LGBT and football

[c00lguy]

I think sexuality should stay in the bedroom. It is completely irrelevant to football or to any other professional sport and the continued attempts to make this an issue are irritating. I don't give a damn what any Arsenal player does when he gets home to his girlfriend or boyfriend. And I don't want sermons on sex from them either, my interest in them is purely and simply as footballers. I don't care what they like to eat, what films they watch, what books they read, what clothes they wear, what holes they shag.

I have to disagree. We're still at a stage of fear in regards to players not classifying themselves as homosexual. In order for it to be a non issue it first of all has to be prevalent and widespread.
Players, fans, and staff alike might fear they'll suffer abuse from fans and/or players alike and that's not ok.

 

[Mo Britain]

And I have to disagree with that. people should be entitled to have whatever sexual inclination they are entitled to (within the law) without being abused but that does not mean t has to b "prevalent and widespread". People must be allowed to be what they are not what we want them to be and not what we brainwash them into being.

 

[Brown Gooner]

Politically incorrect post incoming. Sensitive people are cautioned to stop reading right now.

How about don’t ask, don’t tell? No one needs to know what you do in the privacy of your bedroom. It is none of my, or anyone else’s business to know what somebody is upto in the intimacy of one’s home.

Also I’d like to add two more points which I believe might have already been raised.
1. Not all footballers come from the same open minded Western backgrounds and I can see an openly gay player causing some type of locker room issues. Either a change in attitude of other players towards him, player segregation/straight players not talking with the gay player or straight up swear words being exchanged. There can be serious locker room problems.
2. The risk of abuse and threat a gay player would receive in Eastern European countries (Russia, Poland, etc.), Asian countries (Islamic ones in particular) and in certain South American countries would be too high. Imagine a gay player playing in one of those countries, he would need constant security and the abuse he would get from the crowds when the ball is passed to him would be ugly!

My two cents. Keep it professional and only about the sport. Keep Politics, Religion, Sexuality and the like out of it for the most part. These are polarising issues and football is meant to unify people.

 

[c00lguy]

Some countries tends to be more racist than others. It doesn't mean we should ignore it and pretend that it's ok.
Accepting homosexuality in football is a way of unifying people in football, just like accepting people from different backgrounds and skin colours.

 

[Brown Gooner]

Some countries tends to be more racist than others. It doesn't mean we should ignore it and pretend that it's ok.
Accepting homosexuality in football is a way of unifying people in football, just like accepting people from different backgrounds and skin colours.

I get where you’re coming from, but even the most racist redneck would accept that a person has no control over his race. A White man cannot help being born White to White parents. A Brown man (myself) cannot help being brown and so on and so forth. A person has zero control over his/her race.

However, a significant number of people on the planet who don’t approve of homosexuality tend to think of it as a choice. Many openly anti-gay countries genuinely believe homosexuals to be sexual deviants who chose to willfully engage in sodomy. So comparing race to sexual orientation is sort of like apples to oranges.

Also, whether someone likes it or not, sexual activity is seen as a very personal and intimate aspect of one’s life so people tend to be more defensive about their private views on that deeply personal topic.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

"Dont' ask don't tell" is easy when you're not the one unable to live their lives openly.

**** that.

 

[SuperGoon]

First openly gay footballer is not something that is easily done. I can imagine the chants from opposition fans if someone gay is out of form. That first openly gay player isn't just playing against another team but the world. For the rest of their career. They'll always been known as the "First Gay Player,"

They'd need incredible mental strength. I don't see it happening for the next 5 years. Football is still in the stoneage when it comes to social issues.

I remember reading Arsenal Facebook, when a pro-gay campaign was in the PL. The amount of middle-eastern and african people who were spewing hatred was disheartening especially from what I believe is such a forward thinking club. The world isn't ready for it, yet. Sadly.

 

[IslingtonBornandbred]

I'm in the camp of, if someone is gay, why do they need to "come out" in public? I think that's part of the issue. I'm sure there are straight players who keep their private life private. I mean, it's perfectly feasible for a player to be gay, and mention it to a couple of close teammates but that's how far it goes i.e "See you guys later, I can't make that team dinner because I'm going out with Tom". I don't see why people want to make it a big issue or announcement. I think the number of gay footballers is a lot lower than general statistics make out and I also believe that the small minority who are gay may/would prefer to keep it private. I mean, it doesn't have to be because they feel uncomfortable in "coming out" it just means they don't want the attention or to be labelled. I don't care if the guy serving me at the store is gay or if Messi is gay. It doesn't change anything apart from what goes on in their private life.

I think for the most part, in this day and age, team-mates wouldn't really care, and that's where it starts and stops. The clamour for 60,000 fans in a stadium and more to know player's sexuality is irrelevant in my opinion. Who actually wants to know apart from those groups who promote and are on the news constantly talking about it just for the sake of it.

I'd say it's important a player can feel comfortable at his place of work, but he doesn't need to announce his sexuality to the masses.

 

[Toby]

people should be entitled to have whatever sexual inclination they are entitled to (within the law) without being abused but that does not mean t has to b "prevalent and widespread". People must be allowed to be what they are not what we want them to be and not what we brainwash them into being.

That's circular reasoning, sort of. Before something can become a private, non publicly distinguishing or discussed matter or trait, it has to be accepted in society as a non discriminating trait, which is not worth of discussion anymore. Your reasoning, I assume unintentionally, lends itself to people having to "hide" who they are in public.
What you say is absolutely right, society should not interfere with a person's personality, sexuality and more generally the whole private life, and it should not influence on how persons behave, especially in their private life. Like you say, people should be allowed to be who they are. But that doesn't happen if any socially controversial case remains a matter of closely guarded privacy, because in any size of community and regarding any person, exactly this private life is under constant observation and scrutiny by those around.

 

[al-Ustaadh]

"Dont' ask don't tell" is easy when you're not the one unable to live their lives openly.

**** that.

I'd add to this that cultural products like football and music are soap boxes for these issues. To think they wont become involved in the political discussion is rather ridiculous. They're the normalities of life that the LGBT community wants to be a part of. Don't understand how people wouldn't expect otherwise.

 

[Giroud12]

Looking at all African and islamic countries, and some European and South American ones, the time is obviously nowhere near ready.

What I would like to see though, in relation to all kinds of abuse, is much, much stricter punishment from Fifa/Uefa. Now, I dont really think they care too much - seeing all the deeply rooted corruption I dont think the top guys in football care about much other than their own wealth (Clearly examplified by giving the world cup to a country struggling with homophobia and racism, and a country with numerous human rights violations, widespread use of slave labour, and no football culture). Still, I would love to see them really make an example out of those teams struggling with different kinds of abuse. F*ck that "1 point deducted, 1 game without fans" sh*t.

How about a 20 point deduction, immediate relegation, that sort of thing? Would really force the teams to take action. Next time some black player is abused in Russia, simply ban that team from the CL for the next 5 years. As soon as the owners and executives see the profit falling, sh*t will start to change.

 

[MaraDon]

Since I think this is a sensitive issue and its not been discussed in the mainstream I would try to open a conversation about sexual and gender diversity in Football.



on the importance of having an elite player coming out of the closet.


It’s getting harder to be LGBT in the world. It feels like the football community acts like he is on board with welcoming diversity but at the same time it is 2018 and we are still waiting for a major player to feel comfortable enough to come out. It speaks volumes about us as fans, but it also exposes both the FIFA and the leaders of all the biggest teams and leagues.


Today on the Arsenal Facebook account i see that the profile picture got changed to one that promotes diversity.


the most voted and celebrated response is. Say no to LGTB. It broke my heart.


This is not "just trolling" this is how a big part of our community feels about diversity.


I invite you all to give your honest opinion. And as usual, sorry for my English, it’s possible that I’m not writing exactly what I want to say and what I think about this. But I wanted to try it.

 

[pigge]

Im not really part of THE traditional football culture as i think its quite vulgar plus i live in sweden. Ive also never been a macho guy. So never really notice how it is live. I dont think its getting harder to be lgbt, at least not in sweden. Compared to 20 years ago i think its has developed greatly. Dont realy think its getting worse either. However, haters usually are more prone to write these kinds of things IMO which make them more visible and skew the perception.

And it feels wierd that people still care so much about people being different from themselves while hurting noone. I remember someone saying "they might just be afraid a man would treat them the same way they treat women"

 

[MaraDon]

 

[GoonerJeeves]

Women's football is years ahead in this respect.

 

[Toby]

Do you think there's actually players who are out to their teammates or in the realm of their club, but for whatever reasons not publicly? It's just something that's crossed my mind and I thought is interesting to ponder.

On it being harder to be LGBT: I don't know. I'm not homosexual and basically have no ties to the community, so I'm in no shoes to talk about offenses and affronts and how it actually feels or what the current state is - following the reasoning just 'cause I don't belong to that certain group and thus don't experience it it doesn't exist.

What I can say is that it's feels kind of twofold. On one hand the public seems to be very, very tolerating by now. Almost disinterested. There's a gay man running for Merkel's succession in the biggest German party and even the extreme right party has a lesbian woman as their figurehead and it's caused basically no roar, nor discussion. Kind of like that's just how it is. In the mainstream media the caricaturistic representation of gay men and lesbian women as effeminate and respectively manly to exploit them as mostly comedic relief has definitely regressed. There's this roughly 10 year old German parody film by one of the most well known German comedians, based on the German/French/Jugoslawian Winnetou Karl May movie adaptations, and it features an absolutely over the top effimante gay Native American - and 'cause of exactly that character it has basically become unwatchable for most anyone I know, when at the time it came out it was the standout feature of the the movie. It seems as if people have largely outgrown the trend to mock homosexuality in such stereotypical ways or enjoy it.

On the other hand, in certain peer groups, it's not mocking or fear or hate of homosexuality, but the swear words derived from a homosexual background or which have been used to slander homosexuals is still very rampant. Although in the most cases, the words have of course not been cut off from where they came from and thus how they became swear words, but still of the direct connotation or insinuation of homosexuality. E.g. the use of faggot. It's derived from the slandering of homosexual men as unmanly, but by now has seemingly lost it's direct connotation to homosexuality itself. So when you're called a faggot they still call you an "unmanly man" but don't mean you're gay anymore. The big problem here is of course still the notion that even if it's somehow lost it's direct homosexual connotation, it still has that background of coming in to use as a word defaming a minority.
In other peer groups though, especially in such groups traditionally used by men to reassure themselves and other of their manliness or even to impose it on others - male only friend groups, the football stadium or pitch, or groups made up of older men - seem to still have that sort of fear or unacceptance and outdated picutre of homosexual men as overly effeminate, weak, etc. and in more extreme cases still use the actual sexuality as slander. Unfortunately, football stands are still the place where I most often hear outright use of homosexuality as slander. Interestingly, though, in most cases of this I know, these people will use far less aggressive words - they'll use the publicly accepted "descriptive", but to say very homophobic things.
So paradoxically, there's a group of people that use ("ex"-) homophobic swear words in a way that's varyingly disconnected from homosexuality displaying anything from disinterest to tolerance to outright acceptance of homosexuality in their private opinion, and then there's groups that refrain from using homophobic swear words but are inherently homophobic or at least generally unaccepting of it in their private opinion. And - using the football example again, there's of course homophobes using homophobic swear words.
This is an interesting topic to me as it deals with multiple angles and themes; sexuality, society, peer groups, language, etc.

Regarding homosexual footballers I can only say that Thomas Hitzlsperger, ex-VfB Stuttgart captain, West Ham, Aston Villa, Everton and German NT player, known for his energetic, hard man and powerful playing style along great mentality and leadership, is widely accepted across the Stuttgart fandom as an out, homosexual man and only mocked for it by an absolute minority of idiots. He's regarded as one of the better and intelligent pundits on German TV. His coming out basically didn't have any bearing on his standing. But then again: He was already retired.

 

[BaZZe]

Women's football is years ahead in this respect.

Very true, a lot of big women players have come out publicly as LGBT while I have yet to see any big mens player do the same. Sad really that mens football is so behind on this issue that the mens LGBT players don't feel comfortable to come out.

 

[Notorious Big]

Very true, a lot of big wonen players have come out publicly as LGBT while I have yet to see any big mens player do the same. Sad really that mens football is so behind on this issue that the mens LGBT players don't feel comfortable to cone out.

Think that men had more problems than women to present themselves as LGBT.

 

[Giroud12]

Sadly we're a long, long way from any kind of equality in football. Just look at the rainbow pic the FB page posted - about 25 % of the comments are cünts reacting with the angry emoji. Absolute disgrace and wish the club would come out much stronger in regards to LGBT rights. Full rainbow kits next year would be cool.

I do think there's some hope in the modern countries, but let's face it, in 90 % of the world we're literally centuries away.

It's the same as with racism or any other kind of discrimination, all talk makes no difference or real change. 20 point ban and 5 matches behind closed doors would make clubs and fans take this sheit seriously.

 

[YeahBee]

We are maybe just a few years away from it

Not because of players

Most players nowadays are kids of the 80s/90s we are "with the times"
Still many coaches, staff and executives are still old farts, but footballs global thing can also delay it, not all come from liberal Western countries

Maybe we wont see that many for various reasons

But dont worry the female players make up for it

I still remember buying Thomaz hitzelberger on cm/FM he was quite a player