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Merci Arsène

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
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Country: England

Player:Saliba
You're looking at minutia there though. Goals conceded doesn't really have much input on overall league position when you're looking at a difference of 0.14 goals conceded a game :lol:

Arsène was a better and more progressive manager than Graham, 100%, but the bedrock of the early Arsène defence was built on the Graham defensive unit that Arsène got to be a bit more professional and put some faith into them that they could play a bit too. Arsène didn't make them better defenders because he didn't need to.

Winterburn, Dixon, Adams, Bould / Keown were a better defensive unit than the Invincibles version. Not necessarily better players as individuals but as a unit they were superior. I doubt many fans who watched both sides would dispute that tbh.
We’ve had these debates many times and when stats dispute your claims you always revert to ‘everybody knows that’ or ‘I doubt many fans would dispute that’. Arsène made them into better defenders by better nutrition, stopping their drinking habits and ‘taking off their shackles’ as Lee Dixon put it.

And another thing, David Devin was chief transfer negotiator and was responsible for bringing in many of the players in that era under Graham and Arsène. Neither of those two managers are responsible for some our best signings at that time, Bergkamp is a great example. None of those teams were 100% Grahams or Arsène in terms of personnel acquired.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
Arsène built his success off George Graham’s back line was something that appeared in social media with increasing frequency during the stadium build trophy drought. It was a sort of spiteful way to attack the guy who was battling against a lack of money and increasing unrest from those who understood little about the clubs circumstances or the advantages that managers at City, United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Sp**s had over him.

Very sad to see people still wanting to carry on with that myth despite him having gone in such tragic circumstances. It’s similar to that other myth about him declining, prior to the campaign to remove him. Arsène very much made his own success and was a trail blazer that should be celebrated for all he achieved, right up to 2016, before the knives really came out.
 

GoonerJeeves

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: Norway
The knives were out for Wenger earlier than 2016. That Stoke incident was an ugly thing in 2014. Despicable then, and honestly, downright bizarre now.

I do think one lesson is that we do better when our motto is headed. On the whole, you want your manager to be successful, and the fans play their part. It is good to see the atmosphere around the club now. We need that.
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Rice
We’ve had these debates many times and when stats dispute your claims you always revert to ‘everybody knows that’ or ‘I doubt many fans would dispute that’. Arsène made them into better defenders by better nutrition, stopping their drinking habits and ‘taking off their shackles’ as Lee Dixon put it.

And another thing, David Devin was chief transfer negotiator and was responsible for bringing in many of the players in that era under Graham and Arsène. Neither of those two managers are responsible for some our best signings at that time, Bergkamp is a great example. None of those teams were 100% Grahams or Arsène in terms of personnel acquired.

That's not making them better defenders though.

Arsène came in and made those guys more professional in their habits, definitely prolonged their careers with it and put belief in them that they could be more than just blockers and flat out defenders, they could play a bit.

He made them more rounded footballers. He didn't make them better at the art of defending though. I'm sure Arsène has even said that himself, or words to those effects.

Anyway I won't derail this thread any further. I wasn't trying to make it a Arsène vs Graham thing. Arsène was 100% a better manager than Graham overall.
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Rice
Arsène built his success off George Graham’s back line was something that appeared in social media with increasing frequency during the stadium build trophy drought. It was a sort of spiteful way to attack the guy who was battling against a lack of money and increasing unrest from those who understood little about the clubs circumstances or the advantages that managers at City, United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Sp**s had over him.

Very sad to see people still wanting to carry on with that myth despite him having gone in such tragic circumstances. It’s similar to that other myth about him declining, prior to the campaign to remove him. Arsène very much made his own success and was a trail blazer that should be celebrated for all he achieved, right up to 2016, before the knives really came out.

At the time they were known as the Graham / English backline. It was talked about frequently at time that Arsène had inherited one of the best backlines in English football history. Most of these guys had been at Arsenal for the better part of a decade before Arsène arrived.

It's not true to suggest this is a social media age thing. It's always been a thing. Arsène inherited a fantastic defensive unit and managed to convince them to change their ways and buckle down to prolong their careers.

The perception at the time in the media and at least parts of the fanbase was that Arsène was a weird foreign guy with weird ideas, but if he's managed to get old fashioned guys like Adams and Bould onboard and do a 180 in their behaviour maybe there's something special about him.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
That's not making them better defenders though.

Arsène came in and made those guys more professional in their habits, definitely prolonged their careers with it and put belief in them that they could be more than just blockers and flat out defenders, they could play a bit.

He made them more rounded footballers. He didn't make them better at the art of defending though. I'm sure Arsène has even said that himself, or words to those effects.

Anyway I won't derail this thread any further. I wasn't trying to make it a Arsène vs Graham thing. Arsène was 100% a better manager than Graham overall.
You’re probably quite happy with posters saying that Arteta has made Xhaka a better player, but Arsène making Adams a better defender isn’t allowed. You’re skipping around it with semantics. Lol.

Arsène inherited a good club back four which he improved, whether Dein or Graham acquired them. Like many other managers at other clubs. Arsène owing his early success to Graham’s back line is just spiteful stuff. He very much transformed English football and built his own success.
 

Jury

A-M's drunk uncle
You’re probably quite happy with posters saying that Arteta has made Xhaka a better player, but Arsène making Adams a better defender isn’t allowed. You’re skipping around it with semantics. Lol.

Arsène inherited a good club back four which he improved, whether Dein or Graham acquired them. Like many other managers at other clubs. Arsène owing his early success to Graham’s back line is just spiteful stuff. He very much transformed English football and built his own success.
Wenger doesn't 'owe' that early success to Grahams back 5--they were just there already and they had proven how good they were already, winning two league titles and winning a European trophy. He prolonged the career of Adams and as Adams himself has said, Wenger taught him a pass that allowed him to switch play. As for making him a better defender as in making him better at defending against attackers, that's obviously nonsense. Mikel hasn't made Xhaka a better player either, hes just altered his position and role and it's yielded so far. Wenger deserves credit for cleaning up and extending the careers of the back 5, just as Mikel deserves credit for eeking out the best of what Xhaka has to offer.
 

TinFish

Well-Known Member
When is this man getting his statue erected?

Last I heard, the statue has been made and it will be in the forefront of the emirates stadium. It’s just gathering dust in storage ….

I hope we can celebrate his legacy later in the season. Use it as sort of a rallying cry and inspiration for our players to push hard and finish as high as we can this season.
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
Arsène was such a unique manager in many ways.

Not many super successful managers like him.care about their players emotional well being like that.
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
comical-wenger.jpg



...tons of managers have had unlimited dirty oil money since, but can't even match the don 😍
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
"In 2004 Arsène Wenger led the new Invincibles of Arsenal to one of the most remarkable feats the modern game has ever seen..."



...will never be topped!

#MerciArseneIndeed
 

say yes

forum master baiter
We'll never see football like this ever again. No one's trying to play football like this. Probably because it's so difficult to achieve, people instead opt for rigid systems
No one plays football like that anymore for the same reason that no one plays football like Brazil's 1970 team any more.

It's not to do with difficulty: the game has adapted, and fluid Wengerball is no longer an effective way of playing.
 

GDeep™

League is very weak
No one plays football like that anymore for the same reason that no one plays football like Brazil's 1970 team any more.

It's not to do with difficulty: the game has adapted, and fluid Wengerball is no longer an effective way of playing.
Even when we were doing it, for 20 years or so, there was nobody in Europe matching us. I’ll argue for 20 years we played the best football in Europe, consistently.

Football atm is boring, rigid, robotic, run and press etc. I’m sure it’s only a cycle though and we’ll advance to something else.
 

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