Laurent Koscielny

[albakos]

Classic Arsenal really. We needed those performances against United and Swansea, not a relegated Aston Villa on the last day of the season (Giroud cupping his ears to the fans that day is still one of the most unbelievable things I’ve seen from an Arsenal player).

This is an old thing, but you reminded me of the anger I had with Walcott that season, he was nigh on useless. An absolute coward
Remember that for some 60 minutes played at OT vs. United's U-19, Walcott had touched the ball only 9 times

Giroud for all his faults, still produced good return of League goals.

Sanchez: Played 30, scored 13;
Goals per game: 0.43 or a goal every 2.30 games

Giroud: Played 38, scored 16;
Goals per game: 0.42 or a goal every 2.37 games

Welbeck: Played 11, scored 4;
Goals per game: 0.36 or a goal every 2.75 games

Walcott: Played 28, scored 5;
Goals per game: 0.17 or a goal every 5.6 games

Campbell: Played 19, scored 3;
Goals per game: 0.15 or a goal every 6.33 games​

 

[BigPoppaPump]

This is an old thing, but you reminded me of the anger I had with Walcott that season, he was nigh on useless. An absolute coward
Remember that for some 60 minutes played at OT vs. United's U-19, Walcott had touched the ball only 9 times

Arsène's biggest flaw was putting way too much faith in players that weren't good enough and giving them loads of minutes. All those years of trying to make something out of Walcott just for him to end up at Everton and be practically forgotten. Could say the same for Ox, all those years of average to bad performances just for him to go to Liverpool.

 

[Trilly]

(Giroud cupping his ears to the fans that day is still one of the most unbelievable things I’ve seen from an Arsenal player).

Was this the moment the hatred began?

 

[blaze_of_glory]

https://arseblog.com/2018/05/lauren...but-appreciation-as-serious-injury-confirmed/

"So, frankly, any Arsenal fan wishing ill-will on him can go take a long walk off a short pier. Since he joined this club he has been a consistently excellent performer. Not flawless, he’s made mistakes – but in a team which has for so long struggled to defend the fact that he’s stood out and developed into one of the best central defenders in Europe is a testament to his quality and his character.

His partnership with Per Mertesacker was one of the best we’ve seen in recent years, they complemented each other very well as Koscielny’s pace and aggressive style dovetailed perfectly with the German’s positioning and reading of the game. If Koscielny failed to win it high up the pitch the way he often did, the BFG was there to mop up, and likewise the Frenchman’s pace was often vital to cover for his partner.

Aside from that, however, we also have to put Koscielny’s consistency into the context of his other partners at the heart of our defence. There’s a list of players who struggled to cope with what was asked of them defensively by Arsène Wenger. Sebastian Squillaci, as I’ve mentioned before, outlined exactly why he – despite being an experienced international player who joined us from European trophy winning Sevilla – couldn’t deal with it.

Mikael Silvestre. Johan Djourou. Thomas Vermaelen. Shkodran Mustafi. All players who had/have serious flaws in their game, or simply couldn’t perform to a consistent standard. Yet alongside them, Koscielny did his best to hold things together. He wasn’t always perfect, but you’d need to be superhuman to pull that off when your defensive partners are so flawed. It’s a credit to him that throughout his career at this club, he’s played as well as he has as often as he has.

We can’t also ignore the debilitating effect that this injury must have had on him, both physically and mentally. Some players can’t play unless they feel 100%, and there’s no way Koscielny has felt that for a long time. It’s draining and difficult to play with an underlying injury and I think this season we’ve seen signs that it’s robbed him of some of his pace and sharpness, the things which made him such a formidable defender.

Yet throughout he’s been committed, played through the pain, sacrificed his physical well-being to pull on the Arsenal shirt, and some people think it’s ok to pillory him in the wake of a horrendous injury? Get the fück out of here."

 

[carlito'sway]

https://arseblog.com/2018/05/lauren...but-appreciation-as-serious-injury-confirmed/

"So, frankly, any Arsenal fan wishing ill-will on him can go take a long walk off a short pier. Since he joined this club he has been a consistently excellent performer. Not flawless, he’s made mistakes – but in a team which has for so long struggled to defend the fact that he’s stood out and developed into one of the best central defenders in Europe is a testament to his quality and his character.

His partnership with Per Mertesacker was one of the best we’ve seen in recent years, they complemented each other very well as Koscielny’s pace and aggressive style dovetailed perfectly with the German’s positioning and reading of the game. If Koscielny failed to win it high up the pitch the way he often did, the BFG was there to mop up, and likewise the Frenchman’s pace was often vital to cover for his partner.

Aside from that, however, we also have to put Koscielny’s consistency into the context of his other partners at the heart of our defence. There’s a list of players who struggled to cope with what was asked of them defensively by Arséne Wenger. Sebastian Squillaci, as I’ve mentioned before, outlined exactly why he – despite being an experienced international player who joined us from European trophy winning Sevilla – couldn’t deal with it.

Mikael Silvestre. Johan Djourou. Thomas Vermaelen. Shkodran Mustafi. All players who had/have serious flaws in their game, or simply couldn’t perform to a consistent standard. Yet alongside them, Koscielny did his best to hold things together. He wasn’t always perfect, but you’d need to be superhuman to pull that off when your defensive partners are so flawed. It’s a credit to him that throughout his career at this club, he’s played as well as he has as often as he has.

We can’t also ignore the debilitating effect that this injury must have had on him, both physically and mentally. Some players can’t play unless they feel 100%, and there’s no way Koscielny has felt that for a long time. It’s draining and difficult to play with an underlying injury and I think this season we’ve seen signs that it’s robbed him of some of his pace and sharpness, the things which made him such a formidable defender.

Yet throughout he’s been committed, played through the pain, sacrificed his physical well-being to pull on the Arsenal shirt, and some people think it’s ok to pillory him in the wake of a horrendous injury? Get the fück out of here."

Glad you posted this. I read it as well and was about to the the same.
Totally share the points in bold above. Those, (the usual suspects) who have been piling up on the player should take a good look at themselves. Really, the callousness, lack of perspective and sense of entitlement of some fans will never cease to amaze me.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

https://arseblog.com/2018/05/lauren...but-appreciation-as-serious-injury-confirmed/

Mikael Silvestre. Johan Djourou. Thomas Vermaelen. Shkodran Mustafi. All players who had/have serious flaws in their game, or simply couldn’t perform to a consistent standard. Yet alongside them, Koscielny did his best to hold things together. He wasn’t always perfect, but you’d need to be superhuman to pull that off when your defensive partners are so flawed. It’s a credit to him that throughout his career at this club, he’s played as well as he has as often as he has.

Koscielny was just as bad as the players mentioned and didn't hold things together at all. It was Mertesacker who held things together, after he retired our defense fell apart. Don't forget he broke down and started crying when it was time to be a leader.

 

[say yes]

@blaze_of_glory @carlito'sway

Since I’ve clearly been one of Koscielny’s harsher critics recently I’ll nibble on that.

I’m not wishing any ill-will on Koscielny. Suffered a horrendous injury that I wouldn’t wish on anyone and hope he recovers well.

Having said that, why can’t we pillory (criticise) him for yet another horrendous mistake which cost the team massively? Koscielny shouldn’t be immune to well-deserved criticism just because he suffered an injury.

@Trilly has already commented on it but the favouritism in this place is absurd. Imagine if someone like Xhaka had made that mistake against Atletico? Poor guy was comfortably our best performer over two legs and he’s still getting slaughtered.

In fact just touching on that second leg: Wilshere was ineffectual, Ramsey overplayed everything and kept on losing the ball, Ospina went down in his box quicker than Delli Ali, Monreal was extremely poor and Bellerin was frankly awful. What do we get on AM?

Özil, Xhaka, Özil, Xhaka.

Sad.

 

[Brown Gooner]

We technically didn't lose to Leicester City. As I recall we were the only team to beat them home and away.

City and United couldn't beat them home or away. Sp**s lost at home ffs and Liverpool lost away.

If the other 5 top clubs had done their jobs, their dream would have stayed a dream.

Mental Gymnastics Overload! If Arsenal had done their job against the weaker teams (Swansea, West Ham and Southampton) and not lost to United away (who were playing with Kids that game) and had held onto that 3-2 lead against Liverpool then we would have won it that year.

——————​

Laurent was a very good CB for us but he never came across as a leader. Should’ve never been given the captain’s armband. This is where I believe handing out the captaincy based on seniority can be damaging to the team.

Captaincy should be based on qualities and not seniority. Age should not be the only factor in deciding who wears the captain’s armband.

 

[carlito'sway]

@blaze_of_glory @carlito'sway

Since I’ve clearly been one of Koscielny’s harsher critics recently I’ll nibble on that.

I’m not wishing any ill-will on Koscielny. Suffered a horrendous injury that I wouldn’t wish on anyone and hope he recovers well.

Having said that, why can’t we pillory (criticise) him for yet another horrendous mistake which cost the team massively? Koscielny shouldn’t be immune to well-deserved criticism just because he suffered an injury.

@Trilly has already commented on it but the favouritism in this place is absurd. Imagine if someone like Xhaka had made that mistake against Atletico? Poor guy was comfortably our best performer over two legs and he’s still getting slaughtered.

In fact just touching on that second leg: Wilshere was ineffectual, Ramsey overplayed everything and kept on losing the ball, Ospina went down in his box quicker than Delli Ali, Monreal was extremely poor and Bellerin was frankly awful. What do we get on AM?

Özil, Xhaka, Özil, Xhaka.

Sad.

Mate, this is a football board and anybody is entitled to criticize any players performance at any point. Yes, we all know and remember Kos costly mistakes, particularly the two mentioned over and over.
Having said that, the issue that I and others have, (as eloquently addressed by Andrew/Arseblog), is that that the constant barrage of criticism and denigration is so over the top that it is becoming simply repulsive and simply negates any valid point those "critics"may have made. It smacks of an enlarged sense of entitlement and a complete lack of perspective.
In the Koscielny case, the guy was a terrific servant of the club and for a long time, as mentioned in the blog, one of the best CD in Europe. Trying to do deny that, like some have done it here, particularly at a moment when the guy basically had a career ending injury at the service of the club, seems totally callous and frankly twisted.

 

[Makingtrax]

Mental Gymnastics Overload! If Arsenal had done their job against the weaker teams (Swansea, West Ham and Southampton) and not lost to United away (who were playing with Kids that game) and had held onto that 3-2 lead against Liverpool then we would have won it that year.

Not really bro. We're just discussing different things.

You're talking about inconsistency which has dogged us for years and all teams with a lower spending than the oligarch clubs and United.

I'm talking about how Leicester pipped all the top 6 teams.

 

[Makingtrax]

https://arseblog.com/2018/05/lauren...but-appreciation-as-serious-injury-confirmed/

"So, frankly, any Arsenal fan wishing ill-will on him can go take a long walk off a short pier. Since he joined this club he has been a consistently excellent performer. Not flawless, he’s made mistakes – but in a team which has for so long struggled to defend the fact that he’s stood out and developed into one of the best central defenders in Europe is a testament to his quality and his character.

His partnership with Per Mertesacker was one of the best we’ve seen in recent years, they complemented each other very well as Koscielny’s pace and aggressive style dovetailed perfectly with the German’s positioning and reading of the game. If Koscielny failed to win it high up the pitch the way he often did, the BFG was there to mop up, and likewise the Frenchman’s pace was often vital to cover for his partner.

Aside from that, however, we also have to put Koscielny’s consistency into the context of his other partners at the heart of our defence. There’s a list of players who struggled to cope with what was asked of them defensively by Arséne Wenger. Sebastian Squillaci, as I’ve mentioned before, outlined exactly why he – despite being an experienced international player who joined us from European trophy winning Sevilla – couldn’t deal with it.

Mikael Silvestre. Johan Djourou. Thomas Vermaelen. Shkodran Mustafi. All players who had/have serious flaws in their game, or simply couldn’t perform to a consistent standard. Yet alongside them, Koscielny did his best to hold things together. He wasn’t always perfect, but you’d need to be superhuman to pull that off when your defensive partners are so flawed. It’s a credit to him that throughout his career at this club, he’s played as well as he has as often as he has.

We can’t also ignore the debilitating effect that this injury must have had on him, both physically and mentally. Some players can’t play unless they feel 100%, and there’s no way Koscielny has felt that for a long time. It’s draining and difficult to play with an underlying injury and I think this season we’ve seen signs that it’s robbed him of some of his pace and sharpness, the things which made him such a formidable defender.

Yet throughout he’s been committed, played through the pain, sacrificed his physical well-being to pull on the Arsenal shirt, and some people think it’s ok to pillory him in the wake of a horrendous injury? Get the fück out of here."

15/16 Per and Kos gave us the best defence in the league by the usual statistical measures, i.e. Goals against, Clean sheets and Squawka stats.

Lot of posters had a very hard time believing that. They just had images of Per being too slow and got bombarded with memes about Wenger being a useless defensive coach.

 

[shootxhakashoot]

The guy is committed and been a great servant. Not my choice for style of centre back/ leader and saying he's been one of the best cbs in europe is taking it a bit far for me but hes given everything he could and not been helped (like most of our CBs) by overexposure due to no midfield cover and full backs bombing forward, thats not something that is his fault.
Yes hes made some mistakes in an Arsenal shirt but sense this could well be the end or beginning of the end of his time here so some perspective needed. Hes been better than the Stepanovs, Senderos, Gabriels, Squilacis and Silvestres of this world by an absolute country mile and for that Im thankful.

 

[say yes]

Having said that, the issue that I and others have, (as eloquently addressed by Andrew/Arseblog), is that that the constant barrage of criticism and denigration is so over the top that it is becoming simply repulsive and simply negates any valid point those "critics"may have made. It smacks of an enlarged sense of entitlement and a complete lack of perspective.

What constant barrage?

This thread is usually dead quiet on this forum, no matter how poorly Koscielny performs. Guy has been awful for two seasons now and his thread, which is 3 years old, has only just hit 70 pages. He’s as immune to criticism as it gets.

Compare that to the Xhaka or Özil threads if you want to talk about ridiculous criticism.

 

[carlito'sway]

What constant barrage?

This thread is usually dead quiet on this forum, no matter how poorly Koscielny performs. Guy has been awful for two seasons now and his thread, which is 3 years old, has only just hit 70 pages. He’s as immune to criticism as it gets.

Compare that to the Xhaka or Özil threads if you want to talk about ridiculous criticism.

He has been "awful for two seasons"......Hard to take you seriously.
Dude, you sound like a Trump supporter, with your constant whataboutism......

 

[say yes]

He has been "awful for two seasons"......Hard to take you seriously.
Dude, you sound like a Trump supporter, with your constant whataboutism......

He has though. And I’ve been calling him out on it for two seasons so feel free to check that. Don’t give a **** about how good he was previously, one of the reasons we’re in our current mess is that we’ve stuck with people who are clearly past it (Hello Arsène) for far too long.

We can cut all the comparisons out if you want. I’ll be completely up front about it: Koscielny was a great player for us but he hasn’t been criticised enough for his consistently rubbish performances this season. Nor was he criticised enough for them last season. He’s one of the reasons we’re where we are today and he’s the main reason we crashed out against Atletico.

 

[carlito'sway]

He has though. And I’ve been calling him out on it for two seasons so feel free to check that. Don’t give a **** about how good he was previously, one of the reasons we’re in our current mess is that we’ve stuck with people who are clearly past it (Hello Arséne) for far too long.

We can cut all the comparisons out if you want. I’ll be completely up front about it: Koscielny was a great player for us but he hasn’t been criticised enough for his consistently rubbish performances this season. Nor was he criticised enough for them last season. He’s one of the reasons we’re where we are today and he’s the main reason we crashed out against Atletico.

No he was not and you are just making things up at this point. He had an average to poor 17/18 season but saying he has been constantly rubbish is complete nonsense again. Anyway, hard to have a rational exchange on this. It is becoming pointless and ridiculous.

 

[scytheavatar]

Along Mertesacker's calm game he's Arsenal's best CB of the last decade - but unfortunately that doesn't make him the best in the league at any point.

You don't need to be a Ramos, Hummels, Boateng, Thiago Silva, Terry, et al level defender to be the best in the league....... defending in the premier league has been garbage in recent years. Since Terry's career winded down Kos has been the best defender in the league until this season, you are insane if you think Cahill is half as good as Kos. Try naming center backs that were better than Kos last season.

 

[Toby]

You don't need to be a Ramos, Hummels, Boateng, Thiago Silva, Terry, et al level defender to be the best in the league....... defending in the premier league has been garbage in recent years. Since Terry's career winded down Kos has been the best defender in the league until this season, you are insane if you think Cahill is half as good as Kos. Try naming center backs that were better than Kos last season.

This is really biased.

You seriously want to sell me a CB - the defensive leader and captain in Kos' case - in a defence of a club that ended up 5th, lost 9 games and conceded 44 in 2016/17, as the PL's best defender that season?

I know there's context to be included, like tactical setup of the whole team, etc. But as the captain and leader of the backline, Koscielny is somewhat responsible for this. And Arsenal have conceded over 40 goals last and this season.
Individually, he has been great for most of his time here, but his panic under high pressure and his lack of awareness, have, for all his service and other qualities, contributed to that defensive frailty. In the end, it's also part Wenger's blame, who has been unable to built another stable CB partnership after Merte's decline.
The Kos/Merte parntership was clearly the best in years, and that was a solid foundation that could've challenged for the league with more firepower up front. But Kos on his own is/has always been suspect in some aspects in his game, still not wanting to take away from his overall service or quality here. But he's just not, and never was, for me personally, THE best PL centreback or among the game's absolute top in comparison to some of his contemporaries in other european top leagues.

As for naming better CBs in the PL: Azpilicueta, van Dijk, Alderweireld, Kompany in his heyday, but he's been on an even steeper decline than Kos for a few seasons now. Dont want to get into retired players now.

Look, the guy's neither absolute ****e nor a CB legend to me. There's a few shades in between these extremes. I seriously don't get all the uproar from the Kos fans. No one is saying he's been ****e all his stay or something, it's more like looking at it from another, retrospective angle, and deciding he's probably more of a 8/10 than a 10/10. I don't get what's so appaling about that to some.

 

[BBF]

It surely isn't. He wasn't a bad CB, in fact, he was a very good one and he mostly did his job. But he never was the league's best CB or in the contemporary pantheon of best CBs around. He's always been a step lower than that. He definitely never was on the level of Ramos, Hummels, Boateng, Thiago Silva, Terry, et al.

He definitely was, but the difference being that most of those were consistent.

Always thought Thiago Silva was horrifically overrated as well, majority of the time he actually gets tested he gets a hiding.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

15/16 Per and Kos gave us the best defence in the league by the usual statistical measures, i.e. Goals against, Clean sheets and Squawka stats.

Lot of posters had a very hard time believing that. They just had images of Per being too slow and got bombarded with memes about Wenger being a useless defensive coach.

From what I can see United and Sp**s conceded less and we conceded the same amount as Leicester. All around the same though 35/36. If we had a world class striker that season instead of an exhausted Giroud who knows what would have happened. Özil got 19 assists.