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Life after Wenger | Ornstein: Arsenal set to appoint Unai Emery

Do you think Emery will get the club back on an upwards trajectory?


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Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
Guardiola managed Barcelona in his first job as a manager. Look how successful he turned out.

I feel like he's the exception from the rule. Concerning his step up from Barcelona B to A, he's had it relatively easy. He is a great tactician and pretty creative. But I know he made some bold decisions but other coaches have promoted youth players and got rid of ageing/underperforming stars, too. He's had the massive advantage of not only being a great managerial talent, but to have the world's best squad at his disposal which a) was able to mostly realize his ideas and b) allowed him through sheer quality to adapt, learn and make mistakes without instantly dropping down the table. The success at Barcelona put him straight into the top bracket of managers.
So there's a seldom combination of a great talent as manager and a squad that allows him to learn and grow while still performing.
Same goes for Zidane, although I find it hard to judge him. He's clearly left his mark on football with the back to back CL wins, but although I like Zidane and dislike Guardiola, I have to admit there's not the same level of tactical acumen and creativity to be seen with him, as with the Catalan, and I'm eager to see what happens if Zidane has to go at Madrid.

These two are the only managers who went straight from a B team to the first team and instantly had great, critical success - and what really is the common denominator here is that both had the world's best teams at their disposal.


Under this special circumstance, how do we evaluate what's squad and what's manager? Upon that evalution, can we infer that someone like Arteta or any other B to A team manager will have the same success or chances at success at any given team?
Concerning the question of being able to manage a big club, how do we relate other new managers work in comparison to Guardiola and Zidane? Has Nagelsmann not won the CL last year because he's worse than these two or because he's not coaching Real or Barca? Would Guardiola have won the CL with Hoffenheim?

What I'm kinda trying to say is...Zidane and especially Guardiola shouldn't be taken as examples when infering from their success to other rookie manager's possible abilities, because all factors in their special cases considered, they're still exceptional managers, but their straight success stories are anomalies which shouldn't be taken into account.
 

bingobob

A-M’s Resident Hunskelper
Trusted ⭐

Country: Scotland
For 1 year.

I think that can be offset by his experience this season at City. He also knows our team well.
No it can't. Pep got Barcelona B promoted. Arteta is working in the background under a top manager.

When Wenger leaves I worry about people's expectations. If Carlo Ancelotti is interested it's hard to see another manager of his proven pedigree out there. The top managers are all in jobs. And then you're looking at the next rung of managers.

But Ancelotti has the stand out Cv. Three Champion League medals, league wins in Italy, France, Germany and England. He has a proven pedigree that I feel we can't turn down.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
A lot of people seem to only look at CVs and trophies for the next manager, especially the ones mentioning Ancelotti.
I'm not saying he's tactically inept or anything, but...
When the Bayern revolt against him started and in the immediate aftermath of his sacking, there were a lot of comments by players regarding his manegement style. I remember Hummels, Boateng, Robben and Ribery, but there were more. Basically, they were saying that he's laid back, taking on a buddy or fatherly role, focused on players expressing themselves, and rather lax in his tactical setups and coaching. The last thing was something they all mentioned no one in the squad could really process after having been trained by Pep, whose very intricate about small, tactical details.

Now everyone here is on about Wenger being tactically naive and not up to the modern game. Again, I'm not saying that Ancelotti is a tactical donkey, but from what I've heard about him, he's not exactly the modern, tactical mastermind a lot of people want at Arsenal. And with the lack of modern, systemic tactical coaching, which Wenger already does, I don't think Ancelotti, who apparently has a similar approach, would be the right choice to drill Arsenal into the modern age, so to speak.

Next thing is, regarding Arteta, not every good co is or becomes a good manager himself. Zeljko Buvac, Klopp's co-coach since Mainz 05, has been highlighted as the tactical and strategic mastermind behind Klopp multiple times. And though, he's still his co and not a coach on his own. This is not meant to strip the guy of ambition, but to highlight that in coaching there are multiple, diverse roles and that some people fit one, and some people the other. Remember Paul Clement, who started out with the laurels of being Ancelotti's trusted co for years? How did he fare?
 

Zaza

Active Member
Guardiola managed Barcelona in his first job as a manager. Look how successful he turned out.
Arteta is of similar ilk. Smart Spanish footballer with bags of EPL experience as a bonus.
Guardiola was unbelievable with barca b.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
Guardiola was unbelievable with barca b.

Out of sheer curiosity...did anyone really watch third or second or whatever **** spanish division Barca B played in in 2007/8 and can give an honest opinion on what Pep did or is it just all a big retrospect wankfest for him? The admiration for him is just so blown out of context, it's unbelievable. There's so many more great managers to admire, but people choose the catalan fraud 'cause he wears tactlenecks and talks like a 3rd tier Karl Marx mashed with a state of the art capitalist. The **** just managed to create a brand, nothing more. Especially with older football fans...he didn't create anything...he's a copycat with a lot of success...why would you admire him? **** should go and create a proper team, instead of buying success.

And to be honest, I'd rather have a delusional old football romantic who doesn't spend a penny, than a doping, pseudo messianic fraud who's gonna spent 600m just to keep his own myth alive
 
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c00lguy

Active Member
A few problems here, firstly I don't see how you can assume that Arteta will follow a similar trajectory just because he is also Spanish/Catalan background with EPL experience.

Second, Arteta's situation is not the same. There's a difference between being a coach among the staff where you have a portion of responsibility, and being in charge of a team of players. Pep was in charge of Barca B - he was responsible for the team selection, tactics, team talks, motivation, training, recovery etc. It all fell on him. Same thing with Zidane.

And you need to take into account that Guardiola is an extremely gifted coach with innovative ideas, Barcelona obviously identified this potential and decided he was worth the risk. We know nothing about Arteta's ability as a coach, never mind his ability as a manager.

Not just because he's Spanish. I base most of my observations on the fact that he looks intelligent. He has the smart eyes (with gorgeous hair and eyebrows to match), and he played intelligently too.

If he goes and manages a lesser club and does really well, a rich club like City or something would want him and we'd miss the opportunity.
 

SomGooner

Prolific Liker
I think we should go after Vieira. Pep is not going anywhere anytime soon and with all due respect to MLS he’s too good for MLS.

He’d absolutely love managing the Arsenal and as far as I’m concerned he’s more qualified than all our former players.

Personally speaking, I do not want Thierry Henry anywhere near Arsenal ever again.
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
I think we should go after Vieira. Pep is not going anywhere anytime soon and with all due respect to MLS he’s too good for MLS.

He’d absolutely love managing the Arsenal and as far as I’m concerned he’s more qualified than all our former players.

Personally speaking, I do not want Thierry Henry anywhere near Arsenal ever again.
Which incident is it that pissed you off about TH14?
 

YeahBee

Terrible hot takes
Which incident is it that pissed you off about TH14?

yeah why?

because he left?

he was probably done playing for us, injury wise I don't think he could hack being the main guy for us. it was practically said that last 2 years with us he didn't even train for real, just rehab and games. and our issues had already started by that anyway

LaLiga is like a retirementhome for players.

He will automatically have the dressing room because nobody can question him

He got every title you can imagine

he learned from Wenger when he was still revolutionary
When Pep broke thru
 

scytheavatar

Established Member
Not just because he's Spanish. I base most of my observations on the fact that he looks intelligent. He has the smart eyes (with gorgeous hair and eyebrows to match), and he played intelligently too.

If he goes and manages a lesser club and does really well, a rich club like City or something would want him and we'd miss the opportunity.

Dude we have already missed tons of opportunities. We could have gotten Klopp, if our board had vision we could have gotten Pochettino before he joined Sp**s. Heck look at the impact Marcelino García Toral is making at Valencia, a club that almost looked like relegation candidates at one stage last season. There is no shortage of talented managers who could perhaps come in and make the same impact to us that Wenger made when he joined us, and I am sure that plenty would love the idea of taking over us. I am not sure why we need to go for an Arteta who we know absolutely nothing about as a manager, can you tell me what's Arteta footballing philosophy and what he plans to do to fix us in a way Wenger can't?
 

Penn_

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Can see him doing a short stint in La Liga. If Neville and Adams can get jobs there I'm sure Arteta can.
 

SomGooner

Prolific Liker
Which incident is it that pissed you off about TH14?

Everytime he’s on TV he’s spewing tripe about the club and yet has the nerve to call himself a fan.

He’s even tried to invent/create a drama amongst the players when he claimed on bloody tv that our players were not celebrating with Sanchez and Bellerin. WTF
 

SomGooner

Prolific Liker
yeah why?

because he left?

he was probably done playing for us, injury wise I don't think he could hack being the main guy for us. it was practically said that last 2 years with us he didn't even train for real, just rehab and games. and our issues had already started by that anyway


None of the above.
 

field442

Hates Journalists Named James
Trusted ⭐
Not sure I’d want Löw. Been a national team coach for ages now, although going into the unknown is exciting.
 

kraphtous

Raul Stanllehi
Man that would be a dream come true as a German Arsenal supporter, wouldn't surprise me if this was another thing that made Mesut want to stay, the man loves some Mesut and knows how to utilize his skills.

But I'll wait for an actual source before I get needlessöy excited.
 

field442

Hates Journalists Named James
Trusted ⭐
:lol: How many times have we seen this type of post.

Somehow I can't see the board sacking Wenger, he always sees out his contract. But this will definitely be his last.

“Exit strategy” doesn’t necessarily mean sack him. They’ll probably try and ease him out the door by mutual agreement, if he says no then they’ll probably sack him. I imagine nobody wants that scenario.

Also I don’t see why they’d be unwilling to sack him now that he has (by his own standards) failed for two consecutive seasons.
 
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