. Think total outlay for both was under 10M and each one is probably worth a bit in excess of that.

If we sell for a sizeable profit those are very good deals in my books. I guess we can say Auba and Leno were no brainers but look at the nightmare Chelsea has had with more money trying to buy a striker and goalkeeper.

At the time Auba wasn’t a totally loved deal because of how bad things had gotten between him and Dortmund.

As @Toby Andrl said, Lichtsteiner was clearly supposed to be a back up and a squad presence who only played when Bellerin did his ACL. The fact he only had a one year deal was pretty well negotiated tbf.

Torreira and Sokratis were iffy but without Covid I reckon we get decent fees for both.

I'm not so sure. Europe is skint, which is obviously out of Sven's/the clubs control, so I'll believe any permanent deal for Guendouzi when I see it, same goes for Mavropanos. So realistically what is the most we could get for either (baring in mind Guendouzi has a year), 10m? When you take into account what we have paid them in wages, I don't really see any decent profit there.

Agree re Covid, the club got quite unlucky that the pandemic happened when we needed to shift out these players. But frankly, the club doesn't really deserve any luck. They've been doing rubbish deals for years and it's caught up with them.
 

Toby Andrl

Part Time Stuttgart Fan
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Without trying to sound disparaging, Stuttgart/the Bundesliga is a good fit for him. There is far less competition/pressure in that league, and much more scope for clubs like Stuttgart to buy and blood in a load of youngsters. It looks great when it succeeds, but in reality I think it's very hard to do in the PL, and especially at a "top 6" club.

Have to disagree here. Relegation can be a big risk for usually established top flight clubs. Stuttgart was under pressure to get immediate promotion while having to do a complete squad rebuild in one window having had lost around 20 players after relegation. Building a team full of inexperienced talents of the modern profile (technical, fast, etc) with only few experienced veterans to get immediate promotion in a very physical, harsh league was a big gamble. Add to that the financial constraints due to relegation (less TV money) and the Covid pandemic. Hitzlsperger and Mislintat made a very risky gamble in building the squad the way they did. Just look at Hamburg to see what happens when you fail instant promotion: With every season down there you lose squad substance and quality, you lose money and it gets harder to keep the squad quality up and you get closer and closer to 2. Bundesliga average.

Having said that Mislintat did not only buy talents. He brought in the experienced Al-Ghaddioui as a 2. BL veteran, he kept Didavi and Castro around, bought the mid 20 aged solid 2. BL players Förster and Klement to add some structure and experience, Endo also is in that age group, after promotion he signed established Waldemar Anton as chief of the defence.
 

hydrofluoric acid

Many Men Wish Death Upon Me
Guendouzi and Mavrapanos are probably going to be hugely profitable deals tbf. Think total outlay for both was under 10M and each one is probably worth a bit in excess of that.

If we sell for a sizeable profit those are very good deals in my books. I guess we can say Auba and Leno were no brainers but look at the nightmare Chelsea has had with more money trying to buy a striker and goalkeeper.

At the time Auba wasn’t a totally loved deal because of how bad things had gotten between him and Dortmund.

As @Toby Andrl said, Lichtsteiner was clearly supposed to be a back up and a squad presence who only played when Bellerin did his ACL. The fact he only had a one year deal was pretty well negotiated tbf.

Torreira and Sokratis were iffy but without Covid I reckon we get decent fees for both.

Not sure about hugeable. Its 20 M max for both of them I think.
 

yousif_arsenal

King of Twitter Rumours
Moderator

Seem likely we won't even get fee for plsyers that had good loan. Look like it's going to be another summer where clubs are in worse positions than last summer
 

Idiotologue

Well-Known Member
There's been a lot of talk about players Mislintat looked at during his Arsenal time who are in a very, very different bracket than those he immediately brought in: Kai Havertz, Ismaila Sarr, Silas Wamangituka, he already looked at Pepe, Tierney apparently was on Arsenal's list way before he was signed. He obviously works on longterm projects but had only gotten one winter and one summer window in which the squad was in dire need of quick fixes like desperatly needing goals asap. Think down the line we would've seen a very different transfer strategy to the one we saw in those two windows and also now under Edu/Arteta.
You're missing one of the biggest ones: Çağlar Söyüncü. Mislintat was enamored with him. What a masterstroke that would have been.
 

Penn_

Established Member
You're missing one of the biggest ones: Çağlar Söyüncü. Mislintat was enamored with him. What a masterstroke that would have been.
Didn’t he have an awful first season?

No chance he’d have survived here. Fans are already on Gabriel’s back.
 
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