Merci Arsène

[Mohamed7]

Wavey stuff.

I watch on bein and never find him on. May be he comes for the Arabic channel only. Even that I watch it a few times but never seen him.

I am stuck with Keys, Andy Gray (fantastic commentator; poor pundit), and players like Paul Robinson (boring)

 

[Toby]

Speculation about Kovac succession: Wenger a candidate?

According to "BILD" information, ex-Arsenal manager Arsène Wenger supposedly is one of the top candidates to replace Niko Kovac in case of a sacking. The 69-year old's name is heard "more and more often internally", writes "BILD" on Monday without giving a clear source. After the 3:3 against Dusseldorf, "in the dressing room, a number of players have spoken up against Kovac" when the coach wasn't in the room.

FC Bayern previously tried for the German speaking Wenger in the early 90s, as Karl-Heinz Rummenigge had revealed before Bayern and Arsenal's last meeting in the Champions League in the spring of 2017. "Unfortunately it didn't happen back then, because he had decided on something else", Rummenigge remembered before the trip to London. His sympathies for the Alsacian apparently haven't diminished, though. "Personally, I have a very good relationship with Arsène Wenger, whom I have appreciated for a very long, long time." According to information of "Suddeutsche Zeitung", the club hierarchy around Uli Hoeness and Rummenigge is said to have already "carefully felt and listened around the dressing room" recently.

On Saturday, Hoeness has given current manager Kovac a job guaranteee until the Champions League match against Benfica Lisbon on Tuesday. "We're playing Benfica on Tuesday, and for that our manager will surely be Niko Kovac", Hoeness said and added: "After that we'll have to analyze where we are." In the Bundesliga, Bayern are already trailing league leaders Borussia Dortmund by 9 points.

After CL rookie Kovac, Wenger would be a manager with great international experience. Currently without a club, too, is Ralph Hasenhuttl, who until last summer had managed RB Leipzig. The 51-year old knows Bayern from his time as a Bayern amateur player 2002 - 2004.

"Kicker" reported on Monday on Zinedine Zidane being mentioned more often in relation to Bayern. The frenchman would be the big solution. Zidane had quit at Real Madrid in the summer after winning three Champions League titles in a row. After his protege had been linked to Manchester United in October, his longtime agent Alain Migliaccio has though reiterated that Zidane was taking a one year sabbatical.

https://www.transfermarkt.de/spekul...r-ndash-wenger-ein-kandidat-/view/news/324160

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/fc-bayern-kovac-hoeness-1.4225961

Seems Wenger is a serious contender for the Bayern job along Zinedine Zidane with multiple sources in Germany reporting on Bayern interest in both, whereas Hasenhuttl is more unrealistic, as his name being mentioned is probably based on him being losely linked to the Bayern gig last summer and still being without a team. His more likely destinations are rather Schalke or Leverkusen - I don't think Bayern will go with another rather inexperienced man after Kovac, especially as Hasenhuttl's character, management and football style are rather similar to Kovac's.
Zidane is a) taking a "sabbatical", if you can call being Juve's DoF that, and b) clearly being set up to take over the next of his ex-clubs. Don't think he will deviate from that plan to take over a crisis ridden Bayern.

So the way things are going, come early December we could very likely see Arsène in Munich.

 

[<<reed>>]

Seems Wenger is a serious contender for the Bayern job along Zinedine Zidane with multiple sources in Germany reporting on Bayern interest in both, whereas Hasenhuttl is more unrealistic, as his name being mentioned is probably based on him being losely linked to the Bayern gig last summer and still being without a team. His more likely destinations are rather Schalke or Leverkusen - I don't think Bayern will go with another rather inexperienced man after Kovac, especially as Hasenhuttl's character, management and football style are rather similar to Kovac's.
Zidane is a) taking a "sabbatical", if you can call being Juve's DoF that, and b) clearly being set up to take over the next of his ex-clubs. Don't think he will deviate from that plan to take over a crisis ridden Bayern.

So the way things are going, come early December we could very likely see Arséne in Munich.

Do you think Wenger would be a good choice for Bayern atm?
I just don't understand what manager do Bayern's dressing room want (bar Heynckes ofc), they somehow fell out with Carlo who is one of the nicest guys around, now they don't want Kovac either, wtf? Are the big egos of Ribery, Robben and Rimaal gonna respect Wenger whose team they trashed 5-1 three times?

 

[Rimaal]

Do you think Wenger would be a good choice for Bayern atm?
I just don't understand what manager do Bayern's dressing room want (bar Heynckes ofc), they somehow fell out with Carlo who is one of the nicest guys around, now they don't want Kovac either, wtf? Are the big egos of Ribery, Robben and Rimaal gonna respect Wenger whose team they trashed 5-1 three times?

No.

 

[Toby]

Do you think Wenger would be a good choice for Bayern atm?
I just don't understand what manager do Bayern's dressing room want (bar Heynckes ofc), they somehow fell out with Carlo who is one of the nicest guys around, now they don't want Kovac either, wtf? Are the big egos of Ribery, Robben and Rimaal gonna respect Wenger whose team they trashed 5-1 three times?

The last managers that worked out for them were Guardiola with his massive tactical acumen and Heynckes with a mix of that and the ability to get respect from and appease the big egos.

From all the candidates out there who can be taken seriously, which excludes Zidane, Wenger seems the closest to Heynckes. I think he's got the ability to appease egos and enough reputation to not make the Bayern squad bail on him instanly, like the did with Kovac. Although Ancelotti does fit that same profile and they turned on him after 1.5 seasons, iirc. Although rumours at the time suggested Ancelotti was massively off hands, something I've never heard about Wenger.

Bar his bad last years at Arsenal, Arsène still has a big reputation, and the Bayern players as well as the hierarchy probably are aware that the financial and squad situation at Arsenal wasn't the absolute best.

Bayern need a bit of fresh attacking air and Wenger can give that to them. If Hummels and Boateng decide to play for the manager again, that will solve at least some of their defensive problems.

Wenger can work with young talent and that's whom Bayern have to integrate: Gnabry, Tolisso, Coman, Davies, Goretzka, Sanches.

If Wenger can get on a page with Robben, Ribery, Muller and Hummels, he's good to go.

In the end, like a wrote in the German Football thread a while ago, this Bayern crisis is down to arrogance, an ageing squad and players having too much power behind the scenes. Right now that's toxic and it has the potential to get any manager fired. Before they think about new tactical heights, the next guy who comes in has to finally shift the aged power brokers to the fringes of the squad with the backing of the hierarchy. That's a delicate situation and something I think an experienced, respected guy like Wenger might be more fitting to do than a young upstart like Kovac or Hasenhuttl, who at their age and experience are or will immediately be questioned for by the squad. At the same time Wenger has enough tactical ability to get them firing again and back into the Top 4, which is all you could expect this season.

So, yes, I actually think Wenger is a good choice for them right now.

 

[Toby]

team they trashed 5-1 three times?

I don't think club managements and players don't go off that too much, or clubs would never hire coaches from clubs they won against or thrashed at some point, and managers who worked previous jobs in smaller teams or at teams that got beat by his new club would never succeed and player would never respect them- and there's plenty of examples against such reasoning.

Thomas Tuchel has a record of 1 win, 2 draws and 7 losses in 10 matches against Dortmund at Mainz, yet they hired him. Against Bayern it's 5 wins, 2 draws and 10 losses in 17 matches at Mainz and BVB, including 4-1 and 5-1 thrashings when he was at Dortmund - yet they definitely thought about hiring him, Bayern fans are still crying out for him and he probably would have gotten the job if not for Hoeness' doubt and Hummels' hate for him.

Max Allegri has a record of 4 wins, 2 draws and 8 losses against Juve, including the fact 10 of those 14 clashes came when he was at his previous station AC Milan, and he only managed to win 2 of those, with his other 2 wins against Juve stemming from his Cagliari times. So that's a manager who, even at AC Milan, has a bad, bad record against his next employer, but was still hired cause they looked at the whole package and who ultimately went on to become a huge success.

 

[<<reed>>]

I don't think club managements and players don't go off that too much, or clubs would never hire coaches from clubs they won against or thrashed at some point, and managers who worked previous jobs in smaller teams or at teams that got beat by his new club would never succeed and player would never respect them- and there's plenty of examples against such reasoning.

Thomas Tuchel has a record of 1 win, 2 draws and 7 losses in 10 matches against Dortmund at Mainz, yet they hired him. Against Bayern it's 5 wins, 2 draws and 10 losses in 17 matches at Mainz and BVB, including 4-1 and 5-1 thrashings when he was at Dortmund - yet they definitely thought about hiring him, Bayern fans are still crying out for him and he probably would have gotten the job if not for Hoeness' doubt and Hummels' hate for him.

I don't think it's a big problem for the Bayern hierarchy too, I was talking about the dressing room. The dressing room of FC Hollywood is something else, up there with PSG.

 

[<<reed>>]

No.

Wenger & Bayern fighting for Top 4 in Bundesliga with Ramsey playing number 10.

Tears in my eyes.

 

[Toby]

I don't think it's a big problem for the Bayern hierarchy too, I was talking about the dressing room. The dressing room of FC Hollywood is something else, up there with PSG.

I think the same goes for the dressing room. If he steps in and wins them over that's it and there's multiple ways to do that. If he wins over Robben through appealing to his ego and a good personal relationship, I don't think Robben will consistently point to matches from the past.

And it absolutely will hinge on the backing of the hierarchy to handle players like Robben and Ribery and create a new structure in the dressing room.

 

[A_G]

the Bayern players as well as the hierarchy probably are aware that the financial and squad situation at Arsenal wasn't the absolute best.

This is a good point, Bayern have never hid their disdain for clubs like City so they could take into consideration the fact that Wenger hasn't been competing on a level playing field.

 

[Toby]

This is a good point, Bayern have never hid their disdain for clubs like City so they could take into consideration the fact that Wenger hasn't been competing on a level playing field.

Yep. And looking at things now, it might actually be a big plus for Arsène that the super duper modern tactical analyst Ligue 1 winner at PSG and EL dominator Unai Emery hasn't taken that same Arsenal any further by now than the apparent football dinosaur Wenger.

So right now Wenger's probably the most iconic, experienced manager still active, with a massive and standout reputation in the football world, who's successor at Arsenal hasn't managed to taint Arsène's performance cause he actually isn't performing any better. That, too, should work to silence a few voices calling or fearing Wenger being outdated and past it.

 

[Toby]

German transfermarkt Bayern forum via Twitter "insiders":

Tuesday against Benfica will be Kovac's last game as a goodbye gift from Uli to his boy Niko. Wenger will come in on Wednesday; 2 year contract, 7m in wages.

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

I want Wenger as Arsenal chairman but I could stomach him winning big with a horrible mega club-just because it's Arsène.

 

[Makingtrax]

I think the same goes for the dressing room. If he steps in and wins them over that's it and there's multiple ways to do that. If he wins over Robben through appealing to his ego and a good personal relationship, I don't think Robben will consistently point to matches from the past.

And it absolutely will hinge on the backing of the hierarchy to handle players like Robben and Ribery and create a new structure in the dressing room.

Personally, I think that Wenger is such an icon that most of the dressing room will love him. He’s got the sort of personality that diffuses conflict with humour, and he encourages players rather than humiliating them ( unlike Mourinho). He speaks the language and has huge tactical experience.

The big problem would be the fans. Probably Zidane is their No 1 and after the humiliation that Wenger got at the hands of Arsenal Fan TV and many Arsenal fans, he’ll seem like damaged goods.

 

[Toby]

Personally, I think that Wenger is such an icon that most of the dressing room will love him. He’s got the sort of personality that diffuses conflict with humour, and he encourages players rather than humiliating them ( unlike Mourinho). He speaks the language and has huge tactical experience.

The big problem would be the fans. Probably Zidane is their No 1 and after the humiliation that Wenger got at the hands of Arsenal Fan TV and many Arsenal fans, he’ll seem like damaged goods.

Absolutely agree on the first paragraph.

Regarding the second I can only say that out of interest I read the transfermarkt Bayern forum, and apart from a few, most on there would welcome Wenger with open arms and can't wait for it to happen.

 

[<<reed>>]

Personally, I think that Wenger is such an icon that most of the dressing room will love him. He’s got the sort of personality that diffuses conflict with humour, and he encourages players rather than humiliating them ( unlike Mourinho). He speaks the language and has huge tactical experience.

The problem is Ancelotti fits your description too (bar the language), and somehow he didn't work out for them.

 

[A_G]

the super duper modern tactical analyst Ligue 1 winner at PSG and EL dominator Unai Emery hasn't taken that same Arsenal any further by now than the apparent football dinosaur Wenger.

Judge him in May.

 

[Toby]

Judge him in May.

Now that we are done with Wenger we should be as quick fire and ruthless as other teams with their managers.

 

[Makingtrax]

Reading the BBC article this morning about Sean Dyche struggling, brings back musings on Wenger. Dyche was the flavour of the EPL last year. Mourinho sacked for taking Chelsea close to the relegation zone and now struggling again with United. Ranieri after his 2015 success sacked the following year for getting down close to the relegation zone.

All goes to show that Wenger’s 20 years without dropping out of the top 4, with his spend, was an absolutely insane statistic + 7 FA Cups. Ridiculous consistency. The man was genius.

It took memes, planes, angry rants, protests and half empty stadiums to drag him kicking and screaming out of the top 4, and then only by one point in 2017, before everything eventually became too much.

It doesn’t matter how good you are. You can’t beat money, other top class managers and your own supporters.

But in the final analysis, despite his genius, it could be argued that Wenger shot himself in the foot. The chances of winning the league spending 5th and below is small. He should have known that and left when one of the top foreign clubs came calling, soon after City joined Chelsea and United at the top of the money tree. In the end a combination of vanity, complacency and loyalty also helped pull the trigger.

 

[celestis]

Absolutely agree on the first paragraph.

Regarding the second I can only say that out of interest I read the transfermarkt Bayern forum, and apart from a few, most on there would welcome Wenger with open arms and can't wait for it to happen.

So Toby people are quite confident this will happen ?