Mesut Özil: Time to Move Ön?

[OnlyOne]

Just seen this on twitter, all competitions. thoughts?

 

[Arsenio Venger]

Just seen this on twitter, all competitions. thoughts?

Grass always greener on other side

Silva ain’t **** and he chokes on the national team all the time

 

[OnlyOne]

Grass always greener on other side

Silva ain’t **** and he chokes on the national team all the time

Tbf I only put it up as a joke really, awful way to show stats but still!

 

[Fewtch]

Just seen this on twitter, all competitions. thoughts?

Men lie, women lie...

 

[James Bond]

The point of those stats is that Özil is a #10 who should be judged on his end product. That's the sort of player he's been since he moved to Real, when Mourinho turned him into a final third metronome. I wouldn't compare him to Xavi or Iniesta because we don't judge a 6 or 8 by the same metric.

And during that run last season, he was scoring or assisting in a lot of those games. Wouldn't call that his best form either, his 15/16 performance was one of the best creative seasons the PL has seen.

Sorry for the confusion, the context to my reply is I feel Özil was at his best for us during the stretch last season where he wasnt assisting or scoring or even racking up "chance created" stats like in 2015/16 which you champion, but being involved throughout/running games. Due to this I chose Xavi and Iniesta as examples midfielders, who again like Özil last season, can be involved with all the good the team does, even when the team is bad, and it wont show up on the stat sheet.

That's not what I said. He should be making the difference in big games, but if he ends up not doing so it doesn't necessarily mean he was **** or went missing. I said you can't expect him to single-handedly drag a team back the way somelike Vieira would, his job is to be decisive in the final third. If he doesn't do that, then by all means criticise him. Also I wouldn't have paid him £350,000 a week either.

But he is paid 350k p/w though. He is the second highest paid player in the league, so again why shouldnt he be then held to a higher standard? The double standards is the **** that bothers me. Pogba/Morata/Lukaku/Sterling/Stones/Soldado/Carroll/Torres/Xhaka/Mustafi etc got back as far as you like have to live up to their pricetags when A-M/world football judges their performances. Theo/Sanchez/Falcao/RVP/Rooney etc have/had to live up to their wages, but Özil is exempt from both?

Özil is protected like no other. You come to the PL with big fanfare/and a record transfer fee you get judged. You get a load of wages, you get judged. Hell at any job in the world if you are highly paid you get ****ing judged to a higher standard to perform. That's what they ****ing pay you more for! But not with Özil because loads of supporters never wanted to accept he could possibly not be what we needed at the time or now and our record signing could very well not be all that hes cracked up to be. Other clubs can deal with big money signing not working out for whatever reason but Arsenal supporters simply cant.

I expect him to create for the team and score/assist when the team is dominating the game. If we have 65% possession and he doesn't create, I'd be disappointed with that output considering how much of the ball he would presumably see. In a game like Man City last week or the two consecutive games against them last season, I don't expect much from him or any creative player because you just don't see the ball against teams like that.

Thought the general thought was he needed pace, Giroud was holding him back and all that (yet not when he was at his best in your eyes), and Özil was one of the best counter attacking midfielders around? That is what I read on here for YEARS! Now we might have signed the fasted CF in world football, so why can he make a difference in games we dont see the ball as much?

Again it also sounds like you dont expect him to do anything against the top teams which I think is incredibly sad and it speaks volumes that you're describing the face of our club, a supposed top team ourselves, that you don't expect him to have any influence on proceedings when we play anyone decent.

Against Chelsea in the league he played deeper and was brilliant, I wish Wenger had tried that more often to help him get involved in these kinds of games. Once it became apparent Özil was having trouble influencing some of these games I feel Wenger could have implemented more tactical tweaks like that to help him.

@ help him get involved. Wenger is gone and as we saw last weekend or the end of last season he gets involved when he feels like it. Tactics and starting position mean **** all without application (For another example see our CM/B2B/CF Aaron Ramsey). A manager can play you where he wants, tell you what he wants done, but at the end of the day its up to you to do something about it when you're on the pitch. I hate Ramsey as a footballer, but I give him credit for always trying to make things happen regardless of the situation or the type of game hes having. Thankfully we now have a manager that will yank you if you aren't even trying though as we saw with Özil over the weekend.

I'm talking about the big games, there were plenty of matches against the likes of United and Chelsea where he was helpless because the team around him collapsed. He couldn't pull the team up by himself against the top 2 teams and it would've been unreasonable to expect that.

I was talking about both. Özil is paid top dollar week in week out, so I'd expect him to perform week in week out.

Just for clarification off your earlier reply, do you believe we have a chance against anyone we come up against with Özil or are you merely hopeful we dont lose? That to me is the difference between to two (Cesc and Özil or really to Özil and any other top/hell even merely good player we've had). Özil instills 0 belief in me to be the difference (ironically the name of an ad campaign hes was one of the faces for with Adidas ) when we need our star to raise up and elevate us. IMO we arent getting anywhere as a club with Özil being such an integral piece of the equation.

Özil is marketable, he is a brand as his fans are rabid (see A-M/Twitter), and him still being here and on the wages hes on all scream of another business decision vs a purely footballing one by this club (especially with Adidas apparently coming to AFC next season/the club trying to save face to not lose both its stars in one year/Wenger showing he was past his best).

This isnt 2 games of frustration with Özil like some believe, this is 5 years worth, but since his signed his contract its been taking the piss out of me watching him and watching supposed Arsenal supporters try and defend what he's giving the club back for their return on investment.

 

[James Bond]

Just seen this on twitter, all competitions. thoughts?

Grass always greener on other side

Silva ain’t **** and he chokes on the national team all the time

All I see somewhat pointless "all comps" stats which show Özil's numbers being propped up while playing in a two team league, while playing in a mainly facilitator role, with a absolute end product machine/one of the best player of all time in prime Ronaldo (whose production didnt trail off once Özil left Madrid).

Either that graphic should make you think of the context of stats painting Özil as the "best #10 in the world" by Opta or whatnot as Ronaldo was a monster before and after Özil in terms of production (and the team was more successful once Özil was moved on) or you should expect more from Özil while hes been at AFC as hes not been as good as he was in the past and hes now in what should be his prime.

 

[KrissKringle]

I was talking about both. Özil is paid top dollar week in week out, so I'd expect him to perform week in week out.

Not even Messi and Ronaldo perform week in week out, don't be silly. They're only human, after all.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Wait do people actually rate Silva higher than Özil?

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

All I see somewhat pointless "all comps" stats which show Özil's numbers being propped up while playing in a two team league, while playing in a mainly facilitator role, with a absolute end product machine/one of the best player of all time in prime Ronaldo (whose production didnt trail off once Özil left Madrid).

Either that graphic should make you think of the context of stats painting Özil as the "best #10 in the world" by Opta or whatnot as Ronaldo was a monster before and after Özil in terms of production (and the team was more successful once Özil was moved on) or you should expect more from Özil while hes been at AFC as hes not been as good as he was in the past and hes now in what should be his prime.

Yupp and Silva played with bunch of losers at City. I mean that Aguero? Nobody.

 

[James Bond]

Yupp and Silva played with bunch of losers at City. I mean that Aguero? Nobody.

Özil played with a prime Giroud.

I was merely pointing out that Ronaldo is one of the best to ever do it, something that you subscribe to if I'm not mistaken, so putting up godly number while playing with a football god is hardly surprising if your job is being a supplier. Agureo isnt on the same level as Ronaldo despite being very very good himself when not injured, but that's besides the point as again I know Özil can be amazing when not filling up the stat sheet which I've said time and again and stats, especially "all comp" stats at that, can be misleading when trying to measure someone's overall influence on games.

 

[TakeChillPill]

Özil is probably the top three most technically gifted player to play for arsenal in the Wenger era. DB10, JvP and Özil. Some of his touches in a game is a reason to love watching football.

However, I want to see him show a bit of toughness, pressing isn't difficult. He runs but he doesn't spirit when closing, those small details can be the difference in wining the ball ball or the opposition passing the ball around you.

And before people say...well Özil's job isn't to defend. Just look at what Pep did with augero. Going from a lazy defensively but an attacking force, to now a pressing machine where, his new added aggression and persistence has improved his overall game.

I really hope he allows his bollcks to grow a little bigger and not worry about sticking one to the opposition when pressing.

At the top level there are fine margins...but remember even messi pressed his 24caret gold arse off under Pep. It can be done!

 

[blaze_of_glory]

Been staying out of this thread for my own mental health, just seen the utter savagery from @American_Gooner over the past few pages. Complete destruction

 

[OnlyOne]

Great post!

There has been games he has been poor( bad touches, poor passing, easily dispossessed etc), but there has also been games where we haven't managed to get him involved or put him in a position to succeed and that's down to team failure(and then you can start talking about tactics and if he should have a different role etc).
If you look back at our best big game performances the last few years, Özil was pulling the strings in most/all of them.

Yeah exactly, I've seen the guy have to drop deep SO many times to get himself involved and try make things happen, but obviously he's not trying...? He'll get criticised no matter what.

'If Özil isn't going to score or assist he should at least work hard for the team in defence'. Did exactly that against City and at time Chelsea too. I don't want my number 10 defending, he shouldn't have too, I want him up the pitch ready to help the counter attack. Yes I agree his touch has been off and passing sometimes as well, but you can't say he was invisible.

Ugh hate arguing about Özil. Obviously I want him to be better, but I want the whole team to be better and with that Özil will get better.

 

[krackpot]

What I will say.. and this applies in all the threads we have massive fanboys.. is that the true greats of this game are seldom questioned. Henry, Pele, Maradona, Zidane, Makelele, Lampard. To name just a few. How many people debate their greatness and influence on the game... Hard to picture having a thread like this (or xhaka's/ramsey's) for any of those names.

you just wanted to find out if they read your posts, rite?

Lampard is a PL great, but not a legend.

 

[Mark Tobias]

you just wanted to find out if they read your posts, rite?

Lampard is a PL great, but not a legend.

Yup, you and AG passed the rest of you failed miserably and I am highly disappointed

 

[Kobi]

The point of those stats is that Özil is a #10 who should be judged on his end product. That's the sort of player he's been since he moved to Real, when Mourinho turned him into a final third metronome. I wouldn't compare him to Xavi or Iniesta because we don't judge a 6 or 8 by the same metric.

I have been calling for him to be played deeper for a while, I don't see why he can't play the role Iniesta played and Silva now occupies in a 433.
His characteristics are similar.
Firstly he is terrible in front of goal, shoots like a girl, look at his penalties. We won't be losing out on much there.
Secondly he is our best player, he should be on the ball more, the easier it is for our pretty limited defence and midfield to get the ball to him the better.
Thirdly he often comes deep to get the ball anyway which throws out the formation and leaves us one short in the attacking third, if we factor it into the formation then we can have the wide players higher up as forwards rather than midfielders.
This would enable us to use Auba wide in a three like Barcelona used to do with Etoo, Henry, Villa etc basically stays wide when we are defending and attacking in transition but appear centrally at the end of the move.
Very few teams actually play a pure ten anymore, Hamez is brilliant, he was a Perez 'Galactico' signing and they have ended up loaning him out for two years because it was so difficult to fit him into a successful structure.

 

[Mark Tobias]

I was merely pointing out that Ronaldo is one of the best to ever do it, something that you subscribe to if I'm not mistaken, so putting up godly number while playing with a football god is hardly surprising if your job is being a supplier.

Yup he spent most of the World Cup posting things about how crap Messi is. Was a bit obsessive actually.

 

[NoOffense]

Thirdly he often comes deep to get the ball anyway which throws out the formation and leaves us one short in the attacking third, if we factor it into the formation then we can have the wide players higher up as forwards rather than midfielders.

He is forced to drop deep because when we have the ball, Ramsey goes near our attacking line eating all the space from Mesut forcing him wider or deeper. And also he has to drop deep because our defenders and midfield players can't get the ball to him higher up the pitch. This is what Cazorla did brilliantly.

I watched Santi play against Real Sociedad and Werder Bremen and I think we should have kept him. His technique, vision and passing range is something we really miss.

I don't personally care at all how much a player earn as long as they improve Arsenal. And Mesut Özil 100% helps Arsenal win games. Maybe he shouldn't start against bigger teams when he doesn't get the ball and the support enough to be productive. But against lesser teams watch him create chance after chance.

 

[Kobi]

He is forced to drop deep because when we have the ball, Ramsey goes near our attacking line eating all the space from Mesut forcing him wider or deeper. And also he has to drop deep because our defenders and midfield players can't get the ball to him higher up the pitch. This is what Cazorla did brilliantly.

I watched Santi play against Real Sociedad and Werder Bremen and I think we should have kept him. His technique, vision and passing range is something we really miss.

I don't personally care at all how much a player earn as long as they improve Arsenal. And Mesut Özil 100% helps Arsenal win games. Maybe he shouldn't start against bigger teams when he doesn't get the ball and the support enough to be productive. But against lesser teams watch him create chance after chance.

This is the point, if he wants to/has to drop deep anyway just play him there, we want him on the ball as much as possible.
At the very least it's another body in midfield which is preferable to a Ramsey shaped hole, play him with Torreira and one of Xhaka/Guendouzi and then we can play a front three like most top teams and make use of both PEA and Lacazette.

 

[TheArsenalis]

All I see somewhat pointless "all comps" stats which show Özil's numbers being propped up while playing in a two team league, while playing in a mainly facilitator role, with a absolute end product machine/one of the best player of all time in prime Ronaldo (whose production didnt trail off once Özil left Madrid).

Either that graphic should make you think of the context of stats painting Özil as the "best #10 in the world" by Opta or whatnot as Ronaldo was a monster before and after Özil in terms of production (and the team was more successful once Özil was moved on) or you should expect more from Özil while hes been at AFC as hes not been as good as he was in the past and hes now in what should be his prime.

Im shaken and stirred. I could read all of it. You went in and off. Lool.