Lucas Torreira: 2019/20 Performances

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Kysus

Well-Known Member
Rewatch some of him last season. His skillset is far more than just a midfield destroyer. If he couldn't play with the ball Emery wouldn't be trying to play him so far forward.

You have this backwards, he plays further forward because he does not have the ability to pass it out from the back.
It is so claringly obvious how limited his passing is
 

Toby Andrl

Part Time Stuttgart Fan
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Torreira just is not and never will be good enough with the ball for a team trying to get into the top4.
His sideway passing makes Elneny look like Özil ffs
Rewatch some of him last season. His skillset is far more than just a midfield destroyer. If he couldn't play with the ball Emery wouldn't be trying to play him so far forward.
Or a lot of players could improve.

Torreira isn't a standout passer, but he's surely not limited.

And there's an interesting comparable case at Stuttgart right now:

Tim Walter has pushed Santi Ascacibar - a seriously limited ballwinner and bad passer - from 6 to 8 for very similar reasons Sarri pushed up Kanté and Emery pushed up Torreira. First few games it looked horrible, there were even reports of a fallout between manager + club hierarchy and Ascacibar because the player felt he was used in the wrong position. Apparently they talked it out, and Ascacibar has accepted his tactical role and behold: Last few games his use of space, first touch, ball processing, vertical and short passing have improved significantly. Players can develop certain skill sets down the line if they are open to it and a manager able to train them properly.
 

MikeVinna

Well-Known Member
Just play him in front of the defense. It’s not rocket science. Trying to be clever by playing him further up the field with defensively limited players in the holding positions is ridiculous.. He’s a little pitbull, just let him loose.
 

kraphtous

Raul Stanllehi
Well elneny is a really Good passer, kust not a very courageous one
I‘d say Elneny‘s passing is a little more adventurous than Torreira though not by a lot. I remember a few through balls that led to great chances from him but I can’t remember the last time Torreira even made a defense splitting pass let alone create a chance with nice passing.

I don‘t blame Emery for not rating him, he‘s bang on about Torreira tbh and he was bang on about not rating Elneny too.
 

LG10

Well-Known Member
Torreira has the intelligence to play at an 8 not the physicality. Thats what's costing him, not sure he'll ever able to handle the physicality and pace of the league. Will be a monster at whatever Spanish/Italian club takes him.
 

UpTheGunnerz

Attention Seeker
I‘d say Elneny‘s passing is a little more adventurous than Torreira though not by a lot. I remember a few through balls that led to great chances from him but I can’t remember the last time Torreira even made a defense splitting pass let alone create a chance with nice passing.

I don‘t blame Emery for not rating him, he‘s bang on about Torreira tbh and he was bang on about not rating Elneny too.

Disagree about Torreira there, but each to their own.

I remember Elnenys pass to THAT Özil goal agains Ludogorets but also that one to Welbz in Europa League in Moscow. He really had it in him, shame he didn't utilise those balls more.
 

Big Poppa

Established Member
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Torreira isn't a standout passer, but he's surely not limited.

And there's an interesting comparable case at Stuttgart right now:

Tim Walter has pushed Santi Ascacibar - a seriously limited ballwinner and bad passer - from 6 to 8 for very similar reasons Sarri pushed up Kanté and Emery pushed up Torreira. First few games it looked horrible, there were even reports of a fallout between manager + club hierarchy and Ascacibar because the player felt he was used in the wrong position. Apparently they talked it out, and Ascacibar has accepted his tactical role and behold: Last few games his use of space, first touch, ball processing, vertical and short passing have improved significantly. Players can develop certain skill sets down the line if they are open to it and a manager able to train them properly.

While you’re completely right about this, Torreira at the start of last season, for the first time in years, gave us a bit of tenacity and bite in midfield. Our defence had some much needed protection and he was growing in confidence.

The only reason to push a ball winner that high up the pitch is if you have lazy or physically lightweight forwards, but if you do that, you must replace what you’ve taken away.

Torreira is also a midget. Willock closes players down in 2 strides to his 6. Even then I’d rather have a more technical creative passer at CAM. Not a box to box CM as Emery tries to do.

We can be making progress and then switch it up for no reason. It’s things like that which make his pleas for patience hard to accept.
 

teamsoutheast

Well-Known Member
The utilisation of Torreira has been very interesting. I'm wondering if Emery is thinking, "can we make Torreira a more 'complete' midfielder". We know he's good at breaking up play and tackling but what if we could train him to be more complete, so he can tackle, create, pass, score etc... A bit similar to Verrati who I believe is one of the most complete midfielders in the world. He certainly does seem to have the right attributes for this. Just a matter of seeing if it's possible. Well worth trying to make him more complete as he does have the basic skillset to do so.
 

Toby Andrl

Part Time Stuttgart Fan
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While you’re completely right about this, Torreira at the start of last season, for the first time in years, gave us a bit of tenacity and bite in midfield. Our defence had some much needed protection and he was growing in confidence.

The only reason to push a ball winner that high up the pitch is if you have lazy or physically lightweight forwards, but if you do that, you must replace what you’ve taken away.

Torreira is also a midget. Willock closes players down in 2 strides to his 6. Even then I’d rather have a more technical creative passer at CAM. Not a box to box CM as Emery tries to do.

We can be making progress and then switch it up for no reason. It’s things like that which make his pleas for patience hard to accept.

I think the reason to push the ballwinner high is trying to get quicker and higher up the pitch access to the ball after losing it and stuff like winning second balls. And because you want a different kind of profile at 6, most probably a ball distributor.

And I absolutely agree with that you have to balance it out, still. E.g. Tim Walter mostly puts Karazor, a dlp, at 6, but he's got the advantage of being around 1.9m which evens out Ascacibar being a midget. Optimally in e.g. the case of a high ball, you have Karazor winning the aerial duel and then Ascacibar winning the second ball and processing it. But that 6 still has to do some defensive work and one of the problems at Stuttgart is that Karazor sometimes fails at this still too often. Another option of Walter was to put the physically strong Orel Mangala at 6, who pretty much resembles Willock albeit on a different level of course.

The of course you've got to factor in that Walter uses a diamond or 4321, which allows him to push Ascacibar higher, but he's still just there to win balls high and then process them, not be the creative outlet of the team as he's got one or even two 10s in front of him.

My point still stands that it's not complete bollocks to push a ballwiner higher and that someone like Torreira is surely capeable of adding to his skillset. But I agree that overall the midfield is imbalanced and that right now it doesn't make much sense to push Torreira high.
 

GDeep™

Cute and Clever
The utilisation of Torreira has been very interesting. I'm wondering if Emery is thinking, "can we make Torreira a more 'complete' midfielder". We know he's good at breaking up play and tackling but what if we could train him to be more complete, so he can tackle, create, pass, score etc... A bit similar to Verrati who I believe is one of the most complete midfielders in the world. He certainly does seem to have the right attributes for this. Just a matter of seeing if it's possible. Well worth trying to make him more complete as he does have the basic skillset to do so.

Emery can continue that project when he takes Torreira to Segunda B with him.
 

Riou

Gatekeeper Of Mediocrity
I think the reason to push the ballwinner high is trying to get quicker and higher up the pitch access to the ball after losing it and stuff like winning second balls. And because you want a different kind of profile at 6, most probably a ball distributor.

And I absolutely agree with that you have to balance it out, still. E.g. Tim Walter mostly puts Karazor, a dlp, at 6, but he's got the advantage of being around 1.9m which evens out Ascacibar being a midget. Optimally in e.g. the case of a high ball, you have Karazor winning the aerial duel and then Ascacibar winning the second ball and processing it. But that 6 still has to do some defensive work and one of the problems at Stuttgart is that Karazor sometimes fails at this still too often. Another option of Walter was to put the physically strong Orel Mangala at 6, who pretty much resembles Willock albeit on a different level of course.

The of course you've got to factor in that Walter uses a diamond or 4321, which allows him to push Ascacibar higher, but he's still just there to win balls high and then process them, not be the creative outlet of the team as he's got one or even two 10s in front of him.

My point still stands that it's not complete bollocks to push a ballwiner higher and that someone like Torreira is surely capeable of adding to his skillset. But I agree that overall the midfield is imbalanced and that right now it doesn't make much sense to push Torreira high.

Nothing to do with this, but I just noticed your Stuttgart fan tag line...what was your view on the old Green Goblin himself Alex Hleb, back in the day?
 

Toby Andrl

Part Time Stuttgart Fan
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Nothing to do with this, but I just noticed your Stuttgart fan tag line...what was your view on the old Green Goblin himself Alex Hleb, back in the day?

One of my favourite players ever, got me to follow Arsenal along Rosicky back in the day. Wonderful player. He even did fairly well during his second Stuttgart stint, even though we massively overpaid him.
 

Riou

Gatekeeper Of Mediocrity
One of my favourite players ever, got me to follow Arsenal along Rosicky back in the day. Wonderful player. He even did fairly well during his second Stuttgart stint, even though we massively overpaid him.

He was made to play for Arsène in every way, one of the best dribblers we have ever had, looked impossible to get the ball from him on occasions...remember that interview he gave in 2010 when Birmingham visited the Emirates, and he asked for an Arsenal shirt in the background instead of a Birmingham one :lol:

Side note...Him and Kuranyi were amazing for your boys on Championship Mananger 03-04.
 
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Toby Andrl

Part Time Stuttgart Fan
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He was made to play for Arsène in every way, one of the best dribblers we have ever had, looked impossible to get the ball from him on occasions...remember that interview he gave in 2010 when Birmingham visited the Emirates, and he asked for an Arsenal shirt in the background instead of a Birmingham one :lol:

Side note...Him and Kuranyi were amazing for your boys on Championship Mananger 03-04.

Kevin Kuranyi:lol: Absolute muppet that guy. Centre of many jokes. Did a good job at Stuttgart but tbh a complete muppet with the brains of a child. Lives in Stuttgart again afaik, his brother's got a club there, tries to be the agent of a few Stuttgart youth players and as such there's a few stories known about him. Didn't help him either that when he returned from Russia to Hoffenheim they had a segment on him on regional TV and he revealed himself to basically be under contract there to be the integration and BBQ helper.
 

Toby Andrl

Part Time Stuttgart Fan
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also, it's probably not correct in some way or the other, but I've got a massive impression of him and his trademark lisp and it's so spot on you get a room or table of 30 people to laugh and recognize it. I know you shouldn't make fun of people and their shortcomings, but you can handle a lisp pretty easily and I've had it myself as a very young kid and got rid of it super fast and easy. Don't want to detract him here, but it is just plain ridiculous when you see and hear him on TV talk about how his job is to organize BBQs and grill steaks when he's in fact under contract as a player but always sits in the stands with his trademark childish behaviour and lisp. Should've never left Stuttgart for Schalke. Was a prolific striker nonetheless.
 

Riou

Gatekeeper Of Mediocrity
also, it's probably not correct in some way or the other, but I've got a massive impression of him and his trademark lisp and it's so spot on you get a room or table of 30 people to laugh and recognize it. I know you shouldn't make fun of people and their shortcomings, but you can handle a lisp pretty easily and I've had it myself as a very young kid and got rid of it super fast and easy. Don't want to detract him here, but it is just plain ridiculous when you see and hear him on TV talk about how his job is to organize BBQs and grill steaks when he's in fact under contract as a player but always sits in the stands with his trademark childish behaviour and lisp. Should've never left Stuttgart for Schalke. Was a prolific striker nonetheless.

Won a Bundesliga for me as top scorer, clearly needed my man management, of resetting the game if I lost, for longer in his career ;)
 
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