Messi vs. Ronaldo

[RoadrunnerReloaded]

Ronaldo has been at Real Madrid so long that people have forgotten how good he was at United. Ronaldo was insane in his last two years in England, not playing with a ridiculous group of players behind him. He carried United, he carried Portugal, he continues to be the decisive player for Real Madrid. Messi has been surrounded by amazing players his entire career. Its incredible that he is still rated above Ronaldo so convincingly when he has only done it for one club and hasn't been able to carry Argentina.

I would have Ronaldo in my team any day over Messi. Messi is the better dribbler, creative presence and the calmer finisher. However, Ronaldo has too much in my opinion. Physical power, aerial ability, goes off either foot and an instinct and movement that just makes him a killer. You simply cannot shut out Ronaldo. I fell you can shut out Messi.

You say this like Ronaldo had to play with Joey Barton and Shawn Wright Phillips his career.

The last few years Real has had easily the best midfield in the world with Modric-Kroos being comfortably the best since Xavi-Iniesta declined, the best or 2nd best pair of full backs in Marcelo and Carvajal and full of expensive attacking players of the moment like Bale, Isco, James, Benzema, etc.

When he was at United that phenomenal year he was playing in front of an absolute world class defense led by Ferdinand, Evra and Vidic all in their prime and he was playing with Rooney and Tevez in the best years of their careers which was at a world class level.

Ronaldo has consistently been surrounded with far better sides than Maradona ever was at club level just for one example.

 

[Dokaka]

I hate the fallacy that Messi couldn't/can't carry Argentina.

He ****ing did. He took Argentina to a World Cup final in a tournament where he literally did everything offensively on won player of the tournament. He lost to what is perhaps the most talented national team of the last decade, in a very tight final then went into overtime. Where was Ronaldo during the world cup? Oh right, didn't even get out of the ****ing group stages.

Again, flash and pomp beats all apparently. The team Ronaldo plays on won the Euros, hurray. He didn't even play in the final. But I guess we don't care about context.

Wanna hear a fun stat? Messi has been in 5 finals with Argentina. Ronaldo? 2, ****ing 2, one in which he got injured early.

 

[Batman]

You miss the point.I didn't say that international football isn't important or so,i rate WC more than any other competition in football,but i say that some players don't play on their usual level beacuse there are some **** players in the squad,bad manager,no understanding etc.Spain was dominant in that period from 2008 to 2014 just because the most players had quality and played for Barca and Real,that's big advantage.You forget that Ronaldo also played with players like Deco,Figo,Pauleta.You would say now that he was young and wasn't top player like now probably.I say that Argentina has better squad,but some players are average.Just look Argentina's defence,no real quality.

All that sounds like a bunch of excuse making. The fact is that Messi has had more talent and failed to lead it to a trophy. Ronaldo has a trophy with less talent. End of. There is no other point. No point you could attempt to make without changing history makes Messi look good in this comparison. Every player brought up in the GOAT discussion except Messi has won something for their country. Can't be ignored or excused by other players' performances.

 

[Notorious Big]

All that sounds like a bunch of excuse making. The fact is that Messi has had more talent and failed to lead it to a trophy. Ronaldo has a trophy with less talent. End of. There is no other point. No point you could attempt to make without changing history makes Messi look good in this comparison.

No,it's not excuse,it's reality.If you watch football,you know that international stuff is different and that a lot of factors is important to win big trophy.Also if you watch Messi vs Ronaldo duels in El Clasico,Messi did better in the most games.You said that you don't give **** about strength of the teams.I understand that people love one player,team or anything other more,but please at least be objective when something is obvious.

 

[Jury]

I will never understand this debate, honestly. It's to the point where, as snobbish as it sounds, I'd argue that if you think Ronaldo is better than Messi, you don't know much about football and are simply swayed by pomp and marketing.

... and a love of men in tight pink hotpants.

 

[Batman]

No,it's not excuse,it's reality.If you watch football,you know that international stuff is different and that a lot of factors is important to win big trophy.Also if you watch Messi vs Ronaldo duels in El Clasico,Messi did better in the most games.You said that you don't give **** about strength of the teams.I understand that people love one player,team or anything other more,but please at least be objective when something is obvious.

So what? I was quite clear that Messi has more often than not had better teammates for club and country than Ronaldo. How many times for club and country has Messi been an underdog? Both Argentina and Barcelona are favorites in virtually every match. Nobody would say that about Portugal. You don't just get to ignore that or come up with some nonsense about international football to excuse Messi's failings. I'm talking about a lack of trophies at the international level with a team that should be winning them. If you can get the plaudits when your team succeeds then you can take the criticism when they don't. Yet to score in an international final. Nobody had to do all this excuse making for Maradona, Pele, Zidane, Original Ronaldo or Ronaldinho. When you are favorites and basically every match you play in at the international level you should win something. Not even WC necessarily but at Copa America. Losing twice to Chile? Not good enough.

 

[Notorious Big]

So what? I was quite clear that Messi has more often than not had better teammates for club and country than Ronaldo. How many times for club and country has Messi been an underdog? Both Argentina and Barcelona are favorites in virtually every match. Nobody would say that about Portugal. You don't just get to ignore that or come up with some nonsense about international football to excuse Messi's failings. I'm talking about a lack of trophies at the international level with a team that should be winning them. If you can get the plaudits when your team succeeds then you can take the criticism when they don't. Yet to score in an international final. Nobody had to do all this excuse making for Maradona, Pele, Zidane, Original Ronaldo or Ronaldinho. When you are favorites and basically every match you play in at the international level you should win something. Not even WC necessarily but at Copa America. Losing twice to Chile? Not good enough.

I don't get it why are you so harsh about that thing.Yeah,Messi didn't win WC,Argentina was beaten by Germany in all WC when Messi played.Germany is better team than Argentina,has better players and one of the best countries in football in history.Can you explain me how England never did something big in international stages with some great players in their team ?

Messi and Ronaldo could both play for some **** country and they would never get close to win it something on international stages.You're too much in those things and others thing somehow aren't important for you.

 

[Wilshere1010]

I hate the fallacy that Messi couldn't/can't carry Argentina.

He ****ing did. He took Argentina to a World Cup final in a tournament where he literally did everything offensively on won player of the tournament. He lost to what is perhaps the most talented national team of the last decade, in a very tight final then went into overtime. Where was Ronaldo during the world cup? Oh right, didn't even get out of the ****ing group stages.

Again, flash and pomp beats all apparently. The team Ronaldo plays on won the Euros, hurray. He didn't even play in the final. But I guess we don't care about context.

Wanna hear a fun stat? Messi has been in 5 finals with Argentina. Ronaldo? 2, ****ing 2, one in which he got injured early.

This is something I don't get either. Messi has basically carried Argentina to finals by himself. Yes Argentina have talented players but for some reason people ignore that Aguero never shows up for them, and Higuain and di Maria are inconsistent.

Ronaldo didn't carry Portugal to the Euro final in the same way, they were pretty lucky to be there to be honest, with the 3rd place qualifying rule. Then he goes off after 10 minutes in the final and gets credit for it. Nothing about that tells me he's been better than Messi internationally.

 

[Batman]

I don't get it why are you so harsh about that thing.Yeah,Messi didn't win WC,Argentina was beaten by Germany in all WC when Messi played.Germany is better team than Argentina,has better players and one of the best countries in football in history.Can you explain me how England never did something big in international stages with some great players in their team ?

Messi and Ronaldo could both play for some **** country and they would never get close to win it something on international stages.You're too much in those things and others thing somehow aren't important for you.

Easily. Because the English press massively overrate English players. Everyone with eyes knows that. Also my hope is that you're aware of England winning in 66 not that it really matters for this argument but you said never won. Now back to the first 2 sentences of you post, do you not get the hypocrisy in casually dismissing Messi's failure as being because of Germany being the better team while ignoring the fact that Portugal are vastly inferior to Argentina? The gap between Argentina and Germany in 2014 was much closer than the one between Argentina and Portugal at that time. It looks hypocritical and weak if strength of squad doesn't matter when it helps Ronaldo's case but all of a sudden becomes all important in defense of Messi.

 

[Notorious Big]

Easily. Because the English press massively overrate English players. Everyone with eyes knows that.

I talk about generation with Gerrard,Rooney,Lampard,Rio and others.They aren't overrated tbh.This team now probably is.

 

[Batman]

I talk about generation with Gerrard,Rooney,Lampard,Rio and others.They aren't overrated tbh.This team now probably is.

Yes. They are. Nobody outside of England had them as real challengers for the WC because it was obvious that their style of play and technical limitations weren't conducive to beating the biggest teams. None of this has anything to do with Messi mind you.

 

[Notorious Big]

Easily. Because the English press massively overrate English players. Everyone with eyes knows that. Also my hope is that you're aware of England winning in 66 not that it really matters for this argument but you said never won. Now back to the first 2 sentences of you post, do you not get the hypocrisy in casually dismissing Messi's failure as being because of Germany being the better team while ignoring the fact that Portugal are vastly inferior to Argentina? The gap between Argentina and Germany in 2014 was much closer than the one between Argentina and Portugal at that time. It looks hypocritical and weak if strength of squad doesn't matter when it helps Ronaldo's case but all of a sudden becomes all important in defense of Messi.

Lol,just because they overrate their players doesn't mean that they're all ****.You can't convice me that those players i mention aren't good and should done better in some competitions.And all this talk came from international football and how is that different from club football.I know they won it,don't know that they were favourites in that time,long ago.

I said what is the case and how Argentina lose.Portugal lost to group stages with Ronaldo.And difference isn't that much as you like to present.Apart from few players in that WC 2014 Argentina wasn't nothing special for me,Messi was main man for them and they were stopped by the best team.Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Dokaka]

Yes. They are. Nobody outside of England had them as real challengers for the WC because it was obvious that their style of play and technical limitations weren't conducive to beating the biggest teams. None of this has anything to do with Messi mind you.

Not true, that generation of players were always considered superb here. And every time they failed, people were struggling to figure out how and why.

 

[Notorious Big]

Yes. They are. Nobody outside of England had them as real challengers for the WC because it was obvious that their style of play and technical limitations weren't conducive to beating the biggest teams. None of this has anything to do with Messi mind you.

Most of these players didn't play outside England,you can never know how good they would be in some other league.

 

[Pseudoexpert]

For Messi to still be without any trophies for Argentina with all of the talent they've got is a mark against him. It just is.

Only if you hate context.

Messi single-handedly got Argentina out of the Group Stage in the World Cup in 2014, in which they made the Final and were very close to winning it all. Higuaín botching every single Final he plays in isn't Messi's fault.

Ronaldo gets praised for winning a trophy with Portugal even though he got injured early in the Final, Messi gets bashed for failing to win one because Higuaín couldn't put the damn ball in the net in several Finals. Just ridiculous.

 

[KingVerse]

Ronaldo is a meanie. He was mad at us for celebrating a draw vs. Portugal and said some hateful things. Just saying...Portugal were lucky to qualify from our group and Ronaldo didn't do much against us.
He didn't even play in the final...so it wasn't him winning it.
As things stand though, I have to admit Ronaldo's teams are winning more than Barca/Argentina, but this will all change next winter as Barca take back Spain and Argentina (hopefully) win the WC. That's literally the only thing people have against Messi.

 

[celestis]

... and a love of men in tight pink hotpants.

You just know Ronaldo is going to have his own reality TV show after football with cross over episodes with the Kardashians.

 

[4R5Emaniac]

You say this like Ronaldo had to play with Joey Barton and Shawn Wright Phillips his career.

The last few years Real has had easily the best midfield in the world with Modric-Kroos being comfortably the best since Xavi-Iniesta declined, the best or 2nd best pair of full backs in Marcelo and Carvajal and full of expensive attacking players of the moment like Bale, Isco, James, Benzema, etc.

When he was at United that phenomenal year he was playing in front of an absolute world class defense led by Ferdinand, Evra and Vidic all in their prime and he was playing with Rooney and Tevez in the best years of their careers which was at a world class level.

Ronaldo has consistently been surrounded with far better sides than Maradona ever was at club level just for one example.

Van Der Sar, Paul ****ing Scholes, Carrick....

 

[4R5Emaniac]

Messi is by far the better footballer. There is no argument. Ronaldo is an unreal athlete. Both have proven to be clutch when it matters.

Messi's problem with Argentina was bad federation, **** coaches, top heavy team with no top midfielders and Gonzalo Higuain. Now with Sampaoli things could change. He led Chile to two consecutive Copa wins so definitely has plenty of pedigree and is a great tactician.

Portugal actually had a better balanced team way back before the Euro win with very good players but no striker but in the Euros they went with Cristiano, the greatest goal scorer in history as the striker and played park the bust football through out the tournament. He barely did much all tournament including the final. That said a win being the captain is a win worthy of respect.

However, I will say this. I have great respect for Messi and am a big fan. He is just the impossible footballer by any measure you can think of and a pure talent. Cristiano has talent of course and gifted with an amazing athletic physique. But his mentality, relentless work ethic, ambition, hunger and perseverance is as mind boggling as Messi's talent. He inspires me and earns my respect over and over again despite me not exactly being a fan. Few people let alone professional footballers or sportsmen can match him in that regard.

 

[bingobob]

Portugal winning the Euros was a great feat but they only got out of the groups because three teams could get through. They came third behind Hungary and Iceland.