Life after Wenger: That Time Has Come

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by SA Gunner, Oct 12, 2015.

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If you could choose one of the rumoured candidates, who would it be?

  1. Leonardo Jardim

    26.4%
  2. Joachim Löw

    7.5%
  3. Mikel Arteta

    6.4%
  4. Thierry Henry/Patrick Vieira

    4.2%
  5. Brendan Rodgers

    4.2%
  6. Carlo Ancelotti

    7.9%
  7. Massimiliano Allegri

    35.8%
  8. Julian Nagelsmann

    1.9%
  9. Lucien Favre

    3.0%
  10. Luis Enrique

    2.6%
  1. Token Yank

    Token Yank Well-Known Member

    It’s as simple as this, when Santi was in the team we were good, always near the top of the table. When Santi went down injured we became crap.
     
  2. Slartibartfast

    Slartibartfast Well-Known Member

    So your argument is to cherry pick one game? And what do Theo Walcott, Podolski and Gervinho have to do with the talent across the back line? Sure, Arsenal has some better players up front today, but that's completely immaterial since we're talking about the defense. In that same year, Arsenal's back line consisted of a Per Mertesacker who was at the top of his game, a younger and healthier Koscielny, Vermaelen and Bacary Sagna when he was still arguably the best right back in the Premier League. Plus they had a young and hungry Gibbs and a younger Monreal. I'll take that over what's out there right now all day long. And they had guys like Arteta who were willing to do the defensive work in midfield.

    I don't think Bould is coaching the defense any differently than he did then. They just had better players. As for all the rest of the stuff, it's nice you could vent, but most has little or nothing to do with Arsenal's current defensive problems. I mean, what does Sanogo have to do with it? Plus, you're contradicting yourself. On one hand you're claiming there are better players out there now, then on the other you complain about not being able to bring in players who are good enough. Well which is it?
     
  3. Cazorlinho

    Cazorlinho French media expert who still can't embed tweets

    I don't agree with you mate.
    Lacazette & Aubameyang have goal scoring records Giroud can only dream of.
    Even in terms of ability Lacazette is a much more complete player than Giroud is.
    Aubameyang had one of the best scoring record in Europe for years.
    Giroud have never been anywhere close to that level.

    Walcott has always been a very limited player while being one of our top owners. Mkhitaryan is a much much better footballer. And tbf Walcott was crap too this year in this current environnement.

    And let's be honest for a minute. Denilson Gibbs and Jenkinson have always been very mediocre players. Especially Gibbs & Jenkinson were so much overhyped with all this British Core thing.
    Bellerin was performing at a level these previous 2 never did in their career.

    Denilson wouldn't be better than Elneny atm. They're pretty much at the same level.
     
    Token Yank and Justin1986 like this.
  4. Cazorlinho

    Cazorlinho French media expert who still can't embed tweets

    Because defense is not only about a DM and a back 4. It's about team efforts all across the pitch, tracking back, pressing the opponent to not let your defence exposed.

    You're missing my point though.
    I don't think Mertesacker Vermaelen and Sagna are that much better than our current options.
    You're comparing a team that has worked very well and Wenger has almost overachieved with his squad back then vs a team that hasn't been working anymore for a year except the final League/FA Cup games last year.
    Vermalen had already became mediocre and too much injury prone during that time. I don't think he's that much a better option than a Holding full of confidence (which isn't the case anymore, and that's the issue).
    Sagna was really poor at crossing and his offensive contribution wasn't that good. Even though he was very solid in defense. Bellerin was a much better player going forward when he first broke into the team. But weaker in defense I agree. But this is an area where you can easily improve with good coaching and experience IMO.
    Per was a solid player with huge flaws. I have a lot of respect for him. And I think he was a better defender than Mustafi obviously.
    But Shkodran had a very promising start with us and I really think he can do much much better than he's showing right now.
    We were all excited by the Koscielny Mustafi partnership before the German's injury. They had a good record together. I'm not saying he was world class but he had a promising start.
    When Arteta was our DM a lot of fans wanted Arsenal to buy another traditional DM because they thought Arteta wasn't enough (especially after we got destroyed at Anfield, Etihad, Milan). He wasn't the greatest at pure defensive duties tbf but he had other qualities.
    Monreal is a much better player right now than he was when we first signed him. He's one of the few who has improved under Wenger during the last few years.

    I'm pretty sure if they played in the current context and toxic atmosphere they won't do much better than our current players.
    Even our last signings Lacazette Aubameyang Kolasinac, who all looked great in very good/solide teams are currently all underperforming.

    Our current players have already shown they can defend much much better than they're doing right now. They've even won the FA Cup last year against very good teams.

    Defense is not about talent only. It's also about work ethic. Focus, Discipline, Team efforts, tactics. Partnerships. Confidence. All those areas where we've gone backwards and I tried to explain why we have in my previous post.
    How many times we've heard from our players the "they wanted it more than us" BS?

    About the last part even though I think we have a much more talented team than we had after Cesc has left us, we fell behind at buying/spotting the best young talents in Europe, especially from France. The players who are going to be/became world class. When was the last time Wenger has brought in a young player as exciting as Cesc? RVP? Diaby? Anelka? Or even those under the radar bargains players we used to buy like Monreal, Cazorla, Rosicky, Hleb, Koscielny, Giroud? We're wasting our ressources with players like Welbeck, Perez, Gabriel
     
    El Granit-Coq likes this.
  5. American_Gooner

    American_Gooner Not actually American. Unless Di Marzio says so. Moderator

    I don't think you've actually seen someone with dementia if you think Wenger is suffering from it.
     
  6. sil007

    sil007 Member

    I am free to have my opinion , since its a forum to exchange idea.

    Seriously , you dont understand the word possibility ? :lol:

    And BTW my friend grandpa have one. Mild , but still dementia

    Common symptoms of mild dementia include:

    - personality changes, such as becoming more withdrawn and loner ( wenger atm)
    - difficulty with problem-solving and complex tasks. ( wenger atm )

    Clear ? :lol:
     
  7. Jasard

    Jasard #PlayAMNInMidfield

    Clear or not it's a wee bit crass.
     
    dashsnow17 and freeglennhelder2 like this.
  8. sil007

    sil007 Member

  9. Slartibartfast

    Slartibartfast Well-Known Member

    So now you agree with me that it's not just a matter of the wrong defensive tactics? Focus. Discipline. Team effort. Partnership. Confidence. That's my argument. These players don't have those things in the same way that past teams did. That's it in a nutshell. Glad you came over to my way of thinking. :cool:

    Scroll back up and take a look at the tweets with Lee Dixon's comments -- especially the stuff about Bellerin and recruitment. That's basically the same argument I've been trying to make. Bellerin doesn't know what he's doing (refer back to my City comments) and the players just aren't as good as the old ones.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
  10. Cazorlinho

    Cazorlinho French media expert who still can't embed tweets

    I think those are the kind of things the coach and his staff have failed to develop with this squad especially when they've been there for so long.

    I tried to explain why in my previous posts: players being in their comfort zone, lack of competition for players like Xhaka/Cech/Mustafi/Bellerin, Wenger being too patient with players that are not worth it, we've lost our winning culture/ambition from top to bottom and it has influenced the team.
    Ofc there are born leaders like Vieira and Adams. But I also think you can develop some of it with time, good influence, and a healthy environement.

    Idk when it has gone all wrong within the club because we were great at developping players. Players that have mostly failed anywhere else they've played (Hleb, Song, Adebayor, Flamini, Nasri).
    But now it's the complete opposite. We're getting players that have a great record in their previous club and they're nowhere near as good.
    We used to compete with the top 4 by spending £15/20M every year while we were selling our best players.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
    RacingPhoton likes this.
  11. Lenny Baryea

    Lenny Baryea New Member

    Watching the PSG vs Real game on BT Sport and the commentator just said that Unai Emery is likely gone if PSG don't make at least the Semi Finals.

    Surely he'd be a contender *IF* Wenger were to depart in the summer? What do people think of the former Valencia and Sevilla boss?

    Perhaps a swap, with Wenger going to Paris?!
     
  12. Token Yank

    Token Yank Well-Known Member

    I don’t know much about him, but that PSG team might be the most talented in the world and he hasn’t achieved much with them, all things considered. I am on the Jardim train. He has a fantastic record everywhere he has gone, usually with lesser rated teams and youth. I.e. he punches above his weight. His Monaco team beat us in the CL, then sold their best players, rebuilt again, won the league and made the CL semi while playing sexy football, sold their best players and are now 2nd. That is impressive.
     
  13. Sapient Hawk

    Sapient Hawk Part Time Optimist



    2019 it is. The old boy's going down fighting. :lol:
     
  14. Rimaal

    Rimaal Questionable Taste

    They had better sack the senile granny.
     
  15. celestis

    celestis Arsenal-Mania Veteran Moderator

    Yet Tony was 90 percent the coach , and Wenger never interefered , so which it it ?
     
    El Duderino likes this.
  16. Sapient Hawk

    Sapient Hawk Part Time Optimist

    Who? Our impotent board? Doubt they've the requisite brain cells to come up with an actual decision that would be of benefit to the club.

    I actually thought he wouldn't survive the Brighton result, lets be honest, any embattled manager who's delivered as similar a terrible run of results wouldn't as well, but at Arsenal, miracles still continue to happen :lol:
     
    Rimaal likes this.
  17. American_Gooner

    American_Gooner Not actually American. Unless Di Marzio says so. Moderator


    Löw to Arsenal gaining momentum, devastated about this
     
  18. mavelous

    mavelous Well-Known Member Trusted

    How about Low as manager and arteta as assistant
     
  19. hydrofluoric acid

    hydrofluoric acid Unsinkable !

    Thinking about it, after Özil signed the contract it does make a lot of sense doesn't it?
     
    American_Gooner likes this.
  20. Jae

    Jae Well-Known Member

    But why swap being assistant at City, working under a man who is quite possibly the greatest manager in modern football for being an assistant at Arsenal under a man who hasn't managed at club level in over a decade?
     

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