Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by OnlyOne, Aug 9, 2019.
'Winning headers in midfield'... Is this another weirdo AM fad that's about to explode?
Just getting in there early.
My problem with Torreira is his lack of athleticism and his lack of confidence in passing more so than his height. Some people refer to Kante, Edgar Davies etc but they were all very much athletic DMs, Torreira isn’t really like that.
If Emery wants to persist with a deep and flat two then it’s probably the reason he plays Xhaka and Guendouzi together is because they are probably our two most progressive passers from deep and they have good height on them but we really need to phase out Xhaka so i
I’m hoping Willock can step up from now until January at least. Maybe we have to go back and look for another DM
You guys are trying to make it sound like it’s weird to want a tall DM. Height isn’t everything but it’s definitely a bonus defensively.
Lucas’s issue isn’t necessarily the height, it’s the tiny legs. Unlike Kante like somebody mentioned above, Torreira doesn’t have the athleticism to make up for his smaller steps.
Play the wee man as DM. He’ll be fine. Remember the midget twins Diarra & Makalele!
I do what I can to shift the narrative
Your failure to adress the point is very telling...
It should tell you it's not worth addressing! For me, at least.
That is when he is covering distances in big spaces. He needs to be moving laterally as he is explosive over short distances. Being in front of the back 4 in a 3 allows that. When in a two he is covering his side plus whoever is playing next to him and he is expected to press and get forward while trying to recover.
Torreira is good at keeping the ball moving, Snapping into tackles, tactical fouls, stepping back into the box to cut out cutbacks, stepping out to intercept, knowing when to drop to cut out passing lanes. He is also very good at staying concentrated when we do not have the ball. Playing him the way we are literally takes away all of his strengths.
The height isn't an issue. The ball isn't constantly in the air in midfield. I would rather he can't win the first ball but has a chance of winning the second ball due to his positioning. Rather than winning a header and heading is straight to the opposition because nobody apart from willock can jump on the 2nd ball. In a two man midfield you probably need height. I don't think you need your holding midfielder to be a giant in a 3.
You can do it if you have set up the team properly, or have proper teammates.
Gattusso had Pirlo next to him
Davids was a freak and had Zidane next to him
Kante is a freak, rarely gets injured and Matic next to him.
He will keep getting inured with this tactic. He needs a partner with him who will press for the ball. NOT Guendouzi who cannot stay at one place.
Problem is that Emery is trying to move away from a 2 man midfield...... everyone in the football world has been trying to move away from 4-2-3-1 to 4-3-3. A 2 man midfield is too easy to press with a 3 man midfield. An inverted triangle with one DLP and two players in front of him gives that DLP more options in passing the ball out from the back, and that is the system Emery is trying to move us towards. Of course then we need a proper DLP, not the guy we are using currently. But there's simply no room for some Gliberto to be playing in our current system, which is why Torreira's value to us moving forward is questionable.
He was poor the whole second half of last season, dunno how you can be pleased with that. Özil did way more than him when you were sh*tting on him every chance you got.
People in this thread really trying to compare Torreira to Makelele and Kante who were/are the greatest in their generation at their position.
Yes, Torreira was underwhelming post anfield last season, but in what way was Özil any better?
Nobody is comparing him to the greats of this game but just pointing out you don't need to call it insanity if you play a smaller guy as a DM.
So we agree, you don't need size to be a good defensive midfielder.
You compared them just a page ago. You said if these greatest players ever can be short why is it a problem for Torreira? Well because Torreira isn’t as good as them that’s why. I have no issue with a short midfiedler if they were Kante or Makelele but we know he’s not on that level.
If you saw Kante running, you would conclude that he is on another level as an athlete.
He can get by with being small, but not with being left all alone to deal with 2 guys while Guendouzi faps about.
Never seen him do that on the football field.
Torreira was doing fine even when he was isolated in the first half of last season. What he lacks as an athlete he compensates with anticipation, positioning in space and quick reactions. Besides, you're moving away from the original issue which was his size, now it's his legs and athleticism that's the problem .
There's not a lot of players out there who can deal with two guys on a consistent basis, after all no one is super human.
I compared their height not ability. You were spouting words like insanity and I had to put some perspective to why I don't see a problem with Torreira's height. Let me put it bluntly what I meant so that you won't twist my words again. Height is not a prerequisite for a good defensive midfielder and I believe Torreira has enough ability to make it work despite his size limitations.
Watch Arsenal Live Streams With StreamFootball.tv