Life After Emery Begins

[Slartibartfast]

And football fans tend to forget how much context is important to any player's developpement or performances.

I'm pretty sure Soyuncu would have struggled a lot in our team because right now, all the CBs we've been trying since Per/Kos look like clowns, even though most of them were at least ok, if not solid at their previous club.

Soyuncu is a talented young CB, and he's in a very positive context right now that allows him to display his qualities.

Of course there are differences between clubs, but the point is that Soyuncu is a quality young player. You don't reject quality young players just because things at your club are a mess at the moment. You acquire them and hope that they can be part of the solution. Otherwise, what was the point of buying Saliba?

 

[Ceballinhos]

Of course there are differences between clubs, but the point is that Soyuncu is a quality young player. You don't reject quality young players just because things at your club are a mess at the moment. You acquire them and hope that they can be part of the solution. Otherwise, what was the point of buying Saliba?

I remember I wasn't sold on Soyuncu back then, because we were reported to have a very low budget and I thought our focus should have been on a more proven and experienced CB.

We couldn't develop Holding or Chambers, so I didn't think it was worth it to get yet another young CB when we needed experience asap.

 

[YeahBee]

So in other words 99.99999% of the players who play for us will not be considered to have Arsenal DNA. That includes Henry, Viera, Ljungberg, RVP, Bergkamp

Pretty dumb criteria if it excludes most of our recent greats.

Arteta was also here half a decade. What is a long time then??

How does it exclude them?

All were here longer

I'd count RVP because he Kinda came as a youth

Henry obviously even thou he was not here that much longer then Arteta

Several factors play in

Paddy and Henry were sorta saved by Arsenal, they became the greats they are here

Arteta just was here

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Football is not only about raw talents and X and O.
you have to find the right balance, and right now, no matter how I think about it, I don't see how we can field a functioning midfield that can match Leicester's for instance.
We have no Ndidi in the squad to do the dirty work and protect our back 4.
With Bellerin being injured so much, we're forced to play players out of position. AMN & Chambers are terrible when they play RB.
We're playing the weakest midfield by far in the PL. And they're not talented enough to close the gap with their lack of physicality.

Even though Emery has been a failure at Arsenal, there are things you can't overcome. He's tried almost any possible configuration at midfield, and none of them has showed any promises.
When 95% of teams in the PL have faster/stronger midfielders that can bully ours, I don't see how you can overcome it by coaching.

Hell even Ramsey's loss was brutal, he was the only CM at the club with above average athleticism, he had an incredible engine, who can match the PL intensity.

I do see what you're saying and I do agree to an extent, however the balance of the midfield looked reasonable with similar personnel to the stage where we went 22 games unbeaten more or less this time last season.

Probably one reasonably physical midfielder would help, but I do think the tendency to underrate a team who is playing poorly is what's going on at the moment, and of course Ramsey's loss is one of the key issues in the squad.

 

[YeahBee]

You thought all those rash challenges were a vitamin injection.

Mind you, you thought Nacho was crap.

If you go back there were all sorts of positive posts about them...

 

[Riou]

I kinda agree with your point, even though I don't think Luiz is slow for his size, and Bellerin & Tierney are fast enough imo.

But we should first be working on our fundamentals, and try to build a balanced squad.

Against Norwich we've played with 2 CF (nobody does it anymore at the higher level) + no wingers (when they're the most impactful player on offense in the modern game) + Özil (who isn't known for his athletic impact) + Guendouzi (I rate him highly, but he's still not there yet in term of athlecism) + Willock (who's still weak) + Xhaka (who is one of the most static CM in the league) + Chambers (who doesn't have the body type to play at RB)
And then on the bench we only have Torreira (who's a midget).

This is a recipe for a disaster to happen.
We're puting too much blame on our CBs, even though they've been terrible, the lack of physicality in the team doesn't help, at all.

We need more athleticism in the team ASAP. We're getting bullied by any PL midfield it's embarrassing.
Any above average athlete can cut through our midfield with breeze.

On average, if you look at Liverpool's team, they're 2 galaxies ahead in term of pure athleticism. Their players are faster and much stronger than ours the comparison is not even fair.

A team of...

Leno
Bellerín-Luiz-Papa-Tierney
Lucas
Ceballos-Willock
Pepe-Auba-Martinelli​

...is what I would go for, think it’s the best we can do right now...think it would help us, even a little.

 

[goonergaz]

Personally I feel people are under estimating our team...we're really not that far off top 4 with the squad we have IMHO.

The CBs are too exposed but (for me) the main issue is we need a couple of top class players/leaders (DM and CB) and we need to teach this team the very basics of defending - you know, like closing down the player with the ball instead of constantly backing off and letting him shoot also about tracking players back.

This year is a write-off unfortunately unless we can hang on in there and get someone in during January...the biggest opportunity for me is Chelsea dropping away.

 

[14Henry]

Personally I feel people are under estimating our team...we're really not that far off top 4 with the squad we have IMHO.

The CBs are too exposed but (for me) the main issue is we need a couple of top class players/leaders (DM and CB) and we need to teach this team the very basics of defending - you know, like closing down the player with the ball instead of constantly backing off and letting him shoot also about tracking players back.

This year is a write-off unfortunately unless we can hang on in there and get someone in during January...the biggest opportunity for me is Chelsea dropping away.

You say a couple of players but 2-3 players is almost 20-30% of the team that is a lot. And the thing is we have said for years we need a physically athletic holder and a commanding centre half for years. We buy a dcm 5ft5 and a centre half who's rash and wreckless.

 

[Manberg]

We have a bad defence and a bad midfield. A lot of surgery is needed and it will take a lot of time and a lot of money.
By the time we get a proper midfield and defence we’ll need new forwards too. Auba is 30.

 

[scytheavatar]

I do see what you're saying and I do agree to an extent, however the balance of the midfield looked reasonable with similar personnel to the stage where we went 22 games unbeaten more or less this time last season.

Probably one reasonably physical midfielder would help, but I do think the tendency to underrate a team who is playing poorly is what's going on at the moment, and of course Ramsey's loss is one of the key issues in the squad.

It's not just Ramsey, the lost of Kos/Monreal/Iwobi/Mkhi has hit us very hard. Iwobi and Mkhi by themselves are replaceable, but losing both has left us short in options. Monreal was our best player this season before we sold him for no reason, and Kos was our best defender last season despite being past it and near retirement. Our summer transfer window was disastrous, a lot of fans don't appreciate how the players we brought are not enough to make up for the players we lost. Then there's the issue of Maitland Niles, who was an important player last season but then something has happened to him.

Perhaps one day fans will realize what damage we have done to our squad in the past 2 seasons.

 

[MutableEarth]

Listening to Statsbomb podcast. Ted Knutson recommends Marco Rose. I like that choice.

 

[Tosker]

I actually mentioned a while back, before the reports came out, that Marcelino would be on the shortlist as he fits Raul's managerial profile exactly: He is Spanish, has managed exclusively in Spain, and as a free agent he would be cheaper than some of the other names under consideration.

Not sure why people are calling him an 'Emery clone'. Just because they both are Spanish and have both managed Valencia before, that does not make them the same. Like how Enrique is not a Pep clone, even though they are both Spanish and have both managed Barcelona.

Marcelino has massively overachieved with both Villarreal and Valencia. He literally took Villarreal from the Liga Segunda to the Champions League in a matter of years, and guided Valencia back into the top four and won them the Copa del Rey. He has also been approached previously by Inter Milan and Lyon, so he's not an absolute nobody like some fans seem to think.

Obviously he's not guaranteed to have an impact in the Premier League, but he has a good track record and is known for improving his teams defensively.

an Emery clone because he almost certainly does not speak English, would bring with him a team who also don't speak English, and so all the problems re communication will be cloned

 

[Garrincha]

Im not sure its an expensive rebuild as cheap positions.

We have 4/5 of our long term back five signed... The DM & well rounded CM positions are cheap. Perfect example how PSG snapped up Idrissa Gueye for 25m + a reasonable contract.

Only other positions are a partner for Pepe on the opposite wing if one of the strikers want out.

Squad just needs balancing & players to complement what we already have.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

It's not just Ramsey, the lost of Kos/Monreal/Iwobi/Mkhi has hit us very hard. Iwobi and Mkhi by themselves are replaceable, but losing both has left us short in options. Monreal was our best player this season before we sold him for no reason, and Kos was our best defender last season despite being past it and near retirement. Our summer transfer window was disastrous, a lot of fans don't appreciate how the players we brought are not enough to make up for the players we lost. Then there's the issue of Maitland Niles, who was an important player last season but then something has happened to him.

Perhaps one day fans will realize what damage we have done to our squad in the past 2 seasons.

Iwobi was trash for us tbh, don't think his loss is anything to worry about.

Mkhi wasn't the player he was at previous clubs, not sure he would be giving us an awful lot this year.

Agreed with you on Kos and Monreal, but the problem you have with these players as a club is that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you keep them, you're accused of having "deadwood on the wage bill?!?!" and if you lose them and it goes wrong, then you're accused of selling experienced players who could help the younger ones through.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that hindsight is always 20/20.

 

[Sapient Hawk]

They may have more money, but the Manchester United job is a poisoned chalice right now. The squad is jumbled and unambitious, the upper management are inept, and their transfer policy over recent years has been badly coordinated. They gave very short shrift to the two world-class coaches (van Gaal & Mourinho) who were brought in to fix the rot, because even they couldn't deliver success with this inadequate group of players and dysfunctional hierarchy.

Don't get me wrong, United are still a big club, but they have massive problems which may be too daunting for Poch.

Also worth bearing in mind the difference between living in London and living in Manchester. Mourinho never settled in Manchester and lived in a hotel while he was managing United, and after he was sacked he returned to his home in London.



I actually mentioned a while back, before the reports came out, that Marcelino would be on the shortlist as he fits Raul's managerial profile exactly: He is Spanish, has managed exclusively in Spain, and as a free agent he would be cheaper than some of the other names under consideration.

Not sure why people are calling him an 'Emery clone'. Just because they both are Spanish and have both managed Valencia before, that does not make them the same. Like how Enrique is not a Pep clone, even though they are both Spanish and have both managed Barcelona.

Marcelino has massively overachieved with both Villarreal and Valencia. He literally took Villarreal from the Liga Segunda to the Champions League in a matter of years, and guided Valencia back into the top four and won them the Copa del Rey. He has also been approached previously by Inter Milan and Lyon, so he's not an absolute nobody like some fans seem to think.

Obviously he's not guaranteed to have an impact in the Premier League, but he has a good track record and is known for improving his teams defensively.

And we don't?

If anything, we're even worse. Auba & Leno are the only 2 propping up this side on opposite ends of the field. Everything in the middle requires either polishing or replacing.

Let's not forget United can throw money at the problem till the cows go to pilgrimage on their horns whilst we're not exactly flush with cash. He would be mad to come to us over them but I'm all for it

 

[goonergaz]

You say a couple of players but 2-3 players is almost 20-30% of the team that is a lot. And the thing is we have said for years we need a physically athletic holder and a commanding centre half for years. We buy a dcm 5ft5 and a centre half who's rash and wreckless.

Oh yeah, I totally agree - this has been obvious for many years and we've been close to a couple of potential signings to fix the main issue but then a sexier option comes up (Özil, Sanchez, Auba) and the suckers get hooked and the fans forget the main issue due to the excitement.

 

[Ceballinhos]

I do see what you're saying and I do agree to an extent, however the balance of the midfield looked reasonable with similar personnel to the stage where we went 22 games unbeaten more or less this time last season.

Probably one reasonably physical midfielder would help, but I do think the tendency to underrate a team who is playing poorly is what's going on at the moment, and of course Ramsey's loss is one of the key issues in the squad.

And yet during this unbeaten run, by all metrics, we were overperforming, we were conceding a lot of shots and didn't create enough.

Ultimately, it has caught us by the end of the season.

It's not just about having a powerful DM that would bring balance to the squad. We just have too many players that are not fit (some of them are still young and can develop and get stronger) to match the PL intensity.

We have by far the weakest midfielders in the league on pure athleticism.

Any above average CM tears us apart and we have no answer to it.

At the end of the day, you can't have a decent midfield in England with only players like Özil Ceballos Guendouzi Torreira Xhaka Willock. They're all under average athletes.

We can't match the intensity of the PL anymore and it's really hurting us.

Even our best period during the decade we were much stronger on pure athleticism, Coquelin had a really positive impact when he came back from Charlton. Song and Diaby even though they had their flaws had a positive impact too. When Diaby took the ball and started going there weren't many players who were able to stop him. Ramsey had an incredible engine. Hell even Rosicky when fit had a great engine too.

I won't even talk about the invincible era when we had the perfect mix of raw strengh/speed/raw talent. There was simply no answer for a player like Vieira.

We just have too many static/weak players. We can't win a header to save our lives in midfield they get bullied every single time.

It's not a coincidence if the Liverpool team Klopp has built is full of pure physical monsters.
That's why his team is Pep's Kryptonite, because even City can't match their athleticism. They've found the perfect balance between talent & strength.

And if you look at the most successful team in the PL of the decade, they all had much better athletes than us, right now.

 

[Ceballinhos]

A team of...

Leno
Bellerín-Luiz-Papa-Tierney
Lucas
Ceballos-Willock
Pepe-Auba-Martinelli​

...is what I would go for, think it’s the best we can do right now...think it would help us, even a little.

This midfield would get killed by its lack of athleticism imo.
We can try it but I don't have too many hopes.

Imo we should try Chambers/Luiz one day in midfield. It's far from being ideal, but we don't have anybody else in the squad who could bring some raw power.
And try to get at least a competent DM who is an above athlete player.

 

[Sanchez11]

Need some more rumours

 

[Manberg]

I can’t see Rodgers leaving Leicester at this moment, even if £15m is offered. Leicester are doing incredibly well and they’re bound to finish ahead of us. Maybe he moves on in the summer, but certainly not mid season.