Martin Ødegaard : Good or just blonde?

Who will have the worst season?


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GLITCH

Well-Known Member
Bunch of players who are at best "good"............ none of them are anywhere close to being a talisman who is on the level of Sanchez/RVP and can carry our attack on his own. None of our forwards are so good that our opponents needs to fear them and think they can't be stopped. Without at least one of such player we can forget about ever becoming a top 4 team.
It doesn't even need to be a single player. Even a combination of them don't pose the kind of threat that defenders dread. Like Liverpool's front 3 for example. That's not to say they couldn't be, but I don't think they're utilised effectively.
 

blrgooner

Established Member
I think a weak foot does matter as there are lots of situations where you are forced or it would be best play to use it, it helps you keep the ball under pressure too which I think is related to some of MØ's problems in that regard. It doesn't need to be perfect but it's an asset if it's functional.
I'd also like to highlight Bayern and Liverpool as teams without a traditional 'creative midfielder' but it doesn't stop them cutting people open, they have a lot of players who can put people off balance and that's a big source of chance creation.

Let me ask you a few questions based on your thoughts.

Who in the Arsenal mf+attack do you think he'd win shoulder to shoulder with?
' ' he'd win a foot race against?
' ' he has a superior weak foot to?
Well as you said, good weak foot an asset if functional. I won`t deny that. I just think that its not something a good player can`t get away with. Also, I never see any right footer being criticized for having "no left foot" for some reason.
In fact specifically with regards to receive a ball when under pressure, I don`t think most Arsenal players have any decent weaker foot. For example Saka always tries to receive the ball with his left foot and loses balls sometimes when pressured because of that. In any case, its not something you can`t get away with.
Regarding teams without creative midfielder, its definitely possible to create such a team. Liverpool is a good example. But Liverpool have players on the wings to can score of their foot, win headers, dribble and create chances for others, Physically strong, defend well( Mane for example very often plays in the same "LB" position which Auba plays in when he is on the left). On top of all that, they have strikers who plays behind these wingers and incredibly creative fullbacks and CBs like VVD. What we had was 3 players who are at their best near the opposition box but at best average otherwise. I am not saying every team needs creative midfielders, I think we need them with the way our team is set up.
Regarding the question of our mf + attack, maybe he doesn`t beat any of our attackers in specifically the 3 aspects you mentioned, he is way ahead of all of them in terms of technical ability and ability to see passes before controlling the ball and understanding spaces in a football pitch though.
 

Kav

Well-Known Member
You can say that about most players tbf.
Özil on his day one of the best players on the planet.
Problem was he virtually retired shortly after signing his fat last contract.
If Arsène who lets be honest 'indulged' him massively struggled to get a tune towards the end, any other manager would find it super difficult.
tbf to Mesut i think the demands of the prem were hard on him.
We seemed to have the issue with Auba as well so maybe it’s not an Özil thing but what happens after giving out mega contracts. We need to seriously reconsider these situations.

As for Ødegaard he will come good soon I am confident. He just needs a good partner in midfield to combine with and give him
The ball quickly. I think that is the biggest problem we have in midfield, our combinations are a little off and the defense has too much say in our play but this is by design and why I don’t rate Arteta. That’s another discussion though.
 

samspade

Active Member
Well as you said, good weak foot an asset if functional. I won`t deny that. I just think that its not something a good player can`t get away with. Also, I never see any right footer being criticized for having "no left foot" for some reason.
In fact specifically with regards to receive a ball when under pressure, I don`t think most Arsenal players have any decent weaker foot. For example Saka always tries to receive the ball with his left foot and loses balls sometimes when pressured because of that. In any case, its not something you can`t get away with.
Regarding teams without creative midfielder, its definitely possible to create such a team. Liverpool is a good example. But Liverpool have players on the wings to can score of their foot, win headers, dribble and create chances for others, Physically strong, defend well( Mane for example very often plays in the same "LB" position which Auba plays in when he is on the left). On top of all that, they have strikers who plays behind these wingers and incredibly creative fullbacks and CBs like VVD. What we had was 3 players who are at their best near the opposition box but at best average otherwise. I am not saying every team needs creative midfielders, I think we need them with the way our team is set up.
Regarding the question of our mf + attack, maybe he doesn`t beat any of our attackers in specifically the 3 aspects you mentioned, he is way ahead of all of them in terms of technical ability and ability to see passes before controlling the ball and understanding spaces in a football pitch though.
You must acknowledge physicality and a lack of a right foot as weaknesses of his in that case? How do you square that with a modest g+a output? Surely a player who plays in midfield and isn’t able to contribute physically has to offer you real explosion in attack? Like Cesc did.
To me every time the game is a battle he disappears and it’s a pattern AM don’t seem to want to acknowledge. I’m most interested in what people do when the teams playing poorly. AM just throw their toys out of the pram when we lose badly and forget to take note of who managed to deal with the difficult circumstances and who didn’t.
Btw I don’t think his problem is a ‘lack of fight’ or anything like that, I just don’t think he has the physical or technical tools to deal with those games.
 

Maybe

Established Member
In fact specifically with regards to receive a ball when under pressure, I don`t think most Arsenal players have any decent weaker foot. For example Saka always tries to receive the ball with his left foot and loses balls sometimes when pressured because of that. In any case, its not something you can`t get away with.
This stuff only gets mentioned for left-footed players. I can't remember Cesc using his left foot that much, top midfielder like Modric will rather use outside of his right foot for a pass than his left foot.
I don't care at all how good Ode, Pepe, or Saka are with their right foot as long as their left foot gets things done, just as I don't expect right-footed players to use their left foot (which has never been mentioned here as a problem)
 

drippin

Established Member
Being able to use both feet equally and as often is bonus. Not being able to, is not a big minus, it's more like the norm or a minor defiency especially for a player who is very good with the other foot.

I guess Özil was no good either then? (Obviously not talking about his last years here.)
 

samspade

Active Member
This stuff only gets mentioned for left-footed players. I can't remember Cesc using his left foot that much, top midfielder like Modric will rather use outside of his right foot for a pass than his left foot.
I don't care at all how good Ode, Pepe, or Saka are with their right foot as long as their left foot gets things done, just as I don't expect right-footed players to use their left foot (which has never been mentioned here as a problem)
Saka and Pepe can cross and finish with their right foot and I have criticised Auba’s left in the past. It’s not as simple as ‘x player doesn’t have a good weak foot therefore x player is bad’, I’m trying to say the package is not varied or strong enough with MØ, footedness is one aspect of the package. If you’re a player who’s going to to do the damage in the final third then the weak foot is important when you are forced to use it, the top forwards in the world are competent with their weaker foot and the one’s who aren’t are a very rare exception. If we instead compare him to midfielders (is he a 10 or is he a midfielder it needs to be decided) then I agree the weaker foot is not so much a problem providing talent but I see many occasions where Ødegaard gets himself in to situations where he’d benefit from the weaker foot to get out of a difficult situation, if I didn’t see him get into them then I wouldn’t complain. Regardless, a focus on his weak foot is not where I’m trying to take this discussion but rather an honest assessment of all his limitations and whether the sum of those limitations is a problem for him and us and I believe it is.
 

blrgooner

Established Member
You must acknowledge physicality and a lack of a right foot as weaknesses of his in that case? How do you square that with a modest g+a output? Surely a player who plays in midfield and isn’t able to contribute physically has to offer you real explosion in attack? Like Cesc did.
To me every time the game is a battle he disappears and it’s a pattern AM don’t seem to want to acknowledge. I’m most interested in what people do when the teams playing poorly. AM just throw their toys out of the pram when we lose badly and forget to take note of who managed to deal with the difficult circumstances and who didn’t.
Btw I don’t think his problem is a ‘lack of fight’ or anything like that, I just don’t think he has the physical or technical tools to deal with those games.
Of course lack of physicality and lack of a right foot is a "weakness". It doesn`t really mean much though coz Messi has the same set of weaknesses and Messi is probably the best player I have ever seen.

I don`t agree with the premise that you should either be able to contribute physically or offer a real explosion in attack to be good though. I think there are many other aspects in the game of football which are very important( technique, first touch, game intelligence, passing, vision just to name a few). AM does have seem to have a hard on for physical players though. Don`t really understand how supporters of clubs like Arsenal which is famous for technical players in the last 20 years are so obsessed with that one aspect of football. I think physicality is important btw in certain areas but I don`t think we need to prioritize physicality over technique across all the areas of the pitch.

At the end of the day, you think non physical players need to be as good as cesc to be good enough for us. I don`t agree with that.
Maybe the best option is to agree to disagree and move on.
 

samspade

Active Member
Of course lack of physicality and lack of a right foot is a "weakness". It doesn`t really mean much though coz Messi has the same set of weaknesses and Messi is probably the best player I have ever seen.

I don`t agree with the premise that you should either be able to contribute physically or offer a real explosion in attack to be good though. I think there are many other aspects in the game of football which are very important( technique, first touch, game intelligence, passing, vision just to name a few). AM does have seem to have a hard on for physical players though. Don`t really understand how supporters of clubs like Arsenal which is famous for technical players in the last 20 years are so obsessed with that one aspect of football. I think physicality is important btw in certain areas but I don`t think we need to prioritize physicality over technique across all the areas of the pitch.

At the end of the day, you think non physical players need to be as good as cesc to be good enough for us. I don`t agree with that.
Maybe the best option is to agree to disagree and move on.
Just a friendly discussion.
I will say that I think messi is extremely physically able particularly in his youth and has a very competent right foot. I believe the majority of AM agree with you on the subject actually. I think you misunderstand what I think of as physically able, I consider Messi, Bernardo Silva, David Silva, Wilshere and Rousicky physically able as while they may not perform exceptionally in track and field events they are able to cover the ground they need to at the speed they need to in midfield. It’s a game of 10 yard bursts, which I don’t think suits Ødegaard which is why I compare him to Cesc who I think was similarly hampered physically.
Ofc we can agree to disagree I was only interested in getting at what you think and why.
 

drippin

Established Member
Just a friendly discussion.
I will say that I think messi is extremely physically able particularly in his youth and has a very competent right foot. I believe the majority of AM agree with you on the subject actually. I think you misunderstand what I think of as physically able, I consider Messi, Bernardo Silva, David Silva, Wilshere and Rousicky physically able as while they may not perform exceptionally in track and field events they are able to cover the ground they need to at the speed they need to in midfield. It’s a game of 10 yard bursts, which I don’t think suits Ødegaard which is why I compare him to Cesc who I think was similarly hampered physically.
Ofc we can agree to disagree I was only interested in getting at what you think and why.
I just don't understand how you see Ødegaard being slow, and he also has a high work rate. Not the fastest, but not the slowest either.

He is also 178 cm tall, taller than either Buendia (172 cm) or Maddison (175 cm).

I'm still a bit baffled about your views, but let's see in the coming months, when he has been in EPL for a full year. His physique also should have adjusted to EPL level better at that point.
 

samspade

Active Member
I just don't understand how you see Ødegaard being slow, and he also has a high work rate. Not the fastest, but not the slowest either.

He is also 178 cm tall, taller than either Buendia (172 cm) or Maddison (175 cm).

I'm still a bit baffled about your views, but let's see in the coming months, when he has been in EPL for a full year.
Who do you think he’s faster than? Also height doesn’t directly equate to physical advantage.
 

drippin

Established Member
Who do you think he’s faster than? Also height doesn’t directly equate to physical advantage.
Top speeds or acceleration are not the easiest information to find. But here is something.

I think the fastest players I have seen are like 35-36 kmh. And slowest like 30 kmh.

TOP SPEED
20.26 mph
32.62 kmh

https://speedsdb.com/martin-Ødegaard-top-speed/
 

Riou

Average Community Shield Enjoyer
Arteta is a defensive coach, tbf.

Can't be easy for an attacker to play in our current system, not really set up for them...if he was playing for Arsène, he would be brilliant.

Need Mikel to get a bit more attacking with the way he wants to play, even Ole gives his main players a good amount of freedom.
 

dashsnow17

Sounds Like Hairspray
Trusted ✔️
Arteta is a defensive coach, tbf.

Can't be easy for an attacker to play in our current system, not really set up for them...if he was playing for Arsène, he would be brilliant.

Need Mikel to get a bit more attacking with the way he wants to play, even Ole gives his main players a good amount of freedom.

Some would say he’s not really an attacker, he’s a midfielder.
 

Oxeki

New Threads, Old Tweets
Sure, but Cesc was a much better player.
Your original point was that Ødegaard is a midfielder and that he should be cut some slack if he doesn't contribute in attack. Of course we can't blame him for for Artetaball. But still, he was bought to to help facilitate our attack. He hasn't done that though. I don't blame him tbf.
He plays in probably the most dysfunctional team in the PL. Even prime Cesc will struggle to have the impact he had under Wenger.
 

Garrincha

Wilf Zaha Aficionado
Trusted ✔️
never watched alot but got the impression at Sociedad he had that burst to beat a man & then talent on the ball / cool head to take on a second... that would be huge to replicate over here
 

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