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Lets face it-Arsenal's not great yet

jeromelee

Well-Known Member
I really think Arsenal lacks depth in it's rotation squad. And mostly concentrated on the right side. RM is mostly for freddy but he hasn't really been playing well there. AW has tried gilberto there as well but you could see that he's not really comfortable. Especially when pushing up. He's good at tackling balls and adding a defensive dimension to Arsenal but he's not really good pushing up from the flanks. He can play the quick 1-2's from the midfield diamond but as a crosser he's not that good. And he can't really score as well (unless from the middle) and you know that the RM's and LM's have to be able to score to add more options in attack. So naturally freddy is the right choice as he is more attacking oriented. But he hasn't been playing well so you can tell that Arsenal seemed to only attack from the left nowadays. Unless henry decides to switch to the right which he does every now and then.

As for bringing in v.bronckhorst I dun think it will suit arsenals play as he is also an option for the LM or LB position which we seem to have more cover (even freddy can play left). With Cole, clichy and pires.

But pennant does however add an attacking option from the right despite all his misgivings and indicipline. If only he would change his attitude, I'm sure he will have a place in the Arsenal squad. Maybe not first team but definitely as a rotation player.

Parlour, Kanu and Wiltord can all play on the right as well, but the problem is that parlour is old, kanu isn't a fraction of what a player he could've been and wiltord wants to leave (or should leave anyway).

Frankly I think that if Arsenal wants to move forward in the future it really needs to build some depth again. In defense, I think that cole/clichy, sol, toure/senderos is solid but someone should be brought in to replace lauren. His speed really is lacking when compared to some class strikers/wingers. But perhaps he has still much to improve then maybe to bring in another cover for the RB. Or the option is to bring in a top class CB like nesta/ cannavaro in cb and push toure to the RB position. Then at least you have a fullback that can push up fast. RM really does need a new player in there. I can't see any existing rotationally squad fill that gap if freddy is to get injured or is off-form. Like I said, pennant is an option, but he ain't exactly pires.

Forwards although we have quite a number of players like henry, reyes, kanu, bergy, jeffers, ali, bentley lets look at the list. Henry is great and reyes is just starting to mold into the team. But bergy is old and on the way out. Kanu has lost his touch and could be sold this season. jeffers was a real flop IMO. That only leaves ali and bentley which IMO hasn't enough experience. I think we really need another experienced striker for example trezeguet or ronaldo (although for sure they will not come) but maybe even morientes which is really good as well. I really don't think that ali and bentley can step up in a big game against the likes of real madrid or ac milan and pull of a miracle. So that means that within 2 seasons we could just be left with henry, reyes,ali and bentley.

And for goalkeepers. Sorry to say this, but I realyl believe that lehmann really isn't a player of enough calibre to help arsenal achieve what it wants to, to be the greatest team in the world. he's like a loose cannon like when he shoved ronaldo against MU. Crazy. Some might say he's kept many clean sheets but I believe it was mainly due to 2 great CB's in sol and toure. I've seen lehmann make way too many mistakes and let in too many goals compared to great saves he's made. We really need someone like schemichael or casillas or buffon or toldo. A real world class keeper. Even ambrosio, robinson and carroll seems more steady between the post. Stack and taylor just don't appear experienced enough either.

Please don't flame me cause I do love arsenal but we really do lack depth in our reserves/rotation squad. The players I see that are really great for arsenal and will continue to help arsenal are:-

stack, cole, sol, toure, lauren, pires, edu, vieira, freddy, henry, reyes, clichy, senderos, cesc, ali, bentley and maybe some of the youngsters which honestly I haven't had the opportunity to watch them play.

Players like taylor, jeffers, bronckorst, lehmann, silva, bergy, kanu, pennant, wiltord, parlour I believe should be slowly phased out of arsenal as they are either old, or play in a way which does not suit arsenal. With the exception of bergy which probably have 1 good season left, pennant who still has loads of potential and silva which hopefully will improve.

That will leave us with the task of trying to strengthen the team by adding:
1 or 2 keepers within the next 2-3 seasons.
1 CB or RB within 2 seasons (someone like terry for CB and push kolo to RB or someone like glen johnson straight to RB).
1 RM within 1 season.
perhaps 1 CM of strong calibre such as Davids, lampard or gerrard or just a rotational mid like duff, robben or joe cole within 2-3 seasons.
1 forward within the next season such as kaka or shevchenko.

Lets face it gooners, we lack depth. Compared to the big teams, we really have serious problems in rotaional squad. This is more than evident the minute we lose 2-3 first team players. But I also know that Arsenal are tied up with financial issues. So lets just hope that the board of gooners will think up something.

Oh yah, and AW is still the best despite making some doodoo in substitutions lately. Everyone makes mistakes, just take a look at fergy, or ranieri with his crazy substitutions, or houllier. I'm sure he has his reasons for doing what he did.
 

quattro

Well-Known Member
define "great"?

do you mean ac milan-like with class players in all positions? or real madrid-like with big names galacticos all over the offense? or chelsea... with their money they can possibly buy everyone in that wish list with change to spare. what? what is "great"?

im sorry, but most of what you've written is nothing new. we need this, we need that, wish buffon was our keeper instead of lehmann... bloody hell we've heard all of this before.

Lets face it gooners, we lack depth. Compared to the big teams, we really have serious problems in rotaional squad. This is more than evident the minute we lose 2-3 first team players. But I also know that Arsenal are tied up with financial issues.

so whats the point of moaning about it if you are aware of our financial issues already? to follow that up:

That will leave us with the task of trying to strengthen the team by adding:
1 or 2 keepers within the next 2-3 seasons.
1 CB or RB within 2 seasons (someone like terry for CB and push kolo to RB or someone like glen johnson straight to RB).
1 RM within 1 season.
perhaps 1 CM of strong calibre such as Davids, lampard or gerrard or just a rotational mid like duff, robben or joe cole within 2-3 seasons.
1 forward within the next season such as kaka or shevchenko.

my friend... you are asking for the MOON! cm the calibre of davids? a forward with the skills of shevchenko or kaka? sorry i dont want to sound sarcastic but DUHHHHH... doesn't EVERY TEAM in the whole world want people like that in their teams?

im just sick of all this daydreaming. we are having a tremendous season. we have the chance to get farther in europe than we have ever been. we have the chance to win the league in record breaking fashion. WHAT ELSE CAN YOU POSSIBLY WANT?! that kind of mentality is CHELSEA mentality! we want this, want that. not satisfied with having henry we just HAVE to have someone at the CALIBRE of shevchenko or KAKA (kaka! for gods sakes! he only just burst into the big scene this year!)...

i for one, despite losing to the red **** am damn happy for what the team has been achieving this year. i think that next year we will have a better season with some of our youth coming out... fer christ's sake WE ARE UNBEATEN IN THE LEAGUE, and at the DOORSTEP TO BETTER EUROPEAN GROUND. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?! a 30 point lead against chelsea and a squad that will destroy milan 30-0! please... you are whining about nothing!

oh... and arsenal ARE a great team. any gooner knows that.
 

Gooner83

Well-Known Member
The thing is we don't have that kind of money to spend on players.. and probably wont for quite a few years.

What Wenger has acheived with the current side is remarkable and hopefullly he will go hunting for more Toure's, Ljungberg's, Vieira's.

You will not see Wenger buying in established players like Nesta, Davids, Trez.

I guess we have to accept that and get on with the great job Wenger has been doing.

I don't think any team in the world is perfect.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
to really seriously be challenging for all honours throughout the entire season we need greater depth. no doubt our starting 11 can match any in the world, and that is why we are doing so well. but for the last 2 years we have been going great, then suddenly start looking tired and start losing. this is because of our small squad and lack of quality cover in many positions.
left mid and left back are well covered by clichy. maybe bring back Van bronkhorst and give him a chance just as another reliable player to cover that side.
centre mid we have vieira,edu,gilberto. with cesc coming through (maybe be ready in 2 seasons) i dont think that we have struggled in this area. right mid however we have struggled, gilberto on the right does not work, and ljungberg has been poor when he plays. NO bentley is not the answer to the right mid problem. the simple solution is buy a quality midfielder eg. van der meyde. this way we would have van der mayde vieira edu pires in the midfield. which is very strong. we would also have gilberto,clichy,freddie to cover in that position. i would also bring pennant back, now i know this wont happen, but its something i would do. he would provide more than adequate cover on the right and add another attacking option. attack we have henry,reyes who will be class together, with bergy in the sidelines along with bentley and ali coming through, i would also keep kanu for one more year.
defensively we need another defender. cole,clichy,toure,sol,lauren is not depth enough. cygan will leave i think. and we need another player before hoyte and senderos are readyto play first team football. maybe carr on a free transfer or mexes !!
we need to bring in a defender and 2 midfielders for next year if we really want the squad who can challenge sreiously ALL season.
i would have carr (free) mexes,van der meyde and bring back pennant and gio which add cover for no expense !!!! the squad then looks very strong indeed !
 

jeromelee

Well-Known Member
players

I'm not saying that we have to definitely buy good players such as kaka etc. I'm just giving examples of players with the kind of quality that we need to cover some positions such as in RM and RB. CM looks strong but still lacks the firepower that some other European teams hv. My suggestion is that someone like Davids could provide that cutting edge that our CM seem to lack sometimes (I said sometimes). Of course we hv edu that's coming of age but he does have off period and that's when we need to bring in someone else. And other than Gilberto for this season there's no one really left as parlour and wiltord is out.

I'm not saying arsenal aren't good, I'm just saying they still have a lot of areas that can be improved with the right players. And yes so does every single team in the world. But I'm not talking about any other team as I am an gooner fan. So my focus is how to make the gooners stronger. And more fearsome. We can sit here for 10yrs and debate hundreds of teams and thousands of players that can help each but I'm talking about arsenal and how we can still improve. Arsenal are definitely a good team and can play excellent football at times. But they still lack the depth to be a great team when we lose a couple of first 11 players.

That's why I agree with clockend's comment that

"to really seriously be challenging for all honours throughout the entire season we need greater depth. no doubt our starting 11 can match any in the world, and that is why we are doing so well. but for the last 2 years we have been going great, then suddenly start looking tired and start losing. this is because of our small squad and lack of quality cover in many positions."

That's precisely what I was getting at.
 

quattro

Well-Known Member
Sol Man said:
1 loss and there has been so much negativity all around this site.
precisely. in case anybody has not noticed it yet we ARE still challenging for top honors.

jeromelee said:
I'm not saying arsenal aren't good, I'm just saying they still have a lot of areas that can be improved with the right players.
again, something that is obvious for any team in the world.

And yes so does every single team in the world. But I'm not talking about any other team as I am an gooner fan. So my focus is how to make the gooners stronger. And more fearsome. We can sit here for 10yrs and debate hundreds of teams and thousands of players that can help each but I'm talking about arsenal and how we can still improve.
but you're not saying anything new. this kind of tripe has been the focus of discussion every time we hit a blip. so i will ask you, do you think suggesting infeasible solutions like getting people with the caliber of kaka and shevchenko (as if it were that simple) would be anything new or helpful? no. its just *****ing because we lost last saturday. thats all it is.

Arsenal are definitely a good team and can play excellent football at times. But they still lack the depth to be a great team when we lose a couple of first 11 players.
again, tell us something WE DONT KNOW. we have youth coming up. we dont have that much money because of the stadium and because we spent it on reyes. THAT is the reality. what good is going on and on about getting "classy" players when its obvious that the reality wont support it?

again, its all about moaning because we lost one bloody game.

we're all upset. we want our side to win all the time if that were possible... but this is not the time for wish lists. arsenal have been great all year. why are we degrading our season because of one loss?
 

Aussie

Established Member
One thing i noticed is that the man u supporters seem to be very worried about us. I think the they belived that we would win the treble more than we did.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
precisely. in case anybody has not noticed it yet we ARE still challenging for top honors
you would also notice that we dropped out of the Fa cup due to our players having to rest and the squad players not being capable enough. you would also notice that each week our team is looking more tired and playing worse each game. this had been all to evident recently and last year. i think that is a huge signal that we do need to strengthen our depth be quite a margin in order to have the fitness and talent to compete right through to the final day.
 

flotz

Active Member
we arent great yet because we dont have enough money
even if we play great football , its temporarly because to be a force in the long term we need to be able to compete financialy
 

jeromelee

Well-Known Member
As I always said, Arsenal lacked depth and yesterday's match against Chelsea spelt it out loud and clear. While they brought in Gronkjaer, Joe Cole and Crespo we brought in only Bergkamp as we had no other choice. Of course we don't have money like that, but I'm sure there are other players of such quality but with a lower price tag.
 

Mark

Established Member
Once we're in our new stadium we will have the money and hopefully still have the great football with a bit more fighting spirit and grit in the side that we had with players like Adams. Things will get better.
 

ethanen

Active Member
IMOA we dont lack depth.
i mean we have at least one substitud for every position (or we can move toure there...) and it is pointless and waste of money to keep players only for depth and play only few games a season.
not many players are willing to be that kind of player and for sure no class player will sign for us knowing he is a substitute.
 

jeromelee

Well-Known Member
But look at the game just morning? It was crazy. We played fantastic football for the first half, got the lead we thoroughly deserve. Came back for the second half and Gronkjaer was injected into Chelski's game plan. Suddenly Arsenal started looking vulnerable. Took a quick look at the sub's bench. And there wasn't any player I would willingly sub in if I was AW. So we pushed on, one absolutely disgraceful mistake by our so called German number one keeper (I've always always said he needs to go to beef up arsenal and not just after the chelsea match) and we're down. Instead of picking ourselves up, we look jaded. AW looks at the bench again, and starts warming up Bergy.

So bergy comes on for titi??? with crespo and joe cole coming on for chelski.

In my heart at that moment, I knew the tide had come. I'm no psychic but after the first half I was raring for the second half. But after chelski's equaliser, my heart was just thumping like mad. I didn't have much believe we could do it at that moment. Just felt bad.

We were thoroughly outplayed and because we had no real substitutions to put in to spark the team to life again.

2 more big games and morale so low. Looking bad. Looking bad. :cry: :cry:
 

kNiteMare

Active Member
ethanen said:
IMOA we dont lack depth.
i mean we have at least one substitud for every position (or we can move toure there...) and it is pointless and waste of money to keep players only for depth and play only few games a season.
not many players are willing to be that kind of player and for sure no class player will sign for us knowing he is a substitute.

Once injury and tight schedule (like this one) starts coming in we do lack depth. As it's starting to show.
 

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