Who would be your candidate to replace Arteta?


  • Total voters
    184

Sapient Hawk

Can You Smell What The Hawk Is Cooking?
đŸ˜Č

What are you smoking bruhhhhh? Certain lads be on that spice around here.

Don't you be holding out on me, Troopz!

If you've got spice, I require it immediately.

I need the gift of prescience to see if Arteta's process has come full circle in destroying the club đŸ€Ł
 

AbouCuéllar

Wishes to get banned elsewhere
đŸ˜Č

What are you smoking bruhhhhh? Certain lads be on that spice around here.
Conte's poor PL record is well documented.

As for my comment re: PL, he won the league in a season where he didn't have much real competition for the title (City in transition first year under Guardiola, Tottenham finished 2nd that season...), and the next season finished 5th as the league improved (17-18 is the season, for me, where PL really started to be a top, top league), especially at the top. He's a manager that asks for major investment to achieve his aims, and we are just not going to win going head to head with big investment with the other top clubs, our investment will always pale in comparison to what City, United, and Chelsea can do. Aside from concerns about philosophy (we have a duty to continue the philosophy / image around football that Wenger worked so hard to install at this club, IMO, aside from personal feelings it's also something that really is a business and marketing issue, and that would be very stupid to waste), I really just don't think he's the type of manager to get us punching above our weight and challenging really for top 4.

Aside from that, record in Europe is well-documented and even in EL didn't manage to win it with a far superior side to Sevilla. Winning Serie A with big investment just doesn't mean as much as people think...see how little change there has been now to Inzaghi with Inter, despite losing Lukaku and Achraf. Allegri was also someone people rated in part for this and someone I never wanted at Arsenal, and now opinion on Allegri seems to be lowering...
 

ExtjExhtts

=Ex timo jens Ex Highbury two thousand six
Conte's poor PL record is well documented.

As for my comment re: PL, he won the league in a season where he didn't have much real competition for the title (City in transition first year under Guardiola, Tottenham finished 2nd that season...), and the next season finished 5th as the league improved (17-18 is the season, for me, where PL really started to be a top, top league), especially at the top. He's a manager that asks for major investment to achieve his aims, and we are just not going to win going head to head with big investment with the other top clubs, our investment will always pale in comparison to what City, United, and Chelsea can do. Aside from concerns about philosophy (we have a duty to continue the philosophy / image around football that Wenger worked so hard to install at this club, IMO, aside from personal feelings it's also something that really is a business and marketing issue, and that would be very stupid to waste), I really just don't think he's the type of manager to get us punching above our weight and challenging really for top 4.

Aside from that, record in Europe is well-documented and even in EL didn't manage to win it with a far superior side to Sevilla. Winning Serie A with big investment just doesn't mean as much as people think...see how little change there has been now to Inzaghi with Inter, despite losing Lukaku and Achraf. Allegri was also someone people rated in part for this and someone I never wanted at Arsenal, and now opinion on Allegri seems to be lowering...

You depreciate Conte while you are in love with Arteta. There is no reason to read your posts anymore.
 

Troopz

Established Member
Conte's poor PL record is well documented.

As for my comment re: PL, he won the league in a season where he didn't have much real competition for the title (City in transition first year under Guardiola, Tottenham finished 2nd that season...), and the next season finished 5th as the league improved (17-18 is the season, for me, where PL really started to be a top, top league), especially at the top. He's a manager that asks for major investment to achieve his aims, and we are just not going to win going head to head with big investment with the other top clubs, our investment will always pale in comparison to what City, United, and Chelsea can do. Aside from concerns about philosophy (we have a duty to continue the philosophy / image around football that Wenger worked so hard to install at this club, IMO, aside from personal feelings it's also something that really is a business and marketing issue, and that would be very stupid to waste), I really just don't think he's the type of manager to get us punching above our weight and challenging really for top 4.

Aside from that, record in Europe is well-documented and even in EL didn't manage to win it with a far superior side to Sevilla. Winning Serie A with big investment just doesn't mean as much as people think...see how little change there has been now to Inzaghi with Inter, despite losing Lukaku and Achraf. Allegri was also someone people rated in part for this and someone I never wanted at Arsenal, and now opinion on Allegri seems to be lowering...

I won’t even disrespect it as you put effort into typing that but I disagree with everything you said.

Firstly, Arteta who you seem to rate asked for major investment and kept on crying that he didn’t have his players. Is there a massive difference? I know you’re going to say he’s building for the future etc but the average fans doesn’t care about that, they care about being successful. Look below for yourself đŸ€Ł the likes of Lukaku, Ashley Young, Victor Moses etc had a remontada due to his excellent coaching which is clearly something Arteta lacks.

1632223966780.jpeg

Also, you made a point about competition. All of this stuff about comparing the competition from now to years in the past is real petty and I have had enough of it especially as this is the same stuff that we used to laugh at Liverpool fans for doing. In 15-20 years from now, I doubt anyone will care about who the competition was at that time, all they’ll remember is the major trophies that Conte won.



Did you really just say this “we have a duty to continue the philosophy / image around football that Wenger worked so hard to install at this club, IMO, aside from personal feelings it's also something that really is a business and marketing issue, and that would be very stupid to waste”?

:lol::lol:

Yet you were twerking for Arteta-ball? We’re so far away from this “philosophy” that you mentioned.
 

AmsterdamGunner

Active Member
Conte's poor PL record is well documented.

As for my comment re: PL, he won the league in a season where he didn't have much real competition for the title (City in transition first year under Guardiola, Tottenham finished 2nd that season...), and the next season finished 5th as the league improved (17-18 is the season, for me, where PL really started to be a top, top league), especially at the top. He's a manager that asks for major investment to achieve his aims, and we are just not going to win going head to head with big investment with the other top clubs, our investment will always pale in comparison to what City, United, and Chelsea can do. Aside from concerns about philosophy (we have a duty to continue the philosophy / image around football that Wenger worked so hard to install at this club, IMO, aside from personal feelings it's also something that really is a business and marketing issue, and that would be very stupid to waste), I really just don't think he's the type of manager to get us punching above our weight and challenging really for top 4.

Aside from that, record in Europe is well-documented and even in EL didn't manage to win it with a far superior side to Sevilla. Winning Serie A with big investment just doesn't mean as much as people think...see how little change there has been now to Inzaghi with Inter, despite losing Lukaku and Achraf. Allegri was also someone people rated in part for this and someone I never wanted at Arsenal, and now opinion on Allegri seems to be lowering...

I don’t think you give Conte enough credit for what he can do. He won championships with Juventus, Chelsea and Inter but also won promotion to the serie A with smaller clubs Bari and Sienna. At Juventus he built the foundations on which Allegri won a lot of titles. I agree with you on Allegri, i wasn’t a big fan of him joining. After Conte he was just at the right moment at the right club to win a lot. It shows now if you look at Juventus playing.

And at Inter he built the foundations again for Inzaghi to profit. You make it sound that the Conte had no influence because with Inzaghi they keep winning. I think the other way around, Inzaghi can keep winning because Conte built some strong foundations, as he did at Juventus.

Some inside to the man:




I don’t believe Conte is someone for the long term, he has never been very long at clubs. But he is someone to change a culture and built strong foundations. I think he could work wonders at Arsenal in maybe two or three seasons. If after that a trainer like Arteta would come in for the long term it could really work. Arteta now is too much of a rookie to make the change at the club I believe.
 

Sapient Hawk

Can You Smell What The Hawk Is Cooking?
Conte's poor PL record is well documented.

As for my comment re: PL, he won the league in a season where he didn't have much real competition for the title (City in transition first year under Guardiola, Tottenham finished 2nd that season...), and the next season finished 5th as the league improved (17-18 is the season, for me, where PL really started to be a top, top league), especially at the top. He's a manager that asks for major investment to achieve his aims, and we are just not going to win going head to head with big investment with the other top clubs, our investment will always pale in comparison to what City, United, and Chelsea can do. Aside from concerns about philosophy (we have a duty to continue the philosophy / image around football that Wenger worked so hard to install at this club, IMO, aside from personal feelings it's also something that really is a business and marketing issue, and that would be very stupid to waste), I really just don't think he's the type of manager to get us punching above our weight and challenging really for top 4.

Aside from that, record in Europe is well-documented and even in EL didn't manage to win it with a far superior side to Sevilla. Winning Serie A with big investment just doesn't mean as much as people think...see how little change there has been now to Inzaghi with Inter, despite losing Lukaku and Achraf. Allegri was also someone people rated in part for this and someone I never wanted at Arsenal, and now opinion on Allegri seems to be lowering...

I wish Arteta had as poor a PL record as Conte.

Then, with a title in the cabinet, we could at least ignore his horrible man-management & philosophical Sartre like rantings.
 

AbouCuéllar

Wishes to get banned elsewhere
😭

You’ve got to up your trolling game as it’s very weak bruh. Imagine writing an essay on why Conte has a poor league record lmao.
He was probably one of those people in the theater thinking they were saying "Boourns" :lol:
Children, behave yourselves, I wrote that because as his *CL* record is very well documented, it doesn't need much explanation; I then went on to address my concerns about him in the league. It's pretty obvious it was a typo.
 

Camus

Active Member
Conte's PL record is: Played 76, Won 51, Drew 10, Lost 15. Comes out to a 67% winning ratio. Conceded 71 goals, which works out at less than a goal a game. Scored 147 which works out a basically 2 goals a game.

I don't agree at all with hand waving away his winning the PL but for arguments sake lets say I/we do. So what? We're not going to hire him to ask him to win us the PL, his PL record is leaps and bounds better than Arteta and in it's own right is a great record, which is the most important factor, and on paper is hypothetically good enough achieve the goals we want.

If people are trying to diminish the quality of the PL that season by saying City were in a transition phase since they'd just hired Pep, well Chelsea had also just hired Conte and in fact it was his 1st season managing anywhere outside of Italy. And they'd hired him off the back of a terrible season in which they finished 10th, unlike City who'd finished 4th the season prior. So I don't see how that's a valid argument. Further more, the season that Chelsea won the PL with him they had a net spend of just 21million. That's compared to City who had a net spend of 162million and United who had a net spend of 124million. So he seemed doing just fine in terms of investment and going head to head with other top clubs that outspent him in the past. During his recent time at Inter iirc he’s also had a lower net spend than Arteta.

People act like his a chequebook manager that has fallen out with his past employers because he's demanded too much money but he's been more or less spot on each time. At Juve he wanted Cuadrado signed and wanted Vidal and Pogba locked down long term. Pogba and Vidal were key players for Juve in getting them to the CL final the following season and two season later when they reached their 2nd final they actually did end up signing Cuadrado and also splashing 90million on Higuain. At Chelsea in the proceeding years since he's left we've seen them spend heavily. And whilst it's too soon to judge with Inter I don't think it's unreasonable to be upset when you owner is selling your best players and heavily reigning involvement straight after your 1st league title in over a decade.

The man has utilised the likes of Ashley Young, Victor Moses, Marcos Alonso, Gary Cahill, David Luiz etc... so he's capable of getting levels out of lesser players. But I will happily admit he's signed more than a few expensive duds, particularly at Chelsea. That 2017 summer transfer window Chelsea signed Drinkwater, Morata, Zappacosta and Bakayoko all for big money and they were all terrible deals. The question is how much involved he was in specifically and personally demanding those players because we know that Marina and others also have a say in transfers.

He's a world class, experienced, proven, winning manager. In the past I remember some sections of our fanbase (maybe even me included) were also apprehensive of the likes of Tuchel and Klopp for equally flimsy reasons and look how they've turned out.
 

AbouCuéllar

Wishes to get banned elsewhere
If people are trying to diminish the quality of the PL that season by saying City were in a transition phase since they'd just hired Pep, well Chelsea had also just hired Conte and in fact it was his 1st season managing anywhere outside of Italy. And they'd hired him off the back of a terrible season in which they finished 10th, unlike City who'd finished 4th the season prior. So I don't see how that's a valid argument. Further more, the season that Chelsea won the PL with him they had a net spend of just 21million. That's compared to City who had a net spend of 162million and United who had a net spend of 124million. So he seemed doing just fine in terms of investment and going head to head with other top clubs that outspent him in the past. During his recent time at Inter iirc he’s also had a lower net spend than Arteta.
Yeah, but it's frankly not the same to implement the style that Pep did at City as it is to implement the one Conte did, more reactive counter-attacking styles are easier to implement in the short-term** (we can see this with Tuchel's 5-2-3 / 3-4-3 as well), and didn't represent a big departure from the style of the previous manager. The fact is we saw where his project stood when all the big clubs had their projects firmly in place the next season. He finished 5th (sure, there are other factors in there; he seemed to lose the players at some point in that season--though that is part of managing, too, tbf--and 5th probably doesn't do justice to his managerial quality in that climate).

**this is a fact that is under-discussed wrt regards to managerial discussions and appreciation of Arteta on here, in general. If you have played football at a decent level or been close to coaches and people in the game or are paying attention closely to the sport on a tactical level you know this. There is a reason why Arteta had more success with a more "amarrateguis"--reactive, counter-attacking, getting players behind the ball--style and why he implemented it in the early stages, it's simply easier to get a team with competitive disadvantages in talent level wrt to its opponents to punch above its weight with this sort of style, we see it over and over again across the history of football, from Simeone who has perfected this style with Atléti but has always failed when it has come to trying to take the next step and proposing football without relying on reactive tactics and drawing the opponent out and taking advantage of spaces (same happened with Mourinho), to Rodgers who had success implementing this sort of system with Leicester but again, has never been able to transition into a more positive style with any success. It's one of the reasons, indeed, why Arteta is finding things so difficult in a transition to a style where he is proposing football--he will have quickly realised that if he wants to make this transition making it without quality decision makers with quality and composure on the ball it is simply going to be impossible, and has position by position (first Ødegaard and ESR; now this summer realising that you are not going to have success with this with a Holding and a Bellerín in the lineup, and that from front to back you need this type of player) gone about getting the level up to where it's needed if any success is to be had with this style. It's the reason why Pep and Arteta are actually right when they say City did something that no one had ever done in dominating the league the way they did with that style of football, and what an accomplishment it was; no matter how much money you spend it is a big accomplishment to do this, not even Wenger did it with such an un-renouncable front-foot style, and to do it without a cheat code type player like Messi or Henry to a lesser extent is indeed a sign of a special accomplishment and top tactical level / coaching. It is also the reason why I rate Potter so high, because what he is doing at Brighton is not easy at all (though I have some minor concerns; small sample size, but when I have seen Brighton against us I have not been as impressed as I expected to be and expected them to play more evenly with us, and it is also true that it's not the same to do this at a lower expectation club where people are quick to praise your football and the pressure of losing or drawing doesn't weigh too highly, reminds me a bit of Setién at Las Palmas and Betis and how he found things quite differently at Barça, a manager I recently rated and who it turns out I overrated; that said there are big differences between Setién and Potter, and I think Potter is a better manager / younger and more up to date and flexible, but still, it's a comparison that gives me a bit of hesitation).

were also apprehensive of the likes of Tuchel and Klopp
Not I, and just because you see the comparison doesn't mean I do (I don't). Klopp I won't even get into because people who were doubting his ability are very strange, Tuchel I always rated, it's been clear from the moment he took over Dortmund he's a very tactically adept manager, and not inflexible or limited to one style of play / scheme as Conte is.

He's a world class, experienced, proven, winning manager.
You all repeat this but it doesn't do anything to address the legitimate concerns I raise with him.

The fact his major success as a manager comes in Serie A and in a weak-ish PL still very much in transition. When the stakes / climate has been a bit higher / more difficult, he has struggled, as in his second season and in the CL, where his teams have really struggled. Seeing the lack of success of Serie A managers like Sarri in the PL raises significant concerns for me, simply put it is in an inferior league (with extremely different tactical conditions to the current PL), and it is not like his work with Inter and Juve is comparable to that of Gasperini at Atalanta where he's got a club undeniably pushing above its weight. Those were big money projects with top clubs where he got very nice results out of them in that league.

Combine this with my concerns about style, and you can see why I have my doubts and prefer other options, and think that Conte is overrated on this forum, where people declare him a world class manager with the same certainty that we would say Messi is world class.
Also, you made a point about competition. All of this stuff about comparing the competition from now to years in the past is real petty and I have had enough of it especially as this is the same stuff that we used to laugh at Liverpool fans for doing. In 15-20 years from now, I doubt anyone will care about who the competition was at that time, all they’ll remember is the major trophies that Conte won.
That's all fine and well, but we're having a discussion about tactical level / competition level and it's 100% relevant when we're discussing the achievements / level of a coach. It simply has to be discussed whether you think it sounds like Liverpool fans or not. Anyways, it's more delusional--ie, like Liverpool fans--if you don't acknowledge it (like a certain Wenger cultist), so yeah...I'll just focus on being not delusional. Delusional was the way Arsenal fans talked about Em*ry when we first signed him, for me, that was when our fanbase most reminded me of Liverpool fans.

Did you really just say this “we have a duty to continue the philosophy / image around football that Wenger worked so hard to install at this club, IMO, aside from personal feelings it's also something that really is a business and marketing issue, and that would be very stupid to waste”?
Yes, I did. No one is saying that Arteta's football is pretty on the eye at the moment but the tactical intention is clear, something that wasn't the case with Em*ry nor would be with Conte. It is very clear the type of system Arteta is striving for (not least of all because he's clearly using Guardiola's juego de posición as 99% of his template), and while he may or may not achieve it (I see strides towards achieving it, especially in important recruitments this summer), it is vital that the intention is there. Perhaps this is something that is less important to those of you in England, but when I talk to people in my country or outside of England about Arsenal, our reputation--which Wenger himself built--is clear: we are the one club in England that tries to play 'the right way', that plays like 'Barça.' You can more or less agree with this, and we know that there are definite qualifications to this idea, but that is our reputation that Wenger has built, and yes, I think we absolutely have a duty to try to carry it on (not least of all because it makes economic sense and is quite exploitable on that level, and in this climate against state owned clubs and clubs that will always be bigger than us financially--United--we need to use all the economic weapons at our disposal).

I don’t think you give Conte enough credit for what he can do. He won championships with Juventus, Chelsea and Inter but also won promotion to the serie A with smaller clubs Bari and Sienna. At Juventus he built the foundations on which Allegri won a lot of titles. I agree with you on Allegri, i wasn’t a big fan of him joining. After Conte he was just at the right moment at the right club to win a lot. It shows now if you look at Juventus playing.

And at Inter he built the foundations again for Inzaghi to profit. You make it sound that the Conte had no influence because with Inzaghi they keep winning. I think the other way around, Inzaghi can keep winning because Conte built some strong foundations, as he did at Juventus.

Some inside to the man:




I don’t believe Conte is someone for the long term, he has never been very long at clubs. But he is someone to change a culture and built strong foundations. I think he could work wonders at Arsenal in maybe two or three seasons. If after that a trainer like Arteta would come in for the long term it could really work. Arteta now is too much of a rookie to make the change at the club I believe.
Let me be clear: when I say I have genuine doubts and concerns about Conte and that I feel he is overrated here, I am not saying he is a bad manager. I was one of the first to say that his appointment to Chelsea was a step in raising the tactical level in the PL. During the 2016 Euros I would've told you he was easily the best manager in the tournament. I rate Conte, but not to the extent that you all do, and don't believe he is the right choice for this club, nor do I agree with the hyperbolic way he is spoken about here. My reasons for that are above. Thank you (and Troopz, to a lesser extent) for replying in a mature fashion with your arguments and thoughts laid out in a reasonable fashion instead of the others who acted like giggly little boys with the obvious typo.
 

Macho

Has Trust Issues With Processes
Trusted ✔

CaseUteinberger

A-M's brilliant, yet humble Xhaka-stan 😍
He’s an actual manager too. Imagine that.
I refuse any manager with either actual management experience or who can speak English! What non-English speaking inexperienced football coaches are around there that we can get our hands on? ;)

It is quite something that we landed where we landed with our last two coaches...
 

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