Midfield - Passing Problem?

[krackpot]

I got thinking after the Liverpool game if there was any indication that we have perhaps not been good enough in midfield.

Player​	Passes per Game​	Attacking Contributions​	Defensive Contributions​
Aaron Ramsey (2016/17) 13 starts	40	1 goal, 4 assists	0.9 tackles per game
Frances Coquelin (2016/17)	40	0 assists	2.5 tackles per game
Granit Xhaka (2016/17)	71	2 goals, 2 assists	2.4 tackles per game
Mesut Özil (2016/17) @Jury	63	8 goals, 9 assists	0.8 tackles per game
Santi Cazorla (2016/2017) 7 games	70	2 goals, 2 assists	0.9 tackles per game
Thomas Partey (2021/22)	40	1 goal, 0 assists	1.9 tackles per game
Sambi Lokonga (2021/22)	41	0 assists	1.5 tackles per game
Granit Xhaka (2021/22)	47	0 assists	2.4 tackles per game
Emile Smith-Rowe (2021/22)	30	4 goals, 2 assists	0.4 tackles per game
Paul Pogba (2021/22) 13 games	50	0 goals, 7 assists	0.9 tackles per game

Well, the stats paint an even worse picture!

If you consider the 2016/17 season, which I think was Wenger's last one, and we take any combination of three players, it would be like 40 + 40 +70, which is 150 passes in Midfield.
If you consider the 2021/22 season, which is Arteta's second season, and we take any combination of three players, it is very bad, like 40 + 41 + 30, which is 120 passes in Midfield.

This is a deficit of about 30 passes, which is like missing a whole player in midfield. It's ridiculous! No wonder we cannot compete in midfield, and our football looks so ugly.


Do you think we need to buy a world class passing midfielder, or are you happy with the change in tactics?

btw, kudos to @albakos and the mods for the new features. The tables and formatting are lovely!

 

[RacingPhoton]

Purely based on eye test, I agree that our midfield has been crap for a long time. Cazorla-Coquelin was the last good midfield we had. While Sambi shows good signs, he still has a long way to go. Partey has been too inconsistent so far.
Having said that, looking at passes alone can be misleading. Partey and Sambi tend to dribble a lot instead of just pinging passes around. Maybe we should see pass count and successful dribbles too? Chances created as a stat though has its weaknesses would provide a better idea.

 

[Red London]

CM needs to be a priority this summer. That’s not just to partner Partey but be good enough to partner with a less experienced player (eg AMN or Lokonga) and still be good enough.

Partey has proven he can’t handle the PL physically. We need a marquee signing there to partner him / take the load off.

 

[Macho]

Think the club's infamous U-turn on Xhaka shows the club is aware of our midfield woes but haven't found the answer yet, so made do with what they got.

I somewhat understand the clubs perspective looking at the rest of the league. It's filled with hardworkers but not much talent.

 

[Maybe]

Passing alone is not always the issue, there is the other side of it which involves players' movement in front of the guy with the ball and system setup where players are not in a good position to receive the pass.
I think we are too focused on defending and it's a bit harder to make any passing patterns, but I also won't ignore that our players are not that technical which definitely is part of the problem

 

[Tir Na Nog]

It's not necessarily possession, just a lack of progressive passing a creativity from midfield in general, also lack of movement too, virtually no third man runs to help open up defences. Our structure in the buildup is fairly good in fairness but once we get to the final third there's very little.

When Ødegaard plays I'd like him to stay higher up the pitch instead of always dropping deeper. But you could also say perhaps our midfielders can't always find him in those positions so he might drop deep out of necessity.

 

[ArsenalInMyHeart]

Who we can sign in January to find a solution for this problem?
My realistic opinion is Aouar

 

[krackpot]

Who we can sign in January to find a solution for this problem?
My realistic opinion is Aouar

The problem with Aouar is that Arteta has never played with someone like that.

Even Ødegaard is not playing because he doesn't suit Artetas style.

 

[Makingtrax]

I got thinking after the Liverpool game if there was any indication that we have perhaps not been good enough in midfield.

Player​	Passes per Game​	Attacking Contributions​	Defensive Contributions​
Aaron Ramsey (2016/17) 13 starts	40	1 goal, 4 assists	0.9 tackles per game
Frances Coquelin (2016/17)	40	0 assists	2.5 tackles per game
Granit Xhaka (2016/17)	71	2 goals, 2 assists	2.4 tackles per game
Mesut Özil (2016/17) @Jury	63	8 goals, 9 assists	0.8 tackles per game
Santi Cazorla (2016/2017) 7 games	70	2 goals, 2 assists	0.9 tackles per game
Thomas Partey (2021/22)	40	1 goal, 0 assists	1.9 tackles per game
Sambi Lokonga (2021/22)	41	0 assists	1.5 tackles per game
Granit Xhaka (2021/22)	47	0 assists	2.4 tackles per game
Emile Smith-Rowe (2021/22)	30	4 goals, 2 assists	0.4 tackles per game
Paul Pogba (2021/22) 13 games	50	0 goals, 7 assists	0.9 tackles per game

Well, the stats paint an even worse picture!

If you consider the 2016/17 season, which I think was Wenger's last one, and we take any combination of three players, it would be like 40 + 40 +70, which is 150 passes in Midfield.
If you consider the 2021/22 season, which is Arteta's second season, and we take any combination of three players, it is very bad, like 40 + 41 + 30, which is 120 passes in Midfield.

This is a deficit of about 30 passes, which is like missing a whole player in midfield. It's ridiculous! No wonder we cannot compete in midfield, and our football looks so ugly.


Do you think we need to buy a world class passing midfielder, or are you happy with the change in tactics?

btw, kudos to @albakos and the mods for the new features. The tables and formatting are lovely!

v

I got thinking after the Liverpool game if there was any indication that we have perhaps not been good enough in midfield.

Player​	Passes per Game​	Attacking Contributions​	Defensive Contributions​
Aaron Ramsey (2016/17) 13 starts	40	1 goal, 4 assists	0.9 tackles per game
Frances Coquelin (2016/17)	40	0 assists	2.5 tackles per game
Granit Xhaka (2016/17)	71	2 goals, 2 assists	2.4 tackles per game
Mesut Özil (2016/17) @Jury	63	8 goals, 9 assists	0.8 tackles per game
Santi Cazorla (2016/2017) 7 games	70	2 goals, 2 assists	0.9 tackles per game
Thomas Partey (2021/22)	40	1 goal, 0 assists	1.9 tackles per game
Sambi Lokonga (2021/22)	41	0 assists	1.5 tackles per game
Granit Xhaka (2021/22)	47	0 assists	2.4 tackles per game
Emile Smith-Rowe (2021/22)	30	4 goals, 2 assists	0.4 tackles per game
Paul Pogba (2021/22) 13 games	50	0 goals, 7 assists	0.9 tackles per game

Well, the stats paint an even worse picture!

If you consider the 2016/17 season, which I think was Wenger's last one, and we take any combination of three players, it would be like 40 + 40 +70, which is 150 passes in Midfield.
If you consider the 2021/22 season, which is Arteta's second season, and we take any combination of three players, it is very bad, like 40 + 41 + 30, which is 120 passes in Midfield.

This is a deficit of about 30 passes, which is like missing a whole player in midfield. It's ridiculous! No wonder we cannot compete in midfield, and our football looks so ugly.


Do you think we need to buy a world class passing midfielder, or are you happy with the change in tactics?

btw, kudos to @albakos and the mods for the new features. The tables and formatting are lovely!

Nice post bro. The trouble is . . . is it the players or the manager. Arteta is micro managing every player to get what he wants. Not too bad if you're in attacker or defender but for midfielders who are playing 360 degree passes and have to be very creative,the complexity must be bewildering.

 

[Rimaal]

I got thinking after the Liverpool game if there was any indication that we have perhaps not been good enough in midfield.

Player​	Passes per Game​	Attacking Contributions​	Defensive Contributions​
Aaron Ramsey (2016/17) 13 starts	40	1 goal, 4 assists	0.9 tackles per game
Frances Coquelin (2016/17)	40	0 assists	2.5 tackles per game
Granit Xhaka (2016/17)	71	2 goals, 2 assists	2.4 tackles per game
Mesut Özil (2016/17) @Jury	63	8 goals, 9 assists	0.8 tackles per game
Santi Cazorla (2016/2017) 7 games	70	2 goals, 2 assists	0.9 tackles per game
Thomas Partey (2021/22)	40	1 goal, 0 assists	1.9 tackles per game
Sambi Lokonga (2021/22)	41	0 assists	1.5 tackles per game
Granit Xhaka (2021/22)	47	0 assists	2.4 tackles per game
Emile Smith-Rowe (2021/22)	30	4 goals, 2 assists	0.4 tackles per game
Paul Pogba (2021/22) 13 games	50	0 goals, 7 assists	0.9 tackles per game

Well, the stats paint an even worse picture!

If you consider the 2016/17 season, which I think was Wenger's last one, and we take any combination of three players, it would be like 40 + 40 +70, which is 150 passes in Midfield.
If you consider the 2021/22 season, which is Arteta's second season, and we take any combination of three players, it is very bad, like 40 + 41 + 30, which is 120 passes in Midfield.

This is a deficit of about 30 passes, which is like missing a whole player in midfield. It's ridiculous! No wonder we cannot compete in midfield, and our football looks so ugly.


Do you think we need to buy a world class passing midfielder, or are you happy with the change in tactics?

btw, kudos to @albakos and the mods for the new features. The tables and formatting are lovely!

Great thread.

Most of the forum wanted a class midfielder in the summer, unfortunately, most of the forum also settled for Odergaard .

However, no matter who you get, he will still have to contend with Arteta's incompetence and eventually underperform.

 

[Moah]

I will add lack of movement as another problem. We are so static and the system is so rigid for any explosive players to use their qualities.

 

[Heskey]

It's not necessarily possession, just a lack of progressive passing a creativity from midfield in general, also lack of movement too, virtually no third man runs to help open up defences. Our structure in the buildup is fairly good in fairness but once we get to the final third there's very little.

When Ødegaard plays I'd like him to stay higher up the pitch instead of always dropping deeper. But you could also say perhaps our midfielders can't always find him in those positions so he might drop deep out of necessity.

Yeah, agree, the movement off ball is non-existing and a huge problem. Against Liverpool we looked somewhat okay in building up from defence, I suppose. But the reality was also, that we were dropping to our own goal line and then pinging the ball with great risk for little reward seeing as we had dropped so deep. Then the spaces up on the pitch gets compressed too and distances far, and you need to hit very precise passes a lot of times to get anywhere.

It seems very similar to when we used to play Özil. When Cazorla (or Wilshere) were playing in midfield we'd see Özil stay far up the pitch and drift in and out and find those pockets of space that I think Ødegaard is looking for as well. That would work because Caz/Wilshere were able to find him with passes and Özil could receive the ball in dangerous spots and open the pitch for team mates. When we lost Cazorla to injury and lacked that profile in midfield we saw Özil drop deeper and deeper because otherwise he'd never get the ball. That then resulted in far less impact offensively, outrage from fans, and we're seeing similar with Ødegaard.

Seems we are "over-coaching" the defensive build-up and lacking any work on offensive movement, possesion etc, which ironically would help our defence as well as offence. We are 15th for possesion (46%) for the season (yeah yeah, there's outliers in City, Chelsea bla bla) even though Arteta says he wants us to control and entertain. There's been spent plenty money on the squad to expect different by now.

 

[Barry]

In terms of personnel I actually really like Partey most of the time. When he's fit he's usually class bar a few wayward shots on goal. Xhaka's ok but not elite & Sambi is talented but lightweight at the moment (though I'm optimistic that he develops into a great player). We need another midfielder who scores goals though.

I think the midfield issues and in particular our issues with possession are down to coaching. We manage intensity in small spells but haven't consistently got control of the ball at the moment, even against teams with fewer technical players.

I don't want to see a return to the late Wenger era teams where possession was often sterile and made us fragile at times. Nothing wrong with counter-attacking football but Arteta needs to coach game management when we're ahead & dominant passing against the bottom-feeders. He hasn't shown enough of this to date and I worry about that.

 

[Sanchez11]

Transition is the key and movement aswell. We dont play through the middle anymore which is our downfall imo.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

Bellingham would be a dream signing because he'd offer something completely different in midfield. He'd get forward, offer a goal threat, carry the ball like Partey is supposedly capable of doing. Also has the energy and physical attributes required.

 

[Big Poppa]

It's by design. For example, I think at Anfield, all 3 of Partey, Lokonga and AMN should've played to match Liverpool in the middle but Arteta's plan B is more of plan A. We were continuously overrun, and had no answers to their spare man.

 

[Rasmi]

The problem with Aouar is that Arteta has never played with someone like that.

Even Ødegaard is not playing because he doesn't suit Artetas style.

Yes it’s tactical where we prefer to use our cms as a way to get the ball to the full backs or wide players. We have no actual play between the midfielders. So I don’t get why people think getting ball players in there would help when Arteta will tell them get the ball wide ASAP

 

[krackpot]

Great thread.

Most of the forum wanted a class midfielder in the summer, unfortunately, most of the forum also settled for Odergaard .

However, no matter who you get, he will still have to contend with Arteta's incompetence and eventually underperform.

I don't know how people thought Ødegaard would work under Arteta, when he doesn't use a No. 10 at all.

v

Nice post bro. The trouble is . . . is it the players or the manager. Arteta is micro managing every player to get what he wants. Not too bad if you're in attacker or defender but for midfielders who are playing 360 degree passes and have to be very creative,the complexity must be bewildering.

Correct. I would say that the it doesn't work for attackers too.

Maybe Arteta has always been around limited players like Sterling who would benefit from having a rigid routine but you need to have a balance, especially when you have some good creative players.

 

[MikelHadADream]

I got thinking after the Liverpool game if there was any indication that we have perhaps not been good enough in midfield.

Player​	Passes per Game​	Attacking Contributions​	Defensive Contributions​
Aaron Ramsey (2016/17) 13 starts	40	1 goal, 4 assists	0.9 tackles per game
Frances Coquelin (2016/17)	40	0 assists	2.5 tackles per game
Granit Xhaka (2016/17)	71	2 goals, 2 assists	2.4 tackles per game
Mesut Özil (2016/17) @Jury	63	8 goals, 9 assists	0.8 tackles per game
Santi Cazorla (2016/2017) 7 games	70	2 goals, 2 assists	0.9 tackles per game
Thomas Partey (2021/22)	40	1 goal, 0 assists	1.9 tackles per game
Sambi Lokonga (2021/22)	41	0 assists	1.5 tackles per game
Granit Xhaka (2021/22)	47	0 assists	2.4 tackles per game
Emile Smith-Rowe (2021/22)	30	4 goals, 2 assists	0.4 tackles per game
Paul Pogba (2021/22) 13 games	50	0 goals, 7 assists	0.9 tackles per game

Well, the stats paint an even worse picture!

If you consider the 2016/17 season, which I think was Wenger's last one, and we take any combination of three players, it would be like 40 + 40 +70, which is 150 passes in Midfield.
If you consider the 2021/22 season, which is Arteta's second season, and we take any combination of three players, it is very bad, like 40 + 41 + 30, which is 120 passes in Midfield.

This is a deficit of about 30 passes, which is like missing a whole player in midfield. It's ridiculous! No wonder we cannot compete in midfield, and our football looks so ugly.


Do you think we need to buy a world class passing midfielder, or are you happy with the change in tactics?

btw, kudos to @albakos and the mods for the new features. The tables and formatting are lovely!

It's quite alarming as well as guys like Ramsey and Özil predominantly made their passes higher up the pitch in the final third where there is less space, and even they were making more passes than our current deeper players are. Compare that to ESR who is performing a similar role in the team and its quite eye opening.

For all of this talk of "positional play" being better in getting the ball to the final third and making it stay there, the stats under Arteta completely contradict this theory.

 

[Rasmi]

It's quite alarming as well as guys like Ramsey and Özil predominantly made their passes higher up the pitch in the final third where there is less space, and even they were making more passes than our current deeper players are. Compare that to ESR who is performing a similar role in the team and its quite eye opening.

For all of this talk of "positional play" being better in getting the ball to the final third and making it stay there, the stats under Arteta completely contradict this theory.

every stats shows arteta is close to Dyche in style. But the way he talks and his past with guardiola and offcourse being spanish people assume he loves ball retention attacking football. Even after 2 years people refuse to see his style for what it is