Manchester City vs Arsenal| Saturday 17th October 17:30| Sky Sports

[celestis]

can't resist butting in, being female myself - I think Wrighty got it right when he called it patronizing rather than intimidating, and rather than being sexual it looked a bit like an unspoken 'come off it dear, what do you know about the rules of football'

so there was a gender element but not punishable, imo, and hopefully the criticism will be a bit of a wake-up call for Aguero and any fellow dinosaurs - of which I'm sure there are many, aren't there, Pep?

Could be Tosker. What I can prove though is he attempted to put his hand around an officials neck

 

[squallman]

It was just weird what Aguero did.

You should treat both men and women the same, but you should never put your hands on a woman (bar maybe grabbing their hands to stop them if they are trying to hit you or something) not that Aguero hit her or anything, but it was just weird as I say...don't know what he was trying to do.

Pep's defence of him though...

"Sergio is the nicest guy in the world, focus on other situations"

...Pep is such a dodgy gimp

How do you reconcile these two thoughts? It's implying to me that while you can never put your hands on a woman, you could put your hands on a man. If you should treat men and women the same, you should never put your hands on a man either.

If I'm reading your post wrong, apologies.

 

[Riou]

How do you reconcile these two thoughts? It's implying to me that while you can never put your hands on a woman, you could put your hands on a man. If you should treat men and women the same, you should never put your hands on a man either.

If I'm reading your post wrong, apologies.

There will always be little bits of grey in life, it's up to you how you decide where to use them.

From a professional point of view (jobs and pay) you would want both men and women (or even those of different races/backgrounds) to get the same opportunities and wages...but putting your hands on a woman in an aggressive manner will never feel right to me.

For example if my girlfriend was in a shouting match with another woman, I would probably just leave her too it (or if it got physical try and break it up.)

But if a man calls my girlfriend a *****, I would probably take a swing at the ****, while I would never do that if it was a woman...I assume all men, or at least most would feel this same way.

My main point was everyone should basically be treated the same, but there will always be slight differences with certain people.

 

[Jury]

Pep is a ****ing mad man. Say what you want about him, but how on earth does he come up with something like this? This is why I think people put too much stock in formations and **** like that, ask anyone what formation City play and they'll say 4-3-3 yet look at this and it tells a completely different story.

Even the woke formation community aren’t yet comfortable with introducing the notorious 1-3-2-1-3 formation to the world yet.

 

[Blaziken]

Everton got 13p with Ancelotti at the wheel

 

[squallman]

Pep is a ****ing mad man. Say what you want about him, but how on earth does he come up with something like this? This is why I think people put too much stock in formations and **** like that, ask anyone what formation City play and they'll say 4-3-3 yet look at this and it tells a completely different story.

Are you poking fun at the formation guys or something? Every single heat map for most teams will look similar to this regardless of formation.

The full backs position will be at worst in the center of the pitch, there will always be one player who is the deepest and everyone else clustered together

 

[9jagooner]

They are quite restricted but they are also very limited. Even with the handbrake off Laca gor example isn't going to run faster or become prolific.

Maybe his game is not to run faster. Maybe his game is to show up at the right places at the right time. I don't think many of our players are limited. I just think some of them are being asked to do additional things outside their comfort zone.
Auba for example will score more goals if given a freer role compared to the role he currently plays where he has to defend, provide and score in same game.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

Are you poking fun at the formation guys or something? Every single heat map for most teams will look similar to this regardless of formation.

The full backs position will be at worst in the center of the pitch, there will always be one player who is the deepest and everyone else clustered together

No I'm not making fun of anyone. I'm saying is people saying stuff like "stop playing 3-4-3, play 4-2-3-1 instead" are failing to understand what's going on. We play different system on and off the ball, and we even make slight alterations based on opponent and circumstances. With a manager like Arteta who's entire philosophy is based around positional play, we'll never play rigid formations where Arteta goes 4-2-3-1 or something like that, because what we do on the ball and off the ball will look completely different. And based on opponent things will be different. Also AMN and Saka have different roles tho both seem to be in comeptition for the one spot currently. Similarly Willian had a different role today than what Lacazette/Eddie would have.

Similar with Pep, how many City fans would've said before the game "I know what we should do, we should play 1-3-2-1-3 vs Arsenal. Most would've put out their preferred lineups in either a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 shape. On paper yesterday it was 3-4-3 vs 4-3-3, however in reality it was much more complexed than that because it was a tactical battle involving two managers who both are great believers in JDP.

It's a similar story with Tierney playing as an LCB off the ball, yet playing like an overlapping full-back at times when we've got the ball. I've seen people say we should play Gabriel as the LCB, with Luiz CB and someone else RCB, but then our system would be completely different. Gabriel would not be doing the same role which Tierney is currently doing. And if Tierney is the LWB, then he's not gonna end up like Saka as a high 8 when we've got the ball, at most he'll tuck in but much deeper. Similar to AMN effectively playing as a box-to-box midfielder when we've got the ball but playing as a wing-back without the ball. Playing 3 at the back doesn't necessarily mean we're being defensive or that it should hinder us offensively. City yesterday pretty much played with a back three of Ake-Dias-Walker, and even at times as shown in the heat map with Dias dropping really deep and Rodri slotting in. On paper that's quite defensive, but they've got so much quality in an attack and the ability to keep the ball in positions thanks to having Foden, Sterling and Mahrez in advanced positions that it doesn't end up being defensive because they can keep the ball so well and constantly get into attacking positions. They've also got a ball carrier in Bernardo linking up the defence to the attack. City arguably didn't even play any more "defensive" players than we did, they were just more effective in attack because they were much better at isolating our defensive players and their quality of attack was superior. In a tactical sense also their game-plan worked much better than ours because we couldn't get Auba into any decent positions partly because of our inability to find him in isolated positions and how City set up to stop him. Similar Pepe on the other side, while Willian isn't exactly Messi as a false 9 so wasn't able to have much of an impact in that regard.

But my main issue is people say we should just chuck our current system in the bin and go 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 or whatever are failing to see that we pretty much play those system in possession or at least to some degree and all they're really asking for is that we stop playing 3-4-3 (more 5-4-1) when defending. And I don't really understand why considering it's improved us in some regard defensively as compared to before we switched to the system. Maybe we should evolve in some ways, and I believe we will because we've signed Partey who's a completely different player to anything else we have in midfield. But I think people saying we should just ditch 3-4-3, especially when we've faired reasonably well with it are being incredibly short-sighted. But then again switch formation is always a suggestion after a poor performance/defeat/etc.

 

[9jagooner]

Maybe his game is not to run faster. Maybe his game is to show up at the right places at the right time. I don't think many of our players are limited. I just think some of them are being asked to do additional things outside their comfort zone.
Auba for example will score more goals if given a freer role compared to the role he currently plays where he has to defend, provide and score in same game.

Sometimes when we're defending a corner, I'm like 'head the ball out to Auba!' but then I see Auba in the box defending the corner and we have no-one outside our box trying to counter

 

[Taylor Gang Gunners]

Kyle Walker has Auba’s number and address yesterday. He’s such an asset for the last line of defence, incredible running power.

That said we should’ve had a penalty for his challenge on Gabriel. High foot. Mane got a free kick for Liverpool for something similar, only he went down like he’d been shot.

 

[Jury]

Everton got 13p with Ancelotti at the wheel

It’s the elephant in the room... He’s transformed them. AM told me he had nothing left and was only after one last pay day.

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

Spotted this too. Small detail but it matters. Within minutes of Partey coming on he ate up yards in in midfield.

On the Willian point, yes he can carry the ball but you have to ask yourself whether that outweighs the threat posed by intelligent, quick movement and a player who can actually occupy defenders.

I feel that he needs to be playing through balls to the striker not the other way around

Agree with this and looking at the squad ,Saka is the only one that can do this to a high level. If we put him there,we then have to rejig our left side and probably tweak the whole team. Willian felt a bit like Miki to me yesterday-all the tight ideas but no means if execution. Hope I'm wrong

 

[Preacher]

Shut down our left side and we got nothing left.

 

[2Smokeyy]

Absolutely dreadful.

 

[OSBK]

Im as gutted as anyone else we didnt get something. Saka probably shouldve scored, auba deffo and it was a pen.

But the goal and the leno save aside city didnt bother us. We were not peppered with shots, city didnt batter us. It was a tactical battle and abit of luck our way and we couldve won that.

It wasnt perfect but its a damn sight better than 12 months ago.

 

[The_Playmaker]

Im as gutted as anyone else we didnt get something. Saka probably shouldve scored, auba deffo and it was a pen.

But the goal and the leno save aside city didnt bother us. We were not peppered with shots, city didnt batter us. It was a tactical battle and abit of luck our way and we couldve won that.

It wasnt perfect but its a damn sight better than 12 months ago.

Interesting notion that City didn't bother us. I think it was more of a case that they weren't bothered. Just managed the game and in the second half we offered absolutely no threat.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

Absolutely dreadful.

Thanks Wenger.

 

[Jury]

Thanks Wenger.

Basically

 

[squallman]

Absolutely dreadful.

These stats always feel cherry picked to suit a particular narrative.

Who are the big 6 again?
Why start in January 2015?

It clearly doesn't include cup wins and we've won a few of those.

It also ignores the fact that big team vs big team matches are different than a big team playing a smaller one. In the former, everyone (except our sorry lot) is up for it and goes up a gear. In the latter, lets be fair the bigger sides take their foot off the gas and from time to time a Newcastle or Southampton can sneak a win. In short it doesn't matter how many times Newcastle can fluke a win at the Bridge, what matters is how we do at the Bridge in comparison to other top sides.

I'm not saying our record is remotely acceptable. Just that the above image is clearly a stick to beat us with.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

These stats always feel cherry picked to suit a particular narrative.

Who are the big 6 again?
Why start in January 2015?

It clearly doesn't include cup wins and we've won a few of those.

It also ignores the fact that big team vs big team matches are different than a big team playing a smaller one. In the former, everyone (except our sorry lot) is up for it and goes up a gear. In the latter, lets be fair the bigger sides take their foot off the gas and from time to time a Newcastle or Southampton can sneak a win. In short it doesn't matter how many times Newcastle can fluke a win at the Bridge, what matters is how we do at the Bridge in comparison to other top sides.

I'm not saying our record is remotely acceptable. Just that the above image is clearly a stick to beat us with.

Nah, its not. Its straight facts. We haven't beaten a big side in the league away from home in 5 years. That is embarrassing whatever way you dress it up.

Luckily we now have a manager who gives us a chance to win those games.