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Lisandro Martinez

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field442

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What are they basing this on? Inverted full back from 830 minutes of footage mainly from 2019? Has the bold Arteta seen something that ETH and every other coach and manager this lad has had missed? Pull the other one.

If Gabriel goes it makes sense. But it makes no sense to sign an out and out centre back who has temporarily filled in at full back to be either our first choice left back or backup to an injury prone Tierney. And it makes no sense to spend near 40m on a 2nd choice left sided centre back. It makes sense if he is first choice - but then you get into the house of cards of our over expenditure on defence and our limp attack.

For me nothing about this makes sense.

Based on his passing? Statistically he ranks as one of the best passing CBs in Europe, so using him at LB and then being an extra man in midfield in possession is hardly reinventing the wheel. No more groundbreaking than someone like Kyle Walker going from an up and down fullback to being an inverted fullback for City.
 

bingobob

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Because ETH doesn't use a system with inverted FBs? Because Lisandro is a midfielder turned CB who fits ETH's high line and building from the back? Because inverted FB means quasi-midfielder in attack and a defensive FB in defense, and this fits what Lisandro does?
When and where was he a defensive midfielder turned centre back?

Like ive literally his stats up in front of me. In Argentina he played as a centre back. U17 championship, centre back. 17/18 and 18/19 season 42 starts all at centre back. Moved to Ajax, starts as a centre back, moves into midfield plays 22 games in midfield and then moves back into centre back. The centre midfield, much like his left back role, is a blip not the norm.

Anyway im done on this - ill not be changing my mind.
 

bingobob

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Based on his passing? Statistically he ranks as one of the best passing CBs in Europe, so using him at LB and then being an extra man in midfield in possession is hardly reinventing the wheel. No more groundbreaking than someone like Kyle Walker going from an up and down fullback to being an inverted fullback for City.
Only Kyle Walker is a full back. This guy is a centre back who has played left back. We are looking to buy someone who has played less than 10 full matches at left back to be our left back. What could possibly go wrong :lol:

Anyway this time im definitely out. Going in circles.
 

2Smokeyy

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I wouldn’t really be losing any sleep if he’s a Gabriel replacement as he wasn’t really anything special last season.
 

drippin

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Only Kyle Walker is a full back. This guy is a centre back who has played left back. We are looking to buy someone who has played less than 10 full matches at left back to be our left back. What could possibly go wrong :lol:

Anyway this time im definitely out. Going in circles.
In 19/20 he played 22 games as a DMF and 19 games as CB in all competitions for Ajax.

Inverted fullback tucks in at the attacking phase, so he won't run up and down the flank like normal fullback.

Walker becoming an inverted fullback was a bit surprising as he doesn't seem to have all those qualities needed, like great passing. But he is a level above Tierney, and has shown how talented player he is, being able to do it well.

You just don't get that inverted LB is something different than a normal LB, so it's of no use to talk about it more than this. Did you even watch the video? It's like 3 minutes.
 

field442

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Only Kyle Walker is a full back. This guy is a centre back who has played left back. We are looking to buy someone who has played less than 10 full matches at left back to be our left back. What could possibly go wrong :lol:

Anyway this time im definitely out. Going in circles.

Yeah we’re not getting anywhere because you seem to have tunnel vision on what a fullback should be. He’d be shifting 20 yards to the left and doing exactly what he does at Ajax, just defending in a different area of the pitch. Someone like David Alaba has moved from midfield, to LB to CB and done the inverted full back thing. Daley Blind has done the same. I’m not sure why this is seen as a disaster waiting to happen. It’s part of the modern game.
 

Kobi

I Know Who You Are
Well Arteta naturally knows more about inverted fullback tactics and requirements than either of us. Guardiola is credited for the invention of that system.

A CB in Ten Hag tactics is high up the pitch, fast enough and good at passing/creating/technique. An inverted LB in Arteta's tactics likely needs the same qualities.

I'm not sure if you understand inverted fullback tactics?

Who is crediting Guardiola with the “invention of that system“ ?

Ajax did it with Ruud Krol in the 70s, LB to LCM to create a 343 diamond in possession.
You can find videos of Cruyff talking about it on YouTube.
All of ‘Guardiola‘s ideas‘ originate from Cruyff, minus the doping and blood money.
 

drippin

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Country: Finland
Who is crediting Guardiola with the “invention of that system“ ?

Ajax did it with Ruud Krol in the 70s, LB to LCM to create a 343 diamond in possession.
You can find videos of Cruyff talking about it on YouTube.
All of ‘Guardiola‘s ideas‘ originate from Cruyff, minus the doping and blood money.
This is the video where it was said, and the tactic explained, not long video. Thought something like you say, but don't care that much.


This is the post about it where I shared the video.

 

MrAjax

Member
Most of us aren't questioning his ability, we are questioning where his role would be in this team and if the funds should be used elsewhere.
Just kidding.... Guess fans from ALL football clubs will be at least biased and deluded in some cases. And if I would be an Arsenal fan I'd ask myself the same question. I think United has much more gaps to fill on the pitch compared to Arsenal, so for them it definitely seems a more logic option as Martinez is versatile and multifunctional.
But, as I am biased too, I don't think he's too expensive. I am not going to say he's world class but he's an extremely useful player: both technically and tactically skilled, a lot of 'grinta' and fysically much stronger than most of you think. Apart from that he's an Argentinian international (the upcoming WC might increase his market value) with still a three year contract. I'd say he's a bargain, particularly when you see what is being paid for the Maguires of this world.
I'd hate to see Martinez leave Ajax but I guess either Arsenal or United will eventually pay up.
I know the PL is a different beast, not to compare with the Eredivisie, but I'm confident he'll scare off these PL strikers more than vice versa. There's a reason we call him the Butcher.
Anyway, let's wait and see.... If he'd join Arsenal I wish you all the best and good luck with him.
 

drippin

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Country: Finland
Just kidding.... Guess fans from ALL football clubs will be at least biased and deluded in some cases. And if I would be an Arsenal fan I'd ask myself the same question. I think United has much more gaps to fill on the pitch compared to Arsenal, so for them it definitely seems a more logic option as Martinez is versatile and multifunctional.
But, as I am biased too, I don't think he's too expensive. I am not going to say he's world class but he's an extremely useful player: both technically and tactically skilled, a lot of 'grinta' and fysically much stronger than most of you think. Apart from that he's an Argentinian international (the upcoming WC might increase his market value) with still a three year contract. I'd say he's a bargain, particularly when you see what is being paid for the Maguires of this world.
I'd hate to see Martinez leave Ajax but I guess either Arsenal or United will eventually pay up.
I know the PL is a different beast, not to compare with the Eredivisie, but I'm confident he'll scare off these PL strikers more than vice versa. There's a reason we call him the Butcher.
Anyway, let's wait and see.... If he'd join Arsenal I wish you all the best and good luck with him.
Do you think he would fit inverted LB role in EPL?

Or do you think he could be a starting LCB in a back four in EPL?
 

Bloodbather

Established Member

Country: Turkey
Anyway this time im definitely out. Going in circles.
Only because you keep repeating the same points without addressing the counter arguments. Going on and on about a rigid definition of LB and how this player didn't play there, even though the position is completely different in the two systems in question.
 

MrAjax

Member
Do you think he would fit inverted LB role in EPL?

Or do you think he could be a starting LCB in a back four in EPL?
Both, absolutely! He can easily play midfield too, when necessary.I guess Arteta basically has the same reasons to go after Martinez as Ten Hag has. They both want 'glue' for their team, that is: a tactical smart player with a great cross pass, who's comfortable on the ball, rarely makes mistakes and who will basically deliver, no matter where you put him on the pitch. This type of player is rare in football and that's why Ajax wants him to stay, and in case he doesn't, at least earn some money. We have ambitions too, you know ;)
 

Mrs Bergkamp

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I was really eager to sign this guy but I've gone right off the idea. There seem to be too many reasons not to. My priority is to get a Partey backup/alternative. That's a hole we've no hope of plugging internally.
 

kofigunner

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Tune in next time to find out. Same Arse-Time, same Arse-Forum
Batman Facepalm GIF by WE tv
 
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