LGBT and football

Discussion in 'Football Talk' started by Mark Tobias, Jan 12, 2018.

?

Is football ready to be accepting of homosexuals.

  1. Yes

    3 vote(s)
    23.1%
  2. No

    5 vote(s)
    38.5%
  3. It may be region dependant due to culture etc

    5 vote(s)
    38.5%
  1. Mark Tobias

    Mark Tobias Mr. Agreeable

    NOTE TO MODS: I've created a few threads. Please PM me if I am becoming a pest. Could not find a thread to this and didn't want to derail this thread although I feel in a way all forms of descrimination are related in some way or another.> https://arsenal-mania.com/forum/thr...ty-ethnic-managers-in-british-football.30565/

    AM, I'm curious on your thoughts. This is a sensitive topic. I would appreciate maturity, sensitivity towards fellow posters and most of all empathy.

    I pasted the above posts by @Tosker & @dashsnow17 from another discussion. It is strange that football seems so behind the times in certain aspects. I beleive the acceptance of homosexuals is one of them although arguably this is a problem in all sports.

    I also stumbled across this article earlier and wondered if Bellamy is right in his thoughts here http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ready-for-first-gay-player-says-craig-bellamy
    Is the global football community ready for gay footballers to be open? Are there any specific factors blocking this kind of accepting culture in the sport?

    Perhaps it is more region based. Certain countries seem to be more open and liberal.

    Some info I found on this. Although there isn't much. Almost as if the media are scared to touch on the subject.

    I'd love some feedback from proud gay posters although I wouldn't dare call anybody out or expect them to post. Again, I ask for maturity and sensitivy people.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/least-20-footballers-premier-league-11409395 - |I know, the Mirror "erg!"

    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/24/football/ryan-atkin-football-referee-homophobia/index.html

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...liam-davis-have-not-had-one-problem-football/


    I [personally feel that those who would be willing to accept this in football should state so and create the enviroment for which these players can feel at home and at ease about being honest and open.

    Whatever your thoughts on it, the game seems to be ready for serious evolution. Testing VAR, hugely inflated markets, countries which own teams. What a time to be alive.
     
    dashsnow17 likes this.
  2. Garrincha

    Garrincha Wilf Zaha Aficionado

    I dont think their are as many in pro team sports to 'come out' as often suggested in the media.

    The same ratio as general population is often lazily banded about but studies have shown less gay men go into pro sport & especially team pro sport.

    Of all the major team sports I would say football is more 'ready' than most due to the huge diversity of race, religion & country.
     
    El Granit-Coq and Mark Tobias like this.
  3. Dokaka

    Dokaka AM's resident Hammer

    I think it's the opposite tbh. The nature of football being a mostly working-class sport + the ostensibly encouraged abuse thrown at the players from the crowd makes for a toxic combination. Not to mention the sport is played in countries with completely backwards opinions on the issue. Being an openly gay footballer and going to Russia for a EL game wouldn't be a fun experience ie.

    Of all the sports, basketball (specifically the NBA) is clearly the most welcoming here in my opinion. Teams consist of 15 players, with 30 teams in total, resulting in a socially connected league. The people covering the sport are very progressive for the most part, and the league is already political. Several coaches have made public anti-Trump statements etc. The winners even decided not to go to the White House, even though it's tradition.

    There was actually a fantastic podcast about this exact thing recently involving an openly gay journalist who covers the NBA etc. The consensus seemed to be that it's not so much the stigma of being gay that's stopping players from coming out, but rather the increased positive attention -- which becomes a distraction -- that's stopping it. Professional athletes already operater under extreme pressure, NBA players probably more so than anyone else, and the added attention would simply be too time consuming and distracting.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  4. Garrincha

    Garrincha Wilf Zaha Aficionado

    ^Yeah maybe basketball. I remember reading last year the WNBA had a problem with straight people being bullied by its 'lesbian culture'!
     
    Dokaka likes this.
  5. Mark Tobias

    Mark Tobias Mr. Agreeable

    Wow Dok, thanks for the response. Some points I really had not thought of. Interesting opinion on the 'increased positive attention -- which becomes a distraction'. Quite possibly the case. Although I'd say the more who come out the less this would apply...

    The world has changed. Seems discrimination thrives in fear and at times mob mentality?
     
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  6. rich 1990

    rich 1990 Loves the A-M Mods

    What is not helping is the pressure on footballers to come out by the media in this country. Being gay should be like skin colour, a complete non issue.
     
  7. Dokaka

    Dokaka AM's resident Hammer

    Absolutely, but the problem is no one wants to be the first for the reasons I mentioned.

    Another great point they made was that it is much more likely that we'll see a player enter the NBA openly gay already than it is we'll see someone already established come out. This is mainly down to the growing acceptance of LGBT people, especially on colleges where all of these players come through via the draft etc. Seems a lot more likely that someone would come out in/before college and simply just "exist" their way into the league. It would probably also lessen the media attention compared to an established star coming out, as the whole "coming out" scenario is inherently attention grabbing.

    Indeed, but considering skin color still is a source of abuse and discrimination, it'll take a while before being openly gay is treated as a complete non-event. It's an ever smaller margin of society and it directly goes against our archaic societal culture of extreme masculinity being "cool", especially in athletes.
     
  8. Mark Tobias

    Mark Tobias Mr. Agreeable

    Agree Rich. Sorry if this thread seems to exacerbate that, I honestly had not thought of that. It is probably one of the most relevant points on the subject.
     
  9. pacstud

    pacstud Well-Known Member

    Obviously a "false" question in that a yes/no answer is impossible.

    I would wager that readiness is irrelevant. It will and needs to happen. Many will adjust seamlessly, many will not. It is, as always, generational. My grandparents witnessed racial integration and all the struggles that came with that. Now it is simply not thought of by 99% of the population. And yet even that is STILL an issue (Lukaku). Why?

    Tribalism (I prefer the term "Us"ism). Whatever group(s) I belong to are mine and acceptable. "Others" are a threat to me and concern me, therefore I do not like them.

    Few dozen more generations, we should be good. Unitards and one "people".
     
    celestis and Mark Tobias like this.
  10. Mark Tobias

    Mark Tobias Mr. Agreeable

    Something I could only dream of as I face the consequences, scars and difficulties faced by a nation which was so tragically engulfed in segregation and racism.
    It seems cultural advances are very definitely different for varying reasons around the world despite the increased connectivity through tech.
     
    celestis and GeorgiaGunner like this.
  11. pacstud

    pacstud Well-Known Member

    There is a Promethian price for this connectivity, the ironic divisiveness. Primarily, internet anonymity provides fertile grounds for hatred and bigotry. So the very tool that can and does unite, also divides.

    Also, the internet allows sub-groups to unite. You name a weird little hobby, say supporting an EPL team (the majority of the world would find us "weird") and there is an internet place for them. That's good. People with similar thoughts, ideas, practices can "meet". One negative byproduct is an increase in the number of organized collective sub-groups which inherently leads to higher levels of subversive intolerance.

    Or it's the Star Bellied Sneetches by Dr. Seuss.
     
  12. Tir Na Nog

    Tir Na Nog In Big Trouble If He Speaks

    Globally? Probably not, let's be honest. A lot of nations and certain groups of people still have homophobia ingrained into them to the extent that'd be dangerous for openly homosexual players to play in some countries.
     
    Gooner Zig and GeorgiaGunner like this.
  13. Mark Tobias

    Mark Tobias Mr. Agreeable

    Great point.
     
  14. GeorgiaGunner

    GeorgiaGunner Closet United Fan

    Depends on the definition of "accept," and which leagues we're talking about -- In the PL, he'll be lionized in the media, but probably somewhat shunned in the dressing room (and perhaps kicked on the pitch). Interesting times in which we live.
     
  15. dashsnow17

    dashsnow17 Established Member

    Great thread. As nice as it would be to not have to talk about it, it needs to be talked about, otherwise nothing will happen.

    It would be wrong of course to portray football as the last refuge of homophobia - and racism for that matter - distanced from the rest of a society that has evolved beyond those afflictions. Both homophobia and racism are societal problems, structurally so in the case of the latter.

    But certainly more could be done. The negative consequence of trying to do more is obviously to mistakenly harass people and exert undue pressure on them to be a figurehead that they may well not wish to be. If I was a gay footballer at Arsenal, for instance, I would feel confident that the club itself would accept and support me. What I wouldn't feel confident about however would be the intense publicity and media attention from all corners.

    How does the footballing world get past that initial collective hesitation? I don't know, to be honest.

    Clubs could start by trying to do more than just change their badge to a rainbow flag on one day a year. Imagine if there was an Arsenal float at the Pride parade in London with all the players on it and the LGBT supporters group? Something more bold and proactive like that, instead of the usual platitudes. Not just for homophobia but for racism too, the expected platitudes are all that people in positions of authority in football seem to do. They clearly don't care, when in fact it's in their interests to care.
     
  16. dashsnow17

    dashsnow17 Established Member

    I see your Promethean promise and I'll raise you a Sisyphean struggle.
     
    pacstud likes this.
  17. Rain Dance

    Rain Dance Well-Known Member Trusted

    what is there to accept?
    I have to incline to keep people's personal sex preference ... personal.
    I swear there has been more controversy about LGBT now then when my childhood.

    What does coming out "I am gay" effect football? Does it effect gameplay? nope.
    A gay player would still perform just as well as a hetero player.

    I think the main thing affected is showering together after match.
    And not showering together is not sexist. Same way a girl would not want to shower together with a guy unless they are intimate.
     
    GeorgiaGunner likes this.
  18. Mrs Bergkamp

    Mrs Bergkamp Well-Known Member

    The short answer is no. There are worldwide societal issues around this topic besides religious and cultural ones and I can't see them being broken down in football. Football is male dominated and even the most open minded men seem to have a "no go zone" as far being gay is concerned-it just seems to be
    "forbidden". Interestingly, this doesn't seem to be an issue (or as big an issue) in women's football and tennis so dare I say that in the West at least , it's all down to ingrained prejudice that is almost biological.
     
  19. Mo Britain

    Mo Britain Doom Monger

    I think sexuality should stay in the bedroom. It is completely irrelevant to football or to any other professional sport and the continued attempts to make this an issue are irritating. I don't give a damn what any Arsenal player does when he gets home to his girlfriend or boyfriend. And I don't want sermons on sex from them either, my interest in them is purely and simply as footballers. I don't care what they like to eat, what films they watch, what books they read, what clothes they wear, what holes they shag.
     
  20. c00lguy

    c00lguy Well-Known Member

    It is sad we haven't had any top premier league footballer 'come out' recently. People shouldn't have to come out but it shows the state that this taboo is in, despite a lot being done to combat it in recent times. Evidently a lot more needs to be done. But we are getting there, it will take time.
    I think it does depend on region. It's probably more accepted in Scandinavia considering they're the most liberal that I know of.
     

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