Life After Emery Begins

[yorch44]

Why not change coach when we're just 6 points off the chase, instead of 9?
Why wait for this Leicester game?

Obviously new coach wont be able to turn it around in a week, but at least the players and fans will have their hope revived, and the coach will have one more week to set up his system and get to know the players

Because a lot would say we should keep Emery if he wins against Leicester even if we do it playing horrible football.

 

[Aussie_gunner123]

If Emery is sacked if there is no positive result & it seems the players also want him gone, lack of communication, wonder if there is any chance the players won't play their best for 1 game to make less of a chance of a win? I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of our fans quietly go for Leicester during the game. Imo he needs to go now no doubt despite the result anyway.

 

[Jae]

These are our fixtures up until New Year.

Leicester A
Southampton H
Norwich A
Brighton H
West Ham A
City H
Everton A
Bournemouth A
Chelsea H
Man Utd H

I honestly can't see us winning any of these games. I think if he loses at home to Southampton and Brighton he'll be gone.

Can see us getting about 5 points maximum.

 

[samshere]

The time to sack him is now. When there'll be 30 odd games to judge the new manager. If we get someone with 10-15 games remaining, the new manager bounce will be enough to see the team perform better and we'll never know if the manager is good or not.

 

[Highbury]

Wenger and Mourinho have played 19 times and Mourinho has won 10 which easily reflects the large difference he's had in spend over the years since coming in 2004. For 8 of those years his squad had more than treble the cost of Wengers.

Mourinho is the highest spending manager ever, he's bought his way to those titles with boring boring football.

When he took over United he had the second richest team in the league and he got a 58% win rate. Wenger managed a 58% win rate over 22 years with much lower spend!!

And in all those years Wenger never once took Arsenal to one place above the relegation zone by p!ssing off the players, because they loved and respected him.

Wenger was not only a footballing genius but a very classy human being, much respected by footballing organising and players all over the world.

Mourinho is just a self absorbed prick who could never take a lower spending side and make it better than the sum of it's parts like Wenger did for a ridiculous amount of time. Wenger is twice the manager Mourinho will ever be on so many fronts.

How much did Mourinho spend with Porto to win the CL at a time when Wenger had the best team in Europe?

Wenger’s failure to win the CL with the Invincibles is ample proof that he did not have the ability to win trophies like Mourinho. You can disagree if you chose to, but I really don’t see Wenger winning as triple with the 2009-10 Inter side. Tactically he wasn’t at the level of Mourinho and would have lost to Barcelona playing attractive football instead of producing an ugly but effective performance like Mourinho did.

Finally, as I said, it is absurd to justify Mourinho’s clearly superior h2h record against Wenger simply down to his bigger purse. Yes that was a factor, but the other factor was that he was also a superior tactician.

You are right that Wenger is a better manager on several fronts, but the opposite is also true. I think that at this moment, the club needs those metrics (the ones where Mourinho is better) more in order to compete.

 

[Make]

I`m starting to fraid with Leicester. I think that they are better than us, and them could be in top 4th.

 

[Highbury]

It appears that most of the folks here are Arsène Wenger FC fans not Arsenal FC fans. They are confusing Wenger’s philosophy and style with Arsenal’s philosophy and style.

They will have you believe that had Wenger not showed up at the club, we would at the level of Everton etc now.

The 1-0 to the Arsenal under George Graham and the counter-attacking football of Herbert Chapman are as much a part of Arsenal’s identity and philosophy as the Wengerball and giving youth players a chance.

Wenger does not define the club or its values. He simply oversaw a very important period of the club and because of that his legacy is set in stone. However, Arsenal is under no obligation to continue on his philosophy when it clearly stopped working in the second half of his career here. Moving forward, we cannot take every decision based on how it will impact Wenger’s legacy.

Wenger loyalists are free to stop supporting the club if they hold his values more dear than the success of the club. The rest of us are more than happy to ditch his values if it brings glory back to the club.

As far as the notion that Mourinho will not give chances to future Ballon d’Or winners like Martinelli, Nelson, Saka, Willock and Rowe is concerned, that again is just ridiculous. Vast majority of them will not even prove to be good enough for this level in the future.

That is how football works. The overwhelming majority don’t make it as top players no matter how talented they seem in the academies and when they first break into the first-team.

If Mourinho can see through their mediocrity and this point and replaces them with superior players, more power to him. Yes he has mistreated the likes of Salah and KDB, but the majority of youngsters that he has supposedly ditched have not proved him wrong at other clubs, so I am happy to trust his judgement.

Wenger’s loyalists makes you feel pessimistic, but the good thing is that they are not the ones to make the decisions. Raul and co will do what is best for the club at this point regardless of its impact on Wenger’s legacy or Wenger’s loyalists.

 

[Sammy1887]

I'm pretty sure that happened at Madrid and we all know the soap opera with Pogba.

Pogba is not exactly a saint either. Spends more time on his hair then improving his game.

 

[Highbury]

Is it unquestionable though? There is no question he was an elite manager, truly exceptional for a long period of time. However a valid question asked about Mourinho is, has the game moved on from from his time? Does his man management skills seem out of date? The siege mentality he loves to create doesn't seem to be as effective as before.

Maybe he still is elite and just needs the right club and players.

That is the big question. Is the old magic still there? Sadly, looking at his career it actually raises more doubts.

If we start from 2002 when he had his first full season as a manager, for the next decade he won the league 7 times and finshed as runners up 3 times. So he didn't finish lower than 2nd place. That included spells at 4 different clubs in 4 different countries. He also won 2 CL in that time. This period, there is no question he is elite, arguably the best manager around.

Into his 2nd managerial decade, he starts by finishing 3rd with Chelsea. While he does win the league the season after, he starts to struggle again. He gets sacked while Chelsea sit 16th in the league the following season. And this after a third of the season had been played.

He joins Man Utd and finishes 6th, then 2nd. His 3rd season he is sacked when his team sit 11 points off the top 4, a massive 20 points behind Liverpool, while spending nearly £400m on players. Yes he has had some issues to deal with both at Chelsea and United (some would say most of it was caused by him in the first place) and in United's case he had to take over a struggling team. But that raises that question again, if he was still truly elite wouldn't he found a way, rather than for example engineer the worst start Man Utd have had for 28 years in his third season? (Just realised that means even Moyes didn't start the season as bad, which shows how much he was struggling). This period obviously is a very mixed bag. Some of it very alarming if you were a club thinking of appointing him. To me it seems he is a different manager than the one in the first period, not only in result but in his demeanour.

In short, I'm still not sure if he can conjure up his old magic or like many managers before him the game has passesd him by. I won't completely write him off but we do have to acknowledge there are some doubts wether he can rule supreme once again.

I have my doubts too, but there isn’t a single candidate who doesn’t come with risks and negative points. However, none of those candidates are as proven as Mourinho either. I suppose it depends on whether you value the positives or the negatives.

 

[Highbury]

Please stop projecting bias on to others when defending your arguments. It’s insulting, full stop. It’s the same accusation many here used for the past year plus to attack anyone who was critical of Emery. You make some good points overall, but **** off with this bias bullshit.

Comparing (rating Emery over Wenger) to dismissing Mourinho drives home the bias point. I never rated Emery and wanted Arteta over him, simply because it was a left field choice and could have worked like Lampard at Chelsea. Emery though has never proved himself to be a top level coach and we were deluded to think he would have a big impact here.

Rating Wenger over Mourinho is definitely a biased outlook and is not backed by objectivity. Mourinho has had far more success in his career and has also dominated Wenger in individual matches. There are some metrics where Wenger is better, but there are even more metrics where Mourinho trumps Wenger.

 

[Fewtch]

Im already sick of the Mourinho fanboys and he hasn’t even arrived yet.

 

[Preacher]

Is Mourinho the right man for the Arsenal job? No.

Would I take Mourinho over Emery? Yes.

We're in a pickle.

 

[bingobob]

Bayern looking a new manager. Yup, just what I feared happening. We are not first in the queue anymore.

 

[field442]

Bayern looking a new manager. Yup, just what I feared happening. We are not first in the queue anymore.

They want Ragnick or Haag apparently.

 

[Dennis_Bergkamp_10]

These are our fixtures up until New Year.

Leicester A
Southampton H
Norwich A
Brighton H
West Ham A
City H
Everton A
Bournemouth A
Chelsea H
Man Utd H

I honestly can't see us winning any of these games. I think if he loses at home to Southampton and Brighton he'll be gone.

Can see us getting about 5 points maximum.

I just hope the game plays out well tactically.

 

[<<reed>>]

Is Mourinho the right man for the Arsenal job? No.

Would I take Mourinho over Emery? Yes.

We're in a pickle.

It's really that simple.
If Raul thinks Mou is the best we can get atm - do it and deal with it.

 

[Gunner D]

It appears that most of the folks here are Arsène Wenger FC fans not Arsenal FC fans. They are confusing Wenger’s philosophy and style with Arsenal’s philosophy and style.

They will have you believe that had Wenger not showed up at the club, we would at the level of Everton etc now.

The 1-0 to the Arsenal under George Graham and the counter-attacking football of Herbert Chapman are as much a part of Arsenal’s identity and philosophy as the Wengerball and giving youth players a chance.

Wenger does not define the club or its values. He simply oversaw a very important period of the club and because of that his legacy is set in stone. However, Arsenal is under no obligation to continue on his philosophy when it clearly stopped working in the second half of his career here. Moving forward, we cannot take every decision based on how it will impact Wenger’s legacy.

Wenger loyalists are free to stop supporting the club if they hold his values more dear than the success of the club. The rest of us are more than happy to ditch his values if it brings glory back to the club.

As far as the notion that Mourinho will not give chances to future Ballon d’Or winners like Martinelli, Nelson, Saka, Willock and Rowe is concerned, that again is just ridiculous. Vast majority of them will not even prove to be good enough for this level in the future.

That is how football works. The overwhelming majority don’t make it as top players no matter how talented they seem in the academies and when they first break into the first-team.

If Mourinho can see through their mediocrity and this point and replaces them with superior players, more power to him. Yes he has mistreated the likes of Salah and KDB, but the majority of youngsters that he has supposedly ditched have not proved him wrong at other clubs, so I am happy to trust his judgement.

Wenger’s loyalists makes you feel pessimistic, but the good thing is that they are not the ones to make the decisions. Raul and co will do what is best for the club at this point regardless of its impact on Wenger’s legacy or Wenger’s loyalists.

Just because some people don’t want Jose, it doesn’t make them ‘Wenger loyalists’. You’re obsessed with Jose.

 

[Makingtrax]

How much did Mourinho spend with Porto to win the CL at a time when Wenger had the best team in Europe?

Wenger’s failure to win the CL with the Invincibles is ample proof that he did not have the ability to win trophies like Mourinho. You can disagree if you chose to, but I really don’t see Wenger winning as triple with the 2009-10 Inter side. Tactically he wasn’t at the level of Mourinho and would have lost to Barcelona playing attractive football instead of producing an ugly but effective performance like Mourinho did.

Finally, as I said, it is absurd to justify Mourinho’s clearly superior h2h record against Wenger simply down to his bigger purse. Yes that was a factor, but the other factor was that he was also a superior tactician.

You are right that Wenger is a better manager on several fronts, but the opposite is also true. I think that at this moment, the club needs those metrics (the ones where Mourinho is better) more in order to compete.

Mourinho had a strong squad at Porto and was given £10m in his first season and then another £10m in his second, which was a lot of money in those days.

The difference then was that Mourinho kept moving from rich club to rich club. Wenger could have done the same but chose to stay at a much poorer club through loyalty.

You need to see this. Wenger's record in Europe and his 3 EPL titles and 7 FA Cups are exceptional when you consider it. Look at the clubs Mourinho was at, Chelsea, Inter, Real, United.

 

[Malky]

Has he done that before? Division amongst squad members?

Pretty sure he has a big falling out with Casillas at Madrid, which lead to him having issues with the Spanish players who were close to Iker - like Ramos.

 

[Manberg]

From 2013 until Wenger’s last season, we had a much bigger net spend than Chelsea.
It’s a myth that Wenger didn’t spend money. We didn’t spend from the stadium move until about 2013, but a lot was spent (relatively speaking) before that and after that.