Let's all laugh at Man Utd: Istanbald

[clockwork orange]

Add to that heading ability. JVP is really poor at headers (took him far too long to get to the half decent level he's at now), whereas Zlatan and Ronaldo are really good at it.

What's most interesting at is that the grey one has shown in recent matches that he is frustrated and easily irritated. Shouldn't be that difficult to trigger a red card. Just need to annoy him a little. Preferably more.

 

[CurryFlavoured]

Ibra isn't on another level to JVP, if we are looking at career achievements fine but since 2010 (when VPs injuries seemed to fade away) he's been absolutely top class, no doubt about it. If he wasn't so injury prone he more than likely would have been doing it for years before that, if you want to count that as 1-0 to Zlatan because his physique allows him to stay so fit then fair enough but I wouldn't do so.

And fair enough to say his physical ability is better than Judas', there's no debating that one either, but I'd say RVP's technically a better footballer.

 

[jones]

Ibra isn't on another level to JVP, if we are looking at career achievements fine but since 2010 (when VPs injuries seemed to fade away) he's been absolutely top class, no doubt about it. If he wasn't so injury prone he more than likely would have been doing it for years before that, if you want to count that as 1-0 to Zlatan because his physique allows him to stay so fit then fair enough but I wouldn't do so.

And fair enough to say his physical ability is better than Judas', there's no debating that one either, but I'd say RVP's technically a better footballer.

That is basically what I just said, yes.

RVP was never on Ibrahimovic's level, during his patches of fitness he was nowhere near the Swede. Even in the last two or three years when RVP hit his peak he was outperformed by Ibrahimovic, and while the former already seems to be declining, I can easily see the latter keeping his level for another two or three years. Technique-wise there isn't much between them, Zlatan is a better creator of chances though.

 

[CurryFlavoured]

When RVP hit 30 premier league goals for a side struggling to make top 4 he wasn't on Ibrahimovic's level? Come on now jones. Nobody here likes JVP but your bias is going a little far here.

And since when has Robin shown signs of decline? Just because Utd have had a bit of a **** start under Moyes doesn't mean he is in decline, he looks a bit sulky but that's all. And if RVP's fitness holds up I don't see why he shouldn't play for 2-3 more years, his game has always been based around technique. He doesn't have much of a physical game so losing his pace shouldn't be much of a problem seeing he never really had any.

 

[jones]

He went something like ten matches without scoring a single goal last season, I'd call that a decline.

When RVP got 30 league goals for us he was undoubtedly our main man, our whole game plan was to get the ball to RVP, probably 10-15 of those goals were tap-ins. I'm not denying that he was class for us at that time, but I said back then already that I rate Ibrahimovic higher.

 

[Camel]

Both Ibra and RVP are not going to win CL lulz.

 

[CurryFlavoured]

He came back from that bad patch with a strong end to the season to be fair to him, I'm pretty sure I remember him hitting a hat trick near the end of last season.

That season RVP for me was the best striker in the world (I wouldn't include Messi or Ronaldo as strikers like some seem to), the amount of games he dragged us through was ridiculous. He scored tap ins but so does every striker, and those tap ins wouldn't have happened if his movement in the box wasn't world class.

On Ibra, personally I've always thought his achievements were overrated but that's for another day. I'd love to see him have a go at the Premier League, no doubt he'd be a success but I have doubts whether he could automatically come in and show up guys like RVP.

 

[Bigbludfire]

I think he could quite easily. For someone to be 6'5 and have better technique than most world class forwards is outrageous. He's extremely good at scoring goals and extremely good at passing, there's not much to suggest he couldn't come and dominate the league.

 

[Camel]

He came back from that bad patch with a strong end to the season to be fair to him, I'm pretty sure I remember him hitting a hat trick near the end of last season.

All three goals were offside.

 

[CurryFlavoured]

I think he could quite easily. For someone to be 6'5 and have better technique than most world class forwards is outrageous. He's extremely good at scoring goals and extremely good at passing, there's not much to suggest he couldn't come and dominate the league.

But could he show up RVP? Like I said, I have no doubt he'd do well but jones said Ibra is a level above RVP. If that's so I'd be expecting outrageous things from him in England.

 

[CurryFlavoured]

I'm coming across as a Judas lover here. Just to confirm - I think he's a scumbag.

 

[jones]

It doesn't work like that though, why would he need to come to England to prove that? You could easily prove it the other way around and send RVP to Italy and see how he'd fare there.

That 'level above' stuff is just semantics, my point is I think Ibra is definitely better than RVP, because everything RVP does he does better.

 

[Bigbludfire]

I think he could quite easily. For someone to be 6'5 and have better technique than most world class forwards is outrageous. He's extremely good at scoring goals and extremely good at passing, there's not much to suggest he couldn't come and dominate the league.

But could he show up RVP? Like I said, I have no doubt he'd do well but jones said Ibra is a level above RVP. If that's so I'd be expecting outrageous things from him in England.

Level above is stretching it, but he's definitely better than Judas. Ibrahimovic's proved it basically everywhere, Judas has done the PL so I don't think he'd have a single problem switching

 

[CurryFlavoured]

Look we could go at this all day, I'm not going to try change the way you see this.

I don't think Ibra is definitely better than RVP, and I think RVP is doing his stuff in a tougher league. You see it another way. We'll leave it at that.

 

[jones]

It was you who started the debate in the first place

 

[kenkbc2]

I'm coming across as a Judas lover here. Just to confirm - I think he's a scumbag.

I will gladly second that.

Isn't it just our ****ty luck that when he was with us he was out injured three quarters of the time, yet when he's now with United, he seems to be always available.

 

[CurryFlavoured]

It was you who started the debate in the first place

You got me. I'm on my phone now and a bit busy, to be continued Jones.....

 

[Buhry]

Judas is declining. Don't think he'll hit 25+ in the league this season. Has not looked great under Moyes so far.

I just hope he gets one of those niggling longer term injuries he used to have with us again, at the age he's at now I don't think he'd be able to come back to the same level again.

In all honesty though I don't givea shiet about van persie at this point, he can have his fun with cleverley, giggs, fellaini and anderson. But I still think manure doing **** and him getting injured would be funny. Would be better if we beat them while he stayed fit though.

 

[Bigbludfire]

I don't think he's declining, but like you said Buhry, he's suffering from complete **** around him. He'd me a monster for a team like Juventus but the prick wouldn't listen, even if it was a 7m offer

 

[CurryFlavoured]

First of all, I agree that there aren't really any signs of RVP declining. 2 seasons in a row now he's been top scorer and he's started this season with 3. Like bidbludfire said he might suffer from having a lack of creative players, and a lesser manager to what he had the previous 2 seasons, but there hasn't really been any good evidence of him declining yet.

On Ibra, I've always thought he was a little bit overrated. The biggest club and league he has played in so far in his career he failed. Say what you want about Barca not suiting him, but for a guy with the outstanding technical ability that people have described on this site he should have been able to adapt to Barca's system - he didn't and left with one half decent season under his belt.

Also, I think some of the titles he won have been overhyped. At Barca he didn't play the key part his name and transfer fee would have expected. Some of the Serie A titles he won in a pretty poor league compared to what the Serie has been in recent times. The first 2 he won at Juventus were competitive divisions but he didn't score many goals in either of those seasons. His later titles at Inter and Milan especially weren't particularly good leagues compared to La Liga and the EPL at that time.

Finally, I don't think Ibra has played as well (and I definitely don't think he has played a level above) as what RVP has produced the last 2 seasons. He single handedly got us top 4 and won Utd the title in those 2 seasons. IMO he has been the best striker in club football the last 2 seasons, whether there have been strikers who have outperformed him in that time period is debatable but there definitely hasn't been anyone considerably better than him in that time.