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Lisandro Martinez

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drippin

I reject your reality, I substitute my own !!
This is Martinez’s thread. I don’t want to answer something related to united in general as it’s irrelevant in this thread. You have to ask the question in united thread. :lol:
Nah, the question is about how, and who with, do you think United would use Martinez. It's related to this thread.
 

ChefMan21

Well-Known Member
With Saliba coming back, signing a player with Martinez' versatility makes a lot more sense. There are no guarantees with Partey or Tierney's fitness, or any other player for that matter, so getting a little versatility in the side for a season with many more games ahead than last is sensible imo. Doesn't mean you don't sign specialists, but we do need cover, ideally from players who can push the others to perform, which Martinez looks like he could be able to do.
 

BIoodBrother

Well-Known Member
With Saliba coming back, signing a player with Martinez' versatility makes a lot more sense. There are no guarantees with Partey or Tierney's fitness, or any other player for that matter, so getting a little versatility in the side for a season with many more games ahead than last is sensible imo. Doesn't mean you don't sign specialists, but we do need cover, ideally from players who can push the others to perform, which Martinez looks like he could be able to do.
I think thats not worth 40mil either.
Its the capacity to play as a LB in defense and as a CM in attack.
 

UnitedBeard

An annoying Manc
3 is worse
missing smth is not bad
Adding is surreal and too much responsibility like a failed try from evolution.
1 could have happened in a accident or in a bet. I bet you one nipple that we'll make CL next season
Very good point. Never thought about it. You are genius.
 

UnitedBeard

An annoying Manc
Shaw/Malacia-Martinez/Maguire-Varane/Lindelöf-Dalot/AWB next season?
To understand why ten Hag wants Martinez or new centre back is you need to understand how ten Hag plays (which is why I said this is more relevant to United thread). I will try to make this more relevant to Martinez as near as possible.

People shouldn't be counting the quantity centre backs we have, but instead, you should look at how many centre backs or defenders can meet his criteria to play his system because build up play from the back and controlling the midfield are crucial for ten Hag's system.

From what I watched and all the stuffs I read and watched, in all ten Hag's Ajax teams, he always expect his CBs to be comfortable with the ball and can regularly make progressive passes because he wants regularly establish dominance in build-up. Our defenders had this problem last season and previous seasons, thus, ten Hag wants a new centre back that is comfortable with the ball and can regularly make progressive. On contrary to his forwards, I believe ten Hag is more flexible with his forwards because he has shown that he can play with false 9 and traditional no 9.

This is why before the summer window started, I always see United to sort out the midfield first, and then sign centre back and left back because Telles is not good in progressing the ball while Shaw is injury prone or has fitness issue. The forwards imo is the last thing I would look at.

With Martinez (if we sign him), we will have centre back that is comfortable with the ball and can regularly make progressive. Not only that, he's a left footed one because we don't have left foot CB, having left footed or someone who is comfortable using their left foot provides lot of benefits to help the team in build up play. Having one will allow an improvement, more fluid, quicker and able to find the right man with better accuracy as if you are on the wrong side, the angle is against you and you are forced to pass out, in line, with their weaker foot.
 

drippin

I reject your reality, I substitute my own !!
From what I watched and all the stuffs I read and watched, in all ten Hag's Ajax teams, he always expect his CBs to be comfortable with the ball and can regularly make progressive passes because he wants regularly establish dominance in build-up. Our defenders had this problem last season and previous seasons, thus, ten Hag wants a new centre back that is comfortable with the ball and can regularly make progressive. On contrary to his forwards, I believe ten Hag is more flexible with his forwards because he has shown that he can play with false 9 and traditional no 9.

With Martinez (if we sign him), we will have centre back that is comfortable with the ball and can regularly make progressive. Not only that, he's a left footed one because we don't have left foot CB, having left footed or someone who is comfortable using their left foot provides lot of benefits to help the team in build up play. Having one will allow an improvement, more fluid, quicker and able to find the right man with better accuracy as if you are on the wrong side, the angle is against you and you are forced to pass out, in line, with their weaker foot.
Nice answer!

The first highlighted point above is reflected in how Arteta has defenders like White, Tomiyasu, Gabriel, Saliba and tries to get Martinez.

The second highlighted point above is a good one, and we have been rumoured to find a LCB because left-footed backup Mari will be gone, Saliba replaces Holding, so we have been targeting a LCB.
 

UnitedBeard

An annoying Manc
Nice answer!

The first highlighted point above is reflected in how Arteta has defenders like White, Tomiyasu, Gabriel, Saliba and tries to get Martinez.

The second highlighted point above is a good one, and we have been rumoured to find a LCB because left-footed backup Mari will be gone, Saliba replaces Holding, so we have been targeting a LCB.

What you are forgetting is it would be ideal if the player does ''the first highlighted'' in the position where he can do it at best, which is a centre back. Don't you think?

For ''the second highlighted'', you already have one Gabriel so you shouldn't be spending 40m for left-footed backup centre back at this stage. Like what others had mentioned, that money would be better spent somewhere else.
 

BaZZe

Always Blaming Refs
**** me you are tiresome. Why do you support this club if you hate it so much? You think buying players and building a team is easy? This is not football manager and you have no clue what goes on behind the scenes. You and @yorch44 just bich and moan whatever happens.

I'd suggest you come around to the fact that the football landscape has changed and we're not at the top anymore. And unlikely to be in the forseeable future.

Yet, we have a young and (for me at least) quite exciting team that is capable of getting us CL football if things go a bit our way. I'm looking forwad to the season.
Don't waste your breath engaging sincerely with a clown trio member.
 

tcahill

Well-Known Member
What you are forgetting is it would be ideal if the player does ''the first highlighted'' in the position where he can do it at best, which is a centre back. Don't you think?

For ''the second highlighted'', you already have one Gabriel so you shouldn't be spending 40m for left-footed backup centre back at this stage. Like what others had mentioned, that money would be better spent somewhere else.

Ornstein mentioned that we're after him primarily as a LB I believe. As a strong gust of wind injures Tierney nowadays, he'd be coming to us as a first 11 quality player. If Gabriel is out and Tierney isn't I'm sure he'd fill in there too.

Agree about the midfield though, I'd be much more comfortable chasing this guy if I knew we weren't one injury off a Xhaka/Elneny pivot.

Regarding United, I may be completely wrong, but I thought one of Maguire's strong suits was passing and stepping into midfield?
 

Rasmi

Got 7 accusations last 3 years. Not my fault 🤦‍♂️
To understand why ten Hag wants Martinez or new centre back is you need to understand how ten Hag plays (which is why I said this is more relevant to United thread). I will try to make this more relevant to Martinez as near as possible.

People shouldn't be counting the quantity centre backs we have, but instead, you should look at how many centre backs or defenders can meet his criteria to play his system because build up play from the back and controlling the midfield are crucial for ten Hag's system.

From what I watched and all the stuffs I read and watched, in all ten Hag's Ajax teams, he always expect his CBs to be comfortable with the ball and can regularly make progressive passes because he wants regularly establish dominance in build-up. Our defenders had this problem last season and previous seasons, thus, ten Hag wants a new centre back that is comfortable with the ball and can regularly make progressive. On contrary to his forwards, I believe ten Hag is more flexible with his forwards because he has shown that he can play with false 9 and traditional no 9.

This is why before the summer window started, I always see United to sort out the midfield first, and then sign centre back and left back because Telles is not good in progressing the ball while Shaw is injury prone or has fitness issue. The forwards imo is the last thing I would look at.

With Martinez (if we sign him), we will have centre back that is comfortable with the ball and can regularly make progressive. Not only that, he's a left footed one because we don't have left foot CB, having left footed or someone who is comfortable using their left foot provides lot of benefits to help the team in build up play. Having one will allow an improvement, more fluid, quicker and able to find the right man with better accuracy as if you are on the wrong side, the angle is against you and you are forced to pass out, in line, with their weaker foot.
The best managers in the world are flexible and adapt to their surroundings. If Twn Hag is stuck on his way and can’t change then he is not a top coach and will fail. This isn’t the Dutch league where he can get away with a cb that’s 5’9 and another that’s 5’10 and hardly concede. He can’t dictate what the opposition is gonna do. This is a very physical league where a lot of if needed can play big. And trust me the moment they see a 5’9 they will target him
 

yorch44

Established Member
Ornstein mentioned that we're after him primarily as a LB I believe. As a strong gust of wind injures Tierney nowadays, he'd be coming to us as a first 11 quality player. If Gabriel is out and Tierney isn't I'm sure he'd fill in there too.

Agree about the midfield though, I'd be much more comfortable chasing this guy if I knew we weren't one injury off a Xhaka/Elneny pivot.

Regarding United, I may be completely wrong, but I thought one of Maguire's strong suits was passing and stepping into midfield?
Maguire is mentally finished... He is making that kind of error only a player with 0 confidence would do.
 

UnitedBeard

An annoying Manc
The best managers in the world are flexible and adapt to their surroundings. If Twn Hag is stuck on his way and can’t change then he is not a top coach and will fail. This isn’t the Dutch league where he can get away with a cb that’s 5’9 and another that’s 5’10 and hardly concede. He can’t dictate what the opposition is gonna do. This is a very physical league where a lot of if needed can play big. And trust me the moment they see a 5’9 they will target him
:lol: ten Hag is more flexible than what you think. He played Tadic as false 9 in 18/19 but last season he played a more traditional no 9 like Haller. He played his full backs wide in 18/19 but last season he played inverted full backs. He played double pivot without giving his double pivot midfield license to go advanced position to score goals in 18/19 but last season he played more 433 with box to box.

Best managers in modern days should be able to show a clear idea what they want and how they want to play. He has clear idea what he demands in his defenders, which his ‘’minimum criteria’’ but also still allow himself to be flexible for his forwards.
 

UnitedBeard

An annoying Manc
Ornstein mentioned that we're after him primarily as a LB I believe. As a strong gust of wind injures Tierney nowadays, he'd be coming to us as a first 11 quality player. If Gabriel is out and Tierney isn't I'm sure he'd fill in there too.

Agree about the midfield though, I'd be much more comfortable chasing this guy if I knew we weren't one injury off a Xhaka/Elneny pivot.

Regarding United, I may be completely wrong, but I thought one of Maguire's strong suits was passing and stepping into midfield?
But you will be signing him for a position that he might not be ideal to do what he usually does at best in his best position.

May be he wants to pair Martinez with Maguire not Varane but whether it will be Maguire or Varane, one thing i can tell you is that we have problem in build up play from the back for years including last season. In addition to that, Martinez is a left footed centre back, like I mentioned in the post above that having someone who can use his left foot comfortably as LCB will allow an improvement, more fluid, quicker and able to find the right man with better accuracy as if you are on the wrong side, the angle is against you and you are forced to pass out, in line, with their weaker foot.

Maguire and Varane are not comfortable using their left foot at all. I remember Rangnick last season even switched Maguire to RCB few games. So imo if we sign Martinez, it‘s great and necessary addition to the squad on paper as we don’t have left footed CB.
 

RunTheTrap

Nobody laughs on my "jokes" 😫
To understand why ten Hag wants Martinez or new centre back is you need to understand how ten Hag plays (which is why I said this is more relevant to United thread). I will try to make this more relevant to Martinez as near as possible.

People shouldn't be counting the quantity centre backs we have, but instead, you should look at how many centre backs or defenders can meet his criteria to play his system because build up play from the back and controlling the midfield are crucial for ten Hag's system.

From what I watched and all the stuffs I read and watched, in all ten Hag's Ajax teams, he always expect his CBs to be comfortable with the ball and can regularly make progressive passes because he wants regularly establish dominance in build-up. Our defenders had this problem last season and previous seasons, thus, ten Hag wants a new centre back that is comfortable with the ball and can regularly make progressive. On contrary to his forwards, I believe ten Hag is more flexible with his forwards because he has shown that he can play with false 9 and traditional no 9.

This is why before the summer window started, I always see United to sort out the midfield first, and then sign centre back and left back because Telles is not good in progressing the ball while Shaw is injury prone or has fitness issue. The forwards imo is the last thing I would look at.

With Martinez (if we sign him), we will have centre back that is comfortable with the ball and can regularly make progressive. Not only that, he's a left footed one because we don't have left foot CB, having left footed or someone who is comfortable using their left foot provides lot of benefits to help the team in build up play. Having one will allow an improvement, more fluid, quicker and able to find the right man with better accuracy as if you are on the wrong side, the angle is against you and you are forced to pass out, in line, with their weaker foot.
Quick question. Are you concerned that almost all the players you have been linked with have only played in the Dutch league? It’s not what I would consider a top league and there’s been a fair share of flops coming from there.
 

UnitedBeard

An annoying Manc
Quick question. Are you concerned that almost all the players you have been linked with have only played in the Dutch league? It’s not what I would consider a top league and there’s been a fair share of flops coming from there.
Not at all right now because I want us to sign players that suit the manager’s system. As long as those players whether it’s Dutch league or even lower can play in his system then I have no concern with it because I’m sick and tired of watching us signing players but not able to start because they don’t suit the way how the manager wants to play.

Lot of people mentioned that ten Hag has clear idea how he wants to play so I‘m putting fully faith in the players he is targeting because when a manager has clear idea of how he wants to play, he should also have clear idea of the type players he wants (that’s why Klopp is rarely signing the wrong players because he knows what he wants from his players). So far, he’s targeting positions that I was expecting him to sign.

And also this is still transition to new manager, the scouts will need time to adapt to new manager’s criteria. Klopp did the same thing in his first summer signings that he signed 4 bundesliga players and 2 were PL only.
 
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