Mesut Özil: Time to Move Ön?

[YeahBee]

One of the few if not the only one in our team that can do something magical and sublime

Game winning stuff out of nowhere

That is the reason I stand behind him

 

[Arsenal1508]

He is paid like a Fifa World Player of the Year talent, but Arsenal simply has just Axel Witsel/Hulk him.

Nobody but us would have paid the sort of wage packet he is on. Only a team in China or Middle East maybe.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Nobody but us would have paid the sort of wage packet he is on. Only a team in China or Middle East maybe.

Kind of sad to be perfectly honest...

 

[Arsenio Venger]

Kind of sad to be perfectly honest...

The last two posts before this one? Agreed.

You’d think two games would be considered a small sample size. Some of the revisionist history here is baffling.

 

[Maybe]

Let's hope that he can start really getting back to his best and producing it consistently

He can't get back to something that he never was. He wasn't the best at Real Madrid or consistent enough, so they bought Modric and sell the guy to us. His performances were always questioned even at Madrid so this is not specific to Arsenal fans. If you asked true Real fans when we were buying Özil, they were just confused about him like we are here, saying something like "sometimes good but meh overall".
He never was and never will be consistent great player, just a flashy youtube player that will pump great stats on weaker teams.
I'm still happy to have him here, but surely not in every game and on this crazy contract that he has. As I already said, this is all on Wenger and the management and Özil just took advantage of their poor work over the last 5 years.

 

[Maybe]

One of the few if not the only one in our team that can do something magical and sublime

Game winning stuff out of nowhere

That is the reason I stand behind him

I'm not sure if that is praise for Özil or your statement of how poor this squad is.

 

[fc honka]

He can't get back to something that he never was. He wasn't the best at Real Madrid or consistent enough, so they bought Modric and sell the guy to us. His performances were always questioned even at Madrid so this is not specific to Arsenal fans. If you asked true Real fans when we were buying Özil, they were just confused about him like we are here, saying something like "sometimes good but meh overall".

I have seen peculiar posts in this thread but this really stands out. Maybe you should try to find out some facts before you write this nonsense.

-Modric was NEVER bought to replace Özil, they have a totally different role in the team
-almost all Real fans loved Özil and they also showed that during matches and still after he was gone
-Özil was very often great not good. Overall meh, wow....

I know stats are meaningfull here only if it suits your agenda but check out some of his from his time at Real

 

[Maybe]

I have seen peculiar posts in this thread but this really stands out. Maybe you should try to find out some facts before you write this nonsense.

-Modric was NEVER bought to replace Özil, they have a totally different role in the team
-almost all Real fans loved Özil and they also showed that during matches and still after he was gone
-Özil was very often great not good. Overall meh, wow....

I know stats are meaningfull here only if it suits your agenda but check out some of his from his time at Real

I understand you know Modric for only few years but I will give you a few hints:
Modric was advanced playmaker for big part of his career in Dinamo, NT and to some extent Sp**s, so your argument that they play different roles is legit only for the last 4-5 years. When he came to Madrid he was often benched because he and Özil didn't work very well together, and afcorse, it didn't took much for them to realize who was the superior player and who should be sold to Arsenal. This is something Wenger never understood, even if players don't play in the same position, they just don't work very well together and that is very often case with Özil who has some great attributes but is flawed in many other areas.
Most of Madrid fans are more plasitc than Man City fans, that's why I've said real fans who watch every minute of Real games throughout the season, not some internet guys that will look at highlights/youtube/statistics and El Clasico and come up with cr*p with how many assists Özil had. Their opinion was and still is that he was good sometimes but not that important for the team, and you have to understand that Primera is most of the time like training session for them with the exception of few derby games. That's why he was often good/great (whatever you like) but when he needed to push the team he was never there. At the time, Barcelona had some of the best midfield players in football history and it was reasonable from Real to discard him and add more complete players to their squad.

And yeah, I already said that I'm fine with Özil here, I'm not fine with how he is being used. I'm not trying to describe him here as a bad player or state that everything that is wrong with Arsenal or that was wrong with Madrid is his fault, I'm saying there are better players out there and that's something that his hardcore fans can't accept here easily.
Next time you come here with caps "NEVER" and stuff like my post being the worst in 600 pages, do some basic research before that. Not saying my posts are great, but I'm trying to be realistic as possible here

 

[Mark Tobias]

What I will say.. and this applies in all the threads we have massive fanboys.. is that the true greats of this game are seldom questioned. Henry, Pele, Maradona, Zidane, Makelele, Lampard. To name just a few. How many people debate their greatness and influence on the game... Hard to picture having a thread like this (or xhaka's/ramsey's) for any of those names.

 

[El Granit-Coq]

What I will say.. and this applies in all the threads we have massive fanboys.. is that the true greats of this game are seldom questioned. Henry, Pele, Maradona, Zidane, Makelele, Lampard. To name just a few. How many people debate their greatness and influence on the game... Hard to picture having a thread like this (or xhaka's/ramsey's) for any of those names.

When they were playing, people did... A lot. Can't speak for Maradona or Pele as I was too young.

 

[Mark Tobias]

When they were playing, people did... A lot. Can't speak for Maradona or Pele as I was too young.

Not this divisive though, not a chance. I'm talking their own fans. Not opposition fans who will obviously find fault where they can.

 

[vijay]

He can't get back to something that he never was. He wasn't the best at Real Madrid or consistent enough, so they bought Modric and sell the guy to us. His performances were always questioned even at Madrid so this is not specific to Arsenal fans. If you asked true Real fans when we were buying Özil, they were just confused about him like we are here, saying something like "sometimes good but meh overall".
He never was and never will be consistent great player, just a flashy youtube player that will pump great stats on weaker teams.
I'm still happy to have him here, but surely not in every game and on this crazy contract that he has. As I already said, this is all on Wenger and the management and Özil just took advantage of their poor work over the last 5 years.

the new contract is definitely the work of the 3 wise men...and cannot be dumped on Wengers door.

 

[El Granit-Coq]

Not this divisive though, not a chance. I'm talking their own fans. Not opposition fans who will obviously find fault where they can.

Players face more criticism from their own fans though... Lampard and Gerrard faced quite a lot of criticism when they were at their respective clubs, especially Gerrard who some saw as standing in the way of the next generation.

Also, we seem a lot more critical of players now... The availability of stats and replays gives us a lot more to discuss and that in itself is like opening Pandora's box (stats can be skewed to aid a narrative).

 

[Mark Tobias]

Players face more criticism from their own fans though... Lampard and Gerrard faced quite a lot of criticism when they were at their respective clubs, especially Gerrard who some saw as standing in the way of the next generation.

Also, we seem a lot more critical of players now... The availability of stats and replays gives us a lot more to discuss and that in itself is like opening Pandora's box (stats can be skewed to aid a narrative).

Wow, not sure what Chelsea fans and Liverpool fans you hang with but the ones I know idolised Gerrard like a God and wanted Frank's bollocks in their mouths respectively.

Think you will find that those slating Gerrard and Lampard are few and far between. Never even heard this stance before!

 

[TheArsenalis]

I understand you know Modric for only few years but I will give you a few hints:
Modric was advanced playmaker for big part of his career in Dinamo, NT and to some extent Sp**s, so your argument that they play different roles is legit only for the last 4-5 years. When he came to Madrid he was often benched because he and Özil didn't work very well together, and afcorse, it didn't took much for them to realize who was the superior player and who should be sold to Arsenal. This is something Wenger never understood, even if players don't play in the same position, they just don't work very well together and that is very often case with Özil who has some great attributes but is flawed in many other areas.
Most of Madrid fans are more plasitc than Man City fans, that's why I've said real fans who watch every minute of Real games throughout the season, not some internet guys that will look at highlights/youtube/statistics and El Clasico and come up with cr*p with how many assists Özil had. Their opinion was and still is that he was good sometimes but not that important for the team, and you have to understand that Primera is most of the time like training session for them with the exception of few derby games. That's why he was often good/great (whatever you like) but when he needed to push the team he was never there. At the time, Barcelona had some of the best midfield players in football history and it was reasonable from Real to discard him and add more complete players to their squad.

And yeah, I already said that I'm fine with Özil here, I'm not fine with how he is being used. I'm not trying to describe him here as a bad player or state that everything that is wrong with Arsenal or that was wrong with Madrid is his fault, I'm saying there are better players out there and that's something that his hardcore fans can't accept here easily.
Next time you come here with caps "NEVER" and stuff like my post being the worst in 600 pages, do some basic research before that. Not saying my posts are great, but I'm trying to be realistic as possible here

Bra lol. Özil was sold. Because there were plenty of Özil around but very few modric. Its not because one was superior.
Oh and Özil wasnt only good at madrid he was badass everywhere. But in his last few season here we needed more than what he giving because we are struggling overall. He is not terrible in anyway. But right now he is being dead weight.

 

[celestis]

You could also make a fine list of big games where he was absolutely horrible. Considering the number of big games you play in PL and CL, your argument in his defense doesn't count for much. What I don't understand is why our managers play Özil in every match. Many times before the game you could tell that Özil will struggle and yet he still plays, making things even worse for him and the club.

Could put a list of big games where Alexis was horrible , we play Özil every match because there are two players in our team who could receive and hold on to the ball on the half turn that is Özil and Iwobi . To play possession football you need those players .

 

[celestis]

What I will say.. and this applies in all the threads we have massive fanboys.. is that the true greats of this game are seldom questioned. Henry, Pele, Maradona, Zidane, Makelele, Lampard. To name just a few. How many people debate their greatness and influence on the game... Hard to picture having a thread like this (or xhaka's/ramsey's) for any of those names.

Obviously he's not at that level otherwise he wouldn't have joined Arsenal in the first place . What the hell are you putting Lampard in this company ?

 

[A_G]

Again his best form in an Arsenal shirt was last season while he was playing for his contract and he wasnt assisting and scoring. What are the point of these stats? If you judged Xavi and Iniesta on goals and assists you'd think they were awful midfielders yet they are at the heartbeat of everything good as Özil was last season.

The point of those stats is that Özil is a #10 who should be judged on his end product. That's the sort of player he's been since he moved to Real, when Mourinho turned him into a final third metronome. I wouldn't compare him to Xavi or Iniesta because we don't judge a 6 or 8 by the same metric.

And during that run last season, he was scoring or assisting in a lot of those games. Wouldn't call that his best form either, his 15/16 performance was one of the best creative seasons the PL has seen.

Wait you're not expecting the far and away highest earner on the squad, second highest paid player in the league, to be a difference maker/match-winner? What the **** do they pay him so much for?

That's not what I said. He should be making the difference in big games, but if he ends up not doing so it doesn't necessarily mean he was **** or went missing. I said you can't expect him to single-handedly drag a team back the way somelike Vieira would, his job is to be decisive in the final third. If he doesn't do that, then by all means criticise him. Also I wouldn't have paid him £350,000 a week either.

What do you feel the expectations should be then? Play well when everyone else is playing well? Because sure as hell nobody else past or present is judged by that context, just Özil somehow. Again he doesnt have to score or assists every game to be a difference maker, but I dont think many were shocked by his City and Chelsea performances or by seeing him fall off the rails for large stretches of the season. Sorry but I want him to prove to be decisive in the league week in week out regardless if its a top team or not, he's paid like he should be, not every once in a great while vs the Bulgarian champions in the EL.

I expect him to create for the team and score/assist when the team is dominating the game. If we have 65% possession and he doesn't create, I'd be disappointed with that output considering how much of the ball he would presumably see. In a game like Man City last week or the two consecutive games against them last season, I don't expect much from him or any creative player because you just don't see the ball against teams like that.

Against Chelsea in the league he played deeper and was brilliant, I wish Wenger had tried that more often to help him get involved in these kinds of games. Once it became apparent Özil was having trouble influencing some of these games I feel Wenger could have implemented more tactical tweaks like that to help him.

Also not sure how you believe that Cesc in his prime here wasn't raising the team's game and proving to be a match-winner.

I'm talking about the big games, there were plenty of matches against the likes of United and Chelsea where he was helpless because the team around him collapsed. He couldn't pull the team up by himself against the top 2 teams and it would've been unreasonable to expect that.

 

[krengon]

The point of those stats is that Özil is a #10 who should be judged on his end product. That's the sort of player he's been since he moved to Real, when Mourinho turned him into a final third metronome. I wouldn't compare him to Xavi or Iniesta because we don't just a 6 or 8 by the same metric.

And during that run last season, he was scoring or assisting in a lot of those games. Wouldn't call that his best form either, his 15/16 performance was one of the best creative seasons the PL has seen.


That's not what I said. He should be making the difference in big games, but if he ends up not doing so it doesn't necessarily mean he was **** or went missing. I said you can't expect him to single-handedly drag a team back the way somelike Vieira would, his job is to be decisive in the final third. If he doesn't do that, then by all means criticise him. Also I wouldn't have paid him £350,000 a week either.

I expect him to create for the team and score/assist when the team is dominating the game. If we have 65% possession and he doesn't create, I'd be disappointed with that output considering how much of the ball he would presumably see. In a game like Man City last week or the two consecutive games against them last season, I don't expect much from him or any creative player because you just don't see the ball against teams like that.

Against Chelsea in the league he played deeper and was brilliant, I wish Wenger had tried that more often to help him get involved in these kinds of games. Once it became apparent Özil was having trouble influencing some of these games I feel Wenger could have implemented more tactical tweaks like that to help him.

I'm talking about the big games, there were plenty of matches against the likes of United and Chelsea where he was helpless because the team around him collapsed. He couldn't pull the team up by himself against the top 2 teams and it would've been unreasonable to expect that.

Great post!

There has been games he has been poor( bad touches, poor passing, easily dispossessed etc), but there has also been games where we haven't managed to get him involved or put him in a position to succeed and that's down to team failure(and then you can start talking about tactics and if he should have a different role etc).
If you look back at our best big game performances the last few years, Özil was pulling the strings in most/all of them.

 

[Mark Tobias]

Could put a list of big games where Alexis was horrible , we play Özil every match because there are two players in our team who could receive and hold on to the ball on the half turn that is Özil and Iwobi . To play possession football you need those players .

Surely Mihki is capable of this?