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Laurent Koscielny

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Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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Still blaming Wenger for the current state of our club is crazy.
This is just wrong and you know it. Wenger is responsible for the state of our club, just like any manager with such a tenure at their club would be.

It will take many years before Wenger’s influence at this club disappears. This would also be the case if we were in a good position.

Wenger has a role in our current demise, just like Ivan, Kroenke and co.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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Wouldn't you be bitter if you were in his shoes? I'm sure Benzema, Rabiot and everyone else who missed out are also bitter. I can guarantee you a part of Gerrard and Carragher will be slightly bitter when Liverpool win the premier league because they couldn't do it in their playing days. It's human nature, these guys aren't robots.
But why are you defending a guy who was bitter enough to actually come out to the media and share such opinions?

Come off it. None of us know what Koscielny is like, absolutely none of us. We have to take things at face value because that’s all we have for now.

Yes there may be more going on but I’m not going to ignore all the facts I’ve been presented with just based on an opinion.

Also I hope you’re one day successful enough to own a large business then you can tell me how you’d react if somebody came up to you telling you that “you’re only losing out on a few million quid” :lol:
 

YeahBee

Terrible hot takes
The stunt was referring to his refusal to go on tour.

If you have seen my comments on the transfer forum, you would have noticed I regularly criticise the club for the way it is run. It is frankly shambolic. I'm more talking about the way he behaved after he didn't get his way. Especially for a captain. He is acting like a spoilt child.

So it saves us money to get his wages of the books...yet you want him replaced with a vocal, ball playing CB..who will also be earning wages. How much will he cost in transfer fee? It isn't like we need a LB, another CB, CM and a Winger. It is precisely because we need to fill all of those positions it suits us better to keep Kos, rather than spend a lot more money just to replace him, which we don't have.

"Kos a loyal warrior". You must be joking. So it is loyal to stay when he was getting paid a fortune to ply his trade here. He probably never got a tempting offer to leave before, yet only using the fact he stayed here for 9 years we start calling him loyal.

Loyal would have been if his contract had finished, but he wanted to help the club and stay for a year instead of taking a singing on fee elsewhere. Going beyond the basic requirements. No one obviously would expect that from him, that wouldn't be fair, something like that could be declared real loyalty. Do people even know what loyalty means. He stayed because it was beneficial to him.

Disloyal would be still having a contract, but wanting to go because better opportunities have suddenly appeared on the horizon. What Kos is doing is the definition of being disloyal. So are almost all footballers, it's a job for them. Nothing wrong with that, just don't try to make it out like they are loyal.

Oh and it's my opinion. Don't give a **** if you think it is a kneejerk reaction.

Has he EVER done anything similar?
Skipped a practises, said something wrong in a presser etc? The answer is NO!

Has the management been clowns before? A resounding YES!

Ergo it is probably the clowns being assholes...

Of course he is a loyal warrior, he has played thruout when he should have rested, f-ing up his body in the process
, he put the club before himself, especially with his playing style.
He was courted in the past but chose to Re-sign with us atleast twice

To show what kind of man he is he showed up to practises Alone, just not travel with the team as he is probably pissed at the club and doesnt want to disrupt the team with his attitude on the trip.


Yeah we need a new cb, it is not a zero sum game, we need to invest, getting Kos wages of the books offsets the investment some, even if we managed to get a fee from him tgat would not cover a new cb
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
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Player:Saliba
Wenger has a role in our current demise, just like Ivan, Kroenke and co.
What demise are you talking about? Emery is about where he should be for his first season, a lot better than Klopp was in his first season, who finished 8th.

This is the fifth most expensive squad in the league and it came 5th, so the squad isn’t far off where Emery might expect it to be. It was never going to challenge City and Liverpool.

So what is Wenger affecting as you claim? The management team is different, the tactics and team selections are different. Guendouzi, Leno, Torreira, Sokratis never even knew him and Auba, Laca, Mkhi, and Kola only knew him for a matter of months and have played under other managers for far longer.

Is Wenger affecting the skill and attitude of the remaining few players? Or is his aura around the club affecting everybody’s physche. If either of those two are true, it’s not Wenger’s fault that those *****’s are letting a little thing like that affect their professionalism.

And that includes Kos.
 

Jae

Well-Known Member
So Ferguson is responsible for where United are failing?

Yeah, completely Fergie's fault IMHO.

They'd still probably be winning titles with him at the helm :lol: Selfish b*stard for retiring and putting his health first!

I can see the point he's trying to make though. Fergie left Moyes a title wining team. Wenger left Emery the worst Arsenal team I've ever seen.
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
Wenger left Emery the worst Arsenal team I've ever seen.
The problem is, how much of that is actually Wenger's fault rather than Kroenke or Ivan's?
Factor in the fact that Arsène's biggest weakness was always his eternal optimism. Between feeling some players were honestly good enough and the lack of support from up top it's easy to see how we have slipped into this conundrum.
 

Jae

Well-Known Member
The problem is, how much of that is actually Wenger's fault rather than Kroenke or Ivan's?

We'll never know mate.

Depends on what each individual poster's agenda is I suppose. The anti-Wenger brigade will obviously blame him, the pro-Wenger people will blame Kroenke/Ivan.

I personally think it's 50/50.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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What demise are you talking about? Emery is about where he should be for his first season, a lot better than Klopp was in his first season, who finished 8th.

This is the fifth most expensive squad in the league and it came 5th, so the squad isn’t far off where Emery might expect it to be. It was never going to challenge City and Liverpool.

So what is Wenger affecting as you claim? The management team is different, the tactics and team selections are different. Guendouzi, Leno, Torreira, Sokratis never even knew him and Auba, Laca, Mkhi, and Kola only knew him for a matter of months and have played under other managers for far longer.

Is Wenger affecting the skill and attitude of the remaining few players? Or is his aura around the club affecting everybody’s physche. If either of those two are true, it’s not Wenger’s fault that those *****’s are letting a little thing like that affect their professionalism.

And that includes Kos.
I just saw you saying that our previous manager isn’t responsible for where we are as a club and I disagreed with that for obvious reasons.

Seems like you’re arguing something different and I don’t think I disagree but I need my coffee first. :lol:
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
We'll never know mate.

Depends on what each individual poster's agenda is I suppose. The anti-Wenger brigade will obviously blame him, the pro-Wenger people will blame Kroenke/Ivan.

I personally think it's 50/50.
Exactly. That is where I am. There was just a horrible combination of over optimism and lack of a will to spend. But I don;t for a minute think that a man in the constant spotlight would knowingly jeopardise the club
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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So Ferguson is responsible for where United are failing?
Ask any United fan with footballing knowledge and they’ll tell you that Fergie towards the end didn’t ‘future proof’ that side. He just used his elite ability to drag them to that last title. There was no transition plan or long term thinking.

He’s been gone for what 5 seasons now? And they’re still somewhat struggling, of course there’s now a strong case to be made that management have had more than enough time to correct his mistakes so they’re definitely not perfect.

But that was the same management who were there when Fergie was winning titles wasn’t it? So which has a bigger effect on the side? The manager or senior management of the club?
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
But that was the same management who were there when Fergie was winning titles wasn’t it? So which has a bigger effect on the side? The manager or senior management of the club?
So the management of United (or Arsenal for that matter) have absolutely no responsibility to correctly plan for what was (in both cases) an inevitable transition waiting to happen? WTF do they do then?
By the sounds of things, both sets of club management were under the impression that Fergie and Arsène would live forever.
WHAT THE FECK!
There was no transition plan or long term thinking.
Surely this is the responsibility of the club management and not the club's team manager? Why have this massive hierachy of people and then only one dude has the task. I don't buy it. Wenger's job, particularly in his final years, was to get the team to do well.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
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Player:Saliba
We'll never know mate.

Depends on what each individual poster's agenda is I suppose. The anti-Wenger brigade will obviously blame him, the pro-Wenger people will blame Kroenke/Ivan.

I personally think it's 50/50.
What’s a pro Wenger agenda? Wenger did amazing for this club by any statistical analysis ever done . . . for his spend. Anybody wants to say he didn’t do as well as Fergie, who spent a lot more, that’s fair enough.

Emery’s done pretty well this year, all in all, too. Hopefully will improve next year if he can sort out a few squad tweaks with Mustafi and Kola etc.

The only people who are throwing blame around at our managers all the time are those that don’t understand football . . . the relationship between wealth and the odds of winning, cycles of success and failure for all clubs, the role of chance and the vagaries of the transfer market. ;)
 

Mo Britain

Doom Monger
We'll never know mate.

Depends on what each individual poster's agenda is I suppose. The anti-Wenger brigade will obviously blame him, the pro-Wenger people will blame Kroenke/Ivan.

I personally think it's 50/50.
Come back in five years time when Arsenal haven't won a sausage and are not even qualifying for the Europa League.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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So the management of United (or Arsenal for that matter) have absolutely no responsibility to correctly plan for what was (in both cases) an inevitable transition waiting to happen? WTF do they do then?
By the sounds of things, both sets of club management were under the impression that Fergie and Arsène would live forever.
WHAT THE FECK!
Surely this is the responsibility of the club management and not the club's team manager? Why have this massive hierachy of people and then only one dude has the task. I don't buy it. Wenger's job, particularly in his final years, was to get the team to do well.
Why do you think managers like Pep have gotten credit for getting rid of legends like Ronaldinho and co to bed in guys like Pedro, Busquets etc.

A small part of the managers job is to make decisions that keep their team competitive in the medium term. Wenger doing things like signing nobody in summer 15 is the kind of decision that set us back a year or two. Fergie squeezing every last ounce out of that squad rather than establishing some new players in his last few years is another example.

You’re right that senior management play a part but they can’t force managers to promote youth players, or make signings (in most cases).
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
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Why do you think managers like Pep have gotten credit for getting rid of legends like Ronaldinho and co to bed in guys like Pedro, Busquets etc.

A small part of the managers job is to make decisions that keep their team competitive in the medium term. Wenger doing things like signing nobody in summer 15 is the kind of decision that set us back a year or two. Fergie squeezing every last ounce out of that squad rather than establishing some new players in his last few years is another example.

You’re right that senior management play a part but they can’t force managers to promote youth players, or make signings (in most cases).
Mate you need your coffee.

Fergie spent £68m in his last season and stole our top goal scorer, who ended up wining the golden boot. That’s what won the league.

And this story that Kroenke was throwing money at Wenger but he was refusing to spend it, is ludicrous.

If you’re going to select managerial decisions to praise one manager and make another look stupid, at least use facts.
 
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Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
A small part of the managers job is to make decisions that keep their team competitive in the medium term.
Yet 5 years on and you're claiming Fergie is to blame.. If there are people in higher positions who get paid to plan ahead then who is really to blame for allowing Fergie to do that in his final year. They could easily have stepped in and said "hang on, you're not using our resources for one final glory moment of your own, we need a plan for when you're gone"
I fully agree our squad was left a mess after Wenger. What I don't agree with is the notion that it is solely because of Wenger that the squad is a mess.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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Country: England
Mate you need your coffee.

Fergie spent £68m in his last season and stole our top goal scorer, who ended up wining the golden boot. That’s what won the league.

And this story that Kroenke was throwing money at Wenger but he was refusing to spend it, is ludicrous.

If you’re going to select managerial decisions to praise one manager and make another look stupid, at least use facts.
What?

You're so eager to defend Wenger that you're not reading what I said. I didn't praise Fergie. Comprehension lad.:lol:
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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Yet 5 years on and you're claiming Fergie is to blame.. If there are people in higher positions who get paid to plan ahead then who is really to blame for allowing Fergie to do that in his final year. They could easily have stepped in and said "hang on, you're not using our resources for one final glory moment of your own, we need a plan for when you're gone"
I fully agree our squad was left a mess after Wenger. What I don't agree with is the notion that it is solely because of Wenger that the squad is a mess.
I haven't said either of the bolded. You and Trax are having a mare.

Sometimes I feel like people try really hard to disagree with me...
 

Manberg

Predator
Wenger allowed the team to fall out of top 4, be overtaken by Liverpool and worst of all, Sp**s. I think the players know that we are declining and getting worse rather than improving.
 
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