Martin Ødegaard : Good or just blonde?

Who will have the worst season?


  • Total voters
    103

Blankety Blank

Well-Known Member
Yeah, just a couple of meh performances

I too wish last season was just a bad dream
Well considering he didnt pitch up until mid Jan & we had one of the better points totals in the league post XMAS, I am sure It is fair to say that the actual bad dream/nightmare period last season was before he even arrived.
Please dont let these mere facts get in the way of your agenda though :p
 

AbouCuéllar

Wishes to get banned elsewhere
He had a poor patch there, of 2-3 games where he looked honestly unrecognisable and totally out of it, so he deserved the drop, but for a team so, so poor in midfield play, he simply has to be in there, he's our best player on the ball.

I know ESR has had a purple patch but I still think this team actually needs Ødegaard more than ESR for the qualities he brings. They really should be compatible and Auba and all his goal-scoring potential + marginal contributions from ESR + Saka should be enough goals, but Arteta for whatever reason just hasn't been able to get it to work.

Arteta, though, and the football he is striving for...I don't know what it is...I thought after ESR's insertion last season it was clear what he was going for, ie, that he was finally trying to make strides toward the juego de posición, possession dominant football we expected from him, and his summer signings seemed to suggest that even further, but it is really strange his inability to coax out anything even resembling that, and it makes you wonder if it's not just lack of managerial skill or risk-averse tendencies seeping into the players, or if he really just doesn't have a clear vision of what he wants (which starts putting him in idea-less, philosophy-less Em*ry territory...).
 

MikelHadADream

Established Member
He had a poor patch there, of 2-3 games where he looked honestly unrecognisable and totally out of it, so he deserved the drop, but for a team so, so poor in midfield play, he simply has to be in there, he's our best player on the ball.

I know ESR has had a purple patch but I still think this team actually needs Ødegaard more than ESR for the qualities he brings. They really should be compatible and Auba and all his goal-scoring potential + marginal contributions from ESR + Saka should be enough goals, but Arteta for whatever reason just hasn't been able to get it to work.

Arteta, though, and the football he is striving for...I don't know what it is...I thought after ESR's insertion last season it was clear what he was going for, ie, that he was finally trying to make strides toward the juego de posición, possession dominant football we expected from him, and his summer signings seemed to suggest that even further, but it is really strange his inability to coax out anything even resembling that, and it makes you wonder if it's not just lack of managerial skill or risk-averse tendencies seeping into the players, or if he really just doesn't have a clear vision of what he wants (which starts putting him in idea-less, philosophy-less Em*ry territory...).

We don't have the midfield or forward players for this type of football. We also don't press well enough to win the ball back quickly.
 

AbouCuéllar

Wishes to get banned elsewhere
We don't have the midfield or forward players for this type of football. We also don't press well enough to win the ball back quickly.
I don't really agree. ESR, Ødegaard, Saka...these are very much the types of players for this kind of football. Thomas and Xhaka is below the par of the type of pivot you want for this type of football but for a 4th-6th placed version of it it's good enough.

Auba perhaps not as much but Pep did very well with a poacher in Agüero for a number of years.
 

MikelHadADream

Established Member
I don't really agree. ESR, Ødegaard, Saka...these are very much the types of players for this kind of football. Thomas and Xhaka is below the par of the type of pivot you want for this type of football but for a 4th-6th placed version of it it's good enough.

Auba perhaps not as much but Pep did very well with a poacher in Agüero for a number of years.

ESR and Saka are not possession players at this point. Along with Ødegaard, they are also really young players, to dominate the ball to the extent City do you have to have complete confidence in yourself and team. Hard to achieve that level of maturity with a load of kids.

We also lack guys in midfield as well that firstly can get on the ball higher up the pitch, and also who can press and win the ball back effectively.

The whole positional play is a bit of a nonsense now in this day and age anyway, most teams good use it to a certain extent to. It's all about the manager getting the best out of the players at his disposal and playing to their relative strengths.
 

AbouCuéllar

Wishes to get banned elsewhere
ESR and Saka are not possession players at this point. Along with Ødegaard, they are also really young players, to dominate the ball to the extent City do you have to have complete confidence in yourself and team. Hard to achieve that level of maturity with a load of kids.

Think you're letting Arteta off a bit too easy here. Potter, and even Vieira to a certain extent, are achieving it in a watered-down version with much less. ESR and Saka aren't possession players in their current set-up, but again, let's not discard the importance of coaching and set-up, they are certainly players with quality on the ball that can be utilised in such a set-up.
The whole positional play is a bit of a nonsense now in this day and age anyway, most teams good use it to a certain extent to. It's all about the manager getting the best out of the players at his disposal and playing to their relative strengths.

Sure, when I say juego de posición in concert with possession dominant football, though, I think we all know what I'm talking about, and it's nothing resembling what Arteta is doing or eliciting. If you like we can just take out the juego de posición part and say possession dominant football, which in this day and age entails juego de posición, because no one is doing that without juego de posición nowadays (maybe Gasperini? I don't know), fluid, hugely flexible with leaving certain spaces open type Wenger ball is pretty much extinct.
 

scytheavatar

Established Member
Reckon he will start against Newcastle and get MOTM. Arteta will want to play an attacking team

Why? Playing an attacking team or having to destroy weak teams to send messages has never been something in Arteta's philosophy. And playing Ødegaard means playing a less attacking team cause guys like Lacazette actually give us a chaos factor that Ødegaard can't give with his safe possession play.
 

Mraven

Active Member
Why? Playing an attacking team or having to destroy weak teams to send messages has never been something in Arteta's philosophy. And playing Ødegaard means playing a less attacking team cause guys like Lacazette actually give us a chaos factor that Ødegaard can't give with his safe possession play.
The Liverpool game gives a reason to shake things up a bit. Ødegaard didn’t start after his injury because the team was on a run.

The attacking play has improved lately and I’m sure Arteta prefers the fluidity of Ødegaard over Laca
 

mirrorstares

Active Member
Can see Ødegaard starting that game too, the problem is that if our attacking play has improved lately, it has been 100% because of Laca.

Ødegaard might be enough to get a lame 1-0 against Newcastle anyway
 

scytheavatar

Established Member
The Liverpool game gives a reason to shake things up a bit. Ødegaard didn’t start after his injury because the team was on a run.

The attacking play has improved lately and I’m sure Arteta prefers the fluidity of Ødegaard over Laca

Arteta has been visibly super unhappy with Auba and doesn't believe he's capable of being our center forward, no one in our squad can be right now other than Lacazette. Maybe he'll play Ødegaard when we buy a new center forward in Jan (Fabrizio Romano just reported that it is our #1 priority). But Ødegaard has been playing at the level of post contract Özil, and has done nothing to make himself undroppable or a guaranteed starter that some fans see him as.
 

Idiotologue

Well-Known Member
I think the problem is that Ødegaard ends up playing like an 8 instead of a 10 because we don't build through the middle and have no fluidity in attack. His best attribute is his ability to put people through, but in this system he just plays as someone who protects the ball and gives it to the next man.

Maybe him and ESR should switch numbers.
 

Barry

Well-Known Member
Arteta has been visibly super unhappy with Auba and doesn't believe he's capable of being our center forward, no one in our squad can be right now other than Lacazette. Maybe he'll play Ødegaard when we buy a new center forward in Jan (Fabrizio Romano just reported that it is our #1 priority). But Ødegaard has been playing at the level of post contract Özil, and has done nothing to make himself undroppable or a guaranteed starter that some fans see him as.
I'd quite like to see Laca up top with Ode behind him, just to see what it looks like. I'm not sure that Laca has that strikers instinct to get on the end of balls that Auba has, but he improves our general link up play. A front 4 of ESR, Laca, Ødegaard and Pepe against Newcastle would be quite interesting. I'm not saying that it suddenly fixes all the problems but it would be worth trying
 

Mrs Bergkamp

Established Member
Trusted ✔️
I'd quite like to see Laca up top with Ode behind him, just to see what it looks like. I'm not sure that Laca has that strikers instinct to get on the end of balls that Auba has, but he improves our general link up play. A front 4 of ESR, Laca, Ødegaard and Pepe against Newcastle would be quite interesting. I'm not saying that it suddenly fixes all the problems but it would be worth trying
At this stage, anything different is worth a try. Two years on and the attack is still blunt.
 

tcahill

Well-Known Member
People here need to chill. Ødegaard will come good.

-He was one of the best midfielders in la liga at Sociedad, and was good here last season in a whole new league with no adjustment period.

-Arteta can't coach an attack. At the moment we're set piece FC, prime Özil wouldn't be able to create from open play here.

-He's been played in the wrong position recently. Playing him, Partey and ESR in midfield hasn't worked in a single game.
 

scytheavatar

Established Member
People here need to chill. Ødegaard will come good.

-He was one of the best midfielders in la liga at Sociedad, and was good here last season in a whole new league with no adjustment period.

-Arteta can't coach an attack. At the moment we're set piece FC, prime Özil wouldn't be able to create from open play here.

-He's been played in the wrong position recently. Playing him, Partey and ESR in midfield hasn't worked in a single game.

Ødegaard was never the same player after his knee problems started...... the Ødegaard in Sociedad is ancient history and not the same Ødegaard who is playing for us now. Ever since then he had been Reyes'd and seem less willing to get into physical duels.
 

blrgooner

Established Member
What is interesting is that there is a narrative that we have improved in attack as well as not improved in attack(Because we have scored goals in set pieces). They come out in different contexts here.
I don`t think we improved our buildup play at all with Laca up front. We did improve the way we hassled the opposition and set up quick attacking moves more by winning the ball from the opposition because that`s the game Laca facilitates. While that in itself may not be a bad thing, I don`t think we should become a team which can`t play a slow buildup game in the long run.
Having more attacking players on the pitch actually makes us more defensive because once we get the ball in the midfield, we can`t keep the ball and push up as a team because we don`t have players good enough to keep the ball. The best attacking teams in EPL play without classic strikers these days(City and Liverpool). Chelsea is another team which keep complete control of the game by having more "defensive" players on the pitch. We have 2 strikers and Saka who for some reason is playing like a "direct" winger always running at the FB these days. I feel the balance in the team is off in attack at the moment.
 

scytheavatar

Established Member
What is interesting is that there is a narrative that we have improved in attack as well as not improved in attack(Because we have scored goals in set pieces). They come out in different contexts here.
I don`t think we improved our buildup play at all with Laca up front. We did improve the way we hassled the opposition and set up quick attacking moves more by winning the ball from the opposition because that`s the game Laca facilitates. While that in itself may not be a bad thing, I don`t think we should become a team which can`t play a slow buildup game in the long run.
Having more attacking players on the pitch actually makes us more defensive because once we get the ball in the midfield, we can`t keep the ball and push up as a team because we don`t have players good enough to keep the ball. The best attacking teams in EPL play without classic strikers these days(City and Liverpool). Chelsea is another team which keep complete control of the game by having more "defensive" players on the pitch. We have 2 strikers and Saka who for some reason is playing like a "direct" winger always running at the FB these days. I feel the balance in the team is off in attack at the moment.

In the long run we should looking for an upgrade on Laca and Auba. In the short term we need to make do with what we have and make sure we get into Europe next season. And playing Laca simply is better than playing Ødegaard. You are deluding yourself if you think Ødegaard is Özil/Cesc and will be the key for us playing "slow buildup game". He is not that good of a player.
 

blrgooner

Established Member
In the long run we should looking for an upgrade on Laca and Auba. In the short term we need to make do with what we have and make sure we get into Europe next season. And playing Laca simply is better than playing Ødegaard. You are deluding yourself if you think Ødegaard is Özil/Cesc and will be the key for us playing "slow buildup game". He is not that good of a player.
Well, I think Ødegaard is the best option we have to play any kind of possession game. He is not a prime Cesc/Özil for sure but Chelsea keep control of the game with Mason Mount there who is not Cesc/Özil level either. My point is that we need more passing between midfielders. I am not suggesting that Ødegaard will turn us into title contenders here but he is definitely good enough to improve us IMO. Play enough games with ESR, Saka and Ødegaard and I think we will improve in attack.
 

scytheavatar

Established Member
Well, I think Ødegaard is the best option we have to play any kind of possession game. He is not a prime Cesc/Özil for sure but Chelsea keep control of the game with Mason Mount there who is not Cesc/Özil level either. My point is that we need more passing between midfielders. I am not suggesting that Ødegaard will turn us into title contenders here but he is definitely good enough to improve us IMO. Play enough games with ESR, Saka and Ødegaard and I think we will improve in attack.

Improve us how? As someone mentioned in this topic Ødegaard has vision, technique, defensive awareness, knows how to press smartly, committed to our system.. yet absolutely nothing happens with him on the pitch. The ESR/Saka/Ødegaard will never work because the 3 of them doesn't score enough goals, it doesn't help that Auba is no longer as reliable as he once was. There is no point in having more passing between midfielders only to be toothless in front of our opponent's goal. You don't win games by having possession, you win them by putting the ball into the net enough times.
 
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