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Mesut Özil: These Öz Ain't Loyal

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by razörist, Aug 18, 2020.

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Why do you believe he's been left out?

  1. Just football reasons

  2. Criticism of China

  3. Paycut refusal

  4. A bit of everything

  5. Mods should ban kash2 from the thread

  6. Mods should ban Oxeki and Jury from the forum

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  1. scytheavatar

    scytheavatar Well-Known Member

    You seem to be arguing in favour of Kash2's argument that "no wonder liverpool get tonked 7-2 and city get smashed by leciester. Theres no one in the middle controlling the game." In another words that City wouldn't get smashed by Leicester if they had a player like Özil in the middle. Which is something I find extremely hard to agree with.
     
  2. Jury

    Jury Mission Accomplished

    Some commenters are hardly worth the reference. It is literally random nonsense with every other post an attack on someone or a whole group of people, with the odd totally baseless racist accusation thrown in as well for good measure.
     
  3. say yes

    say yes Thread Title Abuser

    Great. So basically City and Liverpool, two of the most dominant teams in English footballing history, don’t have control in the middle of the field because it’s possible to counter them.

    Now, to complete this wonderful circle, you need to explain how the likes of Özil and Riquelme would solve that issue for them.
     
  4. Makingtrax

    Makingtrax Arséne Wenger once said "I will miss you"

    'Control'' is a nothing word. The only things worth talking about in football are things that can be measured, else it's just hot air.

    Expected goals (xG), possession, sequences, defensive coverage etc.

    But ultimately football is just a game of odds, and the team with better players that carves out the most chances will win most often.

    But not always, the team with fewer chances will occasionally convert theirs and win. The problem is that people will try and make out that they did so with some master plan or their manager was better :lol: . . . and that's where the b*llocks comes in.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
  5. Jury

    Jury Mission Accomplished

    :lol: You’ve had an awakening lad.
     
  6. Jury

    Jury Mission Accomplished

    On the plus side I view our 2005 FA Cup Final performance against Manchester United in a different light. We had those bastards just where we wanted them!
     
    Oxeki, Paddy from Sweden and say yes like this.
  7. Blood on the Tracks

    Blood on the Tracks Well-Known Member

    Plenty of people on here know more about tactics than me, I'd be happy to be set right.

    What does 'Control' of a football match even mean? What about a Mourinho park the bus masterclass. Going into a game planning on having minimal possession and nicking a 1-0 win. If that plan comes to fruition surely you have controlled the match in some sense? Even though you've been dominated in every metric other than the score line.

    I'm not certain that dominating the football in terms of xG, possession etc necessarily means having control over the match in a broader sense.

    Am I wrong?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
    Dj_sds - and Paddy from Sweden like this.
  8. Paddy from Sweden

    Paddy from Sweden Active Member

    So he's bribing his teammates. Once again trying to make himself look the good guy with a new social media stunt. Guess it's the only place he can have an impact nowadays as it seems he's not very eager to kick a ball anymore.
     
  9. Godwin1

    Godwin1 Very well-known

    So you think a lesser opponent looking at stronger opponents weaknesses and exploiting them through specific drills or tactics set up by a manager is b*llocks and it's all luck?
     
    Dj_sds - likes this.
  10. CaseUteinberger

    CaseUteinberger Cazorla (not Carzola ffs)

    Think what you are basically saying is that it’s the goals that count. Guess we can all agree on that... ;)
     
    Oxeki and Jury like this.
  11. scytheavatar

    scytheavatar Well-Known Member

    It is something that is harder to win with then just dominating possession and patiently dissecting your opponent's defense. Just because you beat your opponent doesn't mean you have control over them, if your counter attacks didn't work you would have easily lost the match instead.
     
    Jury likes this.
  12. Jury

    Jury Mission Accomplished

    A team can control a game and still be undone by a well executed strategy. Controlling the game is a strategy. Relinquishing control of the game to play on the counter can be a strategy. But you can’t say setting up to play on the counter and have far less possession is setting out to control a game. It’s an enforced tactic used mostly by the inferior team who acknowledge that they haven’t got the quality to control the game. Seems like a bit of a silly argument, but that’s where we are!
     
  13. Godwin1

    Godwin1 Very well-known

    I'm not arguing that though, just seems trax has this thing for luck and I'm saying that, though they often are, winning on the back foot and luck aren't always mutually exclusive.
     
  14. Oxeki

    Oxeki New Threads, Old Tweets

    If team A dominates and controls the game and have lots of chances to score but fails to convert them. But team B have less of the ball and just one chance but scores and converts it, would you say team B 'controlled' the game?
     
  15. Jury

    Jury Mission Accomplished

    Controlling. Particularly when you consider where this discussion came from.
     
  16. Trilly

    Trilly The John Sauce Of Ilford Trusted

  17. Jury

    Jury Mission Accomplished

    The acolytes are very hard to please! Tut tut :lol:
     
    Paddy from Sweden and Oxeki like this.
  18. Dj_sds -

    Dj_sds - Well-Known Member

    It's very subtle but it's just another squad cost justification post.
     
    Jury likes this.
  19. Dj_sds -

    Dj_sds - Well-Known Member

    You can control a match even when you give up possession. Look how many times in the wenger era teams packed the center of the pitch to force us wide, when we had no target man, thus nullifying our biggest attacking threat and making us toothless in the process. Mourinho made a living of controlling the game without possession.
     
    Kav likes this.
  20. Trilly

    Trilly The John Sauce Of Ilford Trusted

    Usual lot will like this of course.
     
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