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Mesut Özil: 2019/20 Performances

Why Isn't Özil Playing?


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kash2

More Consistent Than Arteta
So you agree he has these huge flaws in his game.
We are judging him based on what he is, a fair judgement on his strengths and weaknesses.
His fanboys are judging him on how he would be, and how he should be.

no you are judging him as a person not a footballer. As a footballer he has weaknesses but immense talent too. Being a fan of beautiful football, moments of magic and sublime moves doesnt mean that we dont see his defensive weakness or his reluctance to try the risky stuff. He plays percentage football and the haters pretend not to see him moving nonstop and cutting out passing lanes.
 

CaseUteinberger

Established Member

Country: Sweden
I need someone to lock this thread, I get triggered everytime there’s a new post. Its like crack this thread. Always need more.
This thread is something else for sure. How we can all see the same thing and come to absolutely opposite conclusions.

One thing I like is to come here to relitigate the 2018 WC. Wish we could have a Löw thread also. I’d be camping out there all the time. As much as I dislike Özil, I ****ing hate that guy! That nose picking, crotch scratching, no good piece of **** has cost Germany at least one if not two tournament wins. 2014 was won despite him and not thanks to him.
 

kash2

More Consistent Than Arteta
Özil had railed up the majority of the German public by taking selfies with sneaky dictator Erdogan. You are always gonna get some far right nutters that always take advantage of the situation.
It’s like the BLM protests. You have some peaceful protestors but then you get these opportunists (Rioters, looters, anarchists etc) who just muddy the whole thing.
But sneakly the Özil followers saw an opportunity to conflate the Far Right Racists racism with the genuine sense of disregard Özil had shown to the hands that fed him. So you all just labelled everyone in Germany a racist. It’s called throwing red herrings or deflecting. Smh

I am an African guy (East African) and have travelled across the West. Lived in the US for 2 years between 2009-11. Been to Eastern Europe etc. So i have seen things.
The US is much more behind on race issues compared to Western Europe. In my opinion Liberal Europeans have bent over backwards to be as accommodating to us newcomers and minority groups as possible. They keep fighting for all kinds of equality etc. They are not perfect as we all aren’t. But to buy into Özil’s propaganda that the whole German population, Football association and German football team are all racist nazis is funny. All because Özil stepped into sh!t and refused to rectify it or take responsibility for himself. Smh

What gets to me is the Özil fans that never see anything wrong with whatever he does. Posing with Erdogan was too egotistical and prideful from him. He refused to acknowledge that the German public was hurt by that. The country that gave him and his family refuge. But stuck a middle finger at them once you made it.
Gundogan acknowledged his actions had caused a sense of betrayal and hurt to the German public, he came out straight away to defuse the whole situation.
But like always, Özil is the “Never wrong. Never apologise don”. He just continued his social media propaganda playing victim as always. And you his avid loyal followers just find ways to justify and rationalise his actions. There is always a but with you guys. Özil was in the wrong and railed up emotions in Germany. Went even farther by rubbing it in more on his wedding. Making Erdogan his Best-Man.
It’s always “Me Me and only Me” with Özil. Imagine.

The way he acted with Emery and Ljungberg. No respect whatsoever for anyone apart from himself. But as always, he played the victim and you guys ate it up.

During the lockdown the squad was asked to take a small temporary cut on their wages. As always Özil’s ego was too big. Refused and doubles down. Then as always turned to his social media propaganda and to play victim.

Instead of trying to be a bit nuanced he just doubles down no matter what situation. He just seems to not be a team player. It’s all about my way or no way.

He is a very divisive figure wherever he goes.
Özil has such a massive ego and i think it’s all because of you his followers. You just worship, praise and dot on him too much. You have absolutely convinced him that he is always right and it’s always someone else’s faut for his own shortcomings. You have massaged his Ego for so long that he has absolutely bought into his own hype.
He always right no matter what and always the victim.

Özil has a right to be an idiot or to be a rightwinger or a conservative or a strongman worshipper. All immigrants need not have to conform to "good immigrant" stereotype. I dislike Erdogan, but he is a legitimate political figure of same ethnicity as Özil, and if Özil like some other ethnic turks admires him, he has the right to do so.
 

roz

Fake News Merchant
This thread is something else for sure. How we can all see the same thing and come to absolutely opposite conclusions.

One thing I like is to come here to relitigate the 2018 WC. Wish we could have a Löw thread also. I’d be camping out there all the time. As much as I dislike Özil, I ****ing hate that guy! That nose picking, crotch scratching, no good piece of **** has cost Germany at least one if not two tournament wins. 2014 was won despite him and not thanks to him.
If I remember correctly lots of people wanted him to take over here. That would have been fun :lol:
 

Football Manager

Copy & Paste Merchant
no you are judging him as a person not a footballer. As a footballer he has weaknesses but immense talent too. Being a fan of beautiful football, moments of magic and sublime moves doesnt mean that we dont see his defensive weakness or his reluctance to try the risky stuff. He plays percentage football and the haters pretend not to see him moving nonstop and cutting out passing lanes.
Since when did I judge him as a person? Which comment of mine criticised him that is not about footballing reasons?
I send a video for people to compare him to other passers. Compare his passing to others passing. And Özil fans are so afraid to even make a comment on that.
 

Monstar-Gunn4r

Established Member
thats why we are able to buy them and richer clubs pass them over.

Were you following football back then? Cazorla turned down Real and Barca didn't want him at the time. Malaga was meant to be a new City but was just another get quick rich scheme that wasnt backed, so we picked him up on the cheap when they were collapsing (same story with Monreal). It was a very fortunate turn of events for us where most of the other top clubs weren't spending or already had a good midfield and Arsenal was still a big name.
 

razörist

Soft With The Ladies, Hard With The Mes

Country: Morocco
Of course that is racism and should be condemned. But that did not come from the team members or Löw I am sure without even checking.

The quotes are from “people in Germany” who ever those are. In a country of +80m people there will be enough racists I am sure. Not sure what that is supposed to prove? That some German football fans are racist? If so well done you for proving something anyone with a functioning ear can hear in many pubs and terraces around the world.
Yes yes downplay it, don’t mention the high ranking DFB officials or journalists. Classic.
 

Notorious Big

Drunka In Friend Zone
The Xhaka thread disagrees :lol:

Those two threads :lol:

duWc3tt.gif
 

A_G

Rice Rice Baby 🎼🎵
A-M CL Draft Campeón 🏆
Özil had railed up the majority of the German public by taking selfies with sneaky dictator Erdogan. You are always gonna get some far right nutters that always take advantage of the situation.
It’s like the BLM protests. You have some peaceful protestors but then you get these opportunists (Rioters, looters, anarchists etc) who just muddy the whole thing.
But sneakly the Özil followers saw an opportunity to conflate the Far
What gets to me is the Özil fans that never see anything wrong with whatever he does. Posing with Erdogan was too egotistical and prideful from him. He refused to acknowledge that the German public was hurt by that. The country that gave him and his family refuge. But stuck a middle finger at them once you made it.
Gundogan acknowledged his actions had caused a sense of betrayal and hurt to the German public, he came out straight away to defuse the whole situation.
But like always, Özil is the “Never wrong. Never apologise don”. He just continued his social media propaganda playing victim as always. And you his avid loyal followers just find ways to justify and rationalise his actions. There is always a but with you guys. Özil was in the wrong and railed up emotions in Germany. Went even farther by rubbing it in more on his wedding. Making Erdogan his Best-Man.
It’s always “Me Me and only Me” with Özil. Imagine.

Right Racists racism with the genuine sense of disregard Özil had shown to the hands that fed him. So you all just labelled everyone in Germany a racist. It’s called throwing red herrings or deflecting. Smh
I didn't say all Germans are racist, far from it. The people abusing Özil were a minority but they were a vocal one, which is why they get so much attention.

BTW Gundogan had to make a statement because he called Erdogan "my president".
I am an African guy (East African) and have travelled across the West. Lived in the US for 2 years between 2009-11. Been to Eastern Europe etc. So i have seen things.
The US is much more behind on race issues compared to Western Europe. In my opinion Liberal Europeans have bent over backwards to be as accommodating to us newcomers and minority groups as possible. They keep fighting for all kinds of equality etc. They are not perfect as we all aren’t. But to buy into Özil’s propaganda that the whole German population, Football association and German football team are all racist nazis is funny. All because Özil stepped into sh!t and refused to rectify it or take responsibility for himself. Smh
If anything is a red herring, it's the Erdogan stuff. He was getting abuse on the basis of his ethnicity and religion long before that, in fact the "ID card German" jibe is something I remember from the 2010 WC. He was at the time the face of the second-generation immigrants like Khedira, Boateng etc.

And again, it's not about the whole of Germany or the DFB being racist. It's about both the outright prejudice and the unconscious bias Özil has faced in his time playing for Germany. Nobody can honestly say that he gets the benefit of the doubt in the same way as Kroos, Neuer etc.

I don't know if he agrees politically with Erdogan, I wouldn't assume that a picture with someone means you endorse everything they stand for. The best man stuff for me is irrelevant to this discussion because it happened after the fallout post WC.
 

razörist

Soft With The Ladies, Hard With The Mes

Country: Morocco
I didn't say all Germans are racist, far from it. The people abusing Özil were a minority but they were a vocal one, which is why they get so much attention.

BTW Gundogan had to make a statement because he called Erdogan "my president".

If anything is a red herring, it's the Erdogan stuff. He was getting abuse on the basis of his ethnicity and religion long before that, in fact the "ID card German" jibe is something I remember from the 2010 WC. He was at the time the face of the second-generation immigrants like Khedira, Boateng etc.

And again, it's not about the whole of Germany or the DFB being racist. It's about both the outright prejudice and the unconscious bias Özil has faced in his time playing for Germany. Nobody can honestly say that he gets the benefit of the doubt in the same way as Kroos, Neuer etc.

I don't know if he agrees politically with Erdogan, I wouldn't assume that a picture with someone means you endorse everything they stand for. The best man stuff for me is irrelevant to this discussion because it happened after the fallout post WC.
Nobody said **** about RB Kimmich playing right wing leaving Germany exposed and countered all the time. Wonder why nobody attacked young Joshua Kimmich from Rottweil?!
 
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kash2

More Consistent Than Arteta
You're fighting a losing battle trying to reason with Özil's acolytes. One of them even called Arteta a b!tch a few weeks ago because he didn't start Özil vs Brighton :rofl: :lol:
thats what fans do..we get emotional about
Were you following football back then? Cazorla turned down Real and Barca didn't want him at the time. Malaga was meant to be a new City but was just another get quick rich scheme that wasnt backed, so we picked him up on the cheap when they were collapsing (same story with Monreal). It was a very fortunate turn of events for us where most of the other top clubs weren't spending or already had a good midfield and Arsenal was still a big name.


ok... amend my post to add "or we have to be fortunate"
 

Monstar-Gunn4r

Established Member
thats what fans do..we get emotional about



ok... amend my post to add "or we have to be fortunate"

Not necessarily more than any other club, each team can only afford so many players for positions. Saliba for example had no other top club in for him but most other clubs had other targets or priorities. We may be going through a rough patch but we are still one of the top clubs in the world and have more financial backing than 99.99% of clubs, it is possible to identify top class targets especially the younger ones.

I'd say getting Martinelli was fortunate because he was scouted brought in to be looked at and then passed over.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
Of course racism exists. What silly question is that? Don’t try to create a straw man and then argue against that.

The point I am making is that Özil deserved a lot of criticism for how he went into the 2018 tournament and how poorly he performed once there. When he was faced with criticism he started to try to deflect instead of facing up to it.

I have said this before on the forum, if you look how Gündoğan dealt with the criticism you see a completely different reaction both from him and the fans, media etc.

I am sure that there is racism against players, including against Turkish and Muslim players, but think black players are subject to much more of that than say Özil. To start shouting racism in this case is misguided in my view. Özil is in this bed he is, because he made it himself.
Straw man implies I’m trying to detract from an original argument but there is no original argument for me.

I saw someone say that Özil was treated in a certain way by the German FA (which he definitely was). You responded by calling them deluded.

So I questioned you, asking if you thought racism wasn’t a factor in how he was treated.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
Özil used to be good, Özil was good enough for everyone to see. After a while Özil was still good but the squad around him was poor and being the type of player he is, he looked poor.

Now Özil is poor, the squad is poor and his wages are killing us. But certain people are coming in this thread trying to rub it in other peoples faces that Özil isn’t good as if we don’t all support the same club. Those certain people are weird and need to get a life.

/thread
 

DanDare

Emoji Merchant and Believer-In-Chief
Trusted ⭐

Player:Saliba
Whole thread should be deleted except the last post from Trilly

Would save a lot of anguish and also summarises the thread and Ozils Arsenal career nicely.
 

CaseUteinberger

Established Member

Country: Sweden
Straw man implies I’m trying to detract from an original argument but there is no original argument for me.

I saw someone say that Özil was treated in a certain way by the German FA (which he definitely was). You responded by calling them deluded.

So I questioned you, asking if you thought racism wasn’t a factor in how he was treated.
Are you not reading my posts, or are you just being lazy and/or obtuse?

But to make it simple and clear: I am sure there were racists saying things about Özil before and after the 2018 WC.

Was racism, in my view, the main reason he was criticized for meeting with Erdugan before the WC or for performing poorly at the tournament? No, I don’t think so. This does not mean that I think it wasn’t a reason for some to say or write racist things.

Hope above explains.

PS. Yes, you created a straw man argument. You just do not have the character to admit it and move on.
 
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