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Mikel Arteta: Artist, Manager, Legend 💡

scytheavatar

Established Member
We've hit the low point now. It's time to bounce accordingly. We won't get any lower, the transition was always going to be happening until we got rid of previous regimes players on ridiculous wages. Ie mustafi, Özil, Kola etc.

Now they've gone you can actually start rebalancing the squad properly.

What's the point of getting rid of "players on ridiculous wages" if you are just going to sign more players on ridiculous wages? We might as well had given Mkhi a contract extension instead of signing Willian. It is pure naivety and a sense of entitlement to think we can't get any lower, when time and again the people in charge of the club are shown to be incapable of learning.
 

Iceman10

Established Member
What's the point of getting rid of "players on ridiculous wages" if you are just going to sign more players on ridiculous wages? We might as well had given Mkhi a contract extension instead of signing Willian. It is pure naivety and a sense of entitlement to think we can't get any lower, when time and again the people in charge of the club are shown to be incapable of learning.

I saw on another thread the Willian transfer described as a free transfer, can’t remember the commenter. He got a big fat signing bonus to make him get something close to equivalent of 200k per week over the three years of his contract. Mikel is so stubborn he won’t do this, but he should just admit it was a mistake, write off the signing bonus, and try to move Willian on to somewhere like China or America this summer. If the signing bonus is written off the wages to take on by a new club would be something closer to 100k per week.
 

Baki

Loves Anime Hates Mikel
Transition from what to what? Because while I don’t disagree. The question is where are we headed. Presently the transition seems to be 6th to 8th to 10th. Not exactly progressive.
Not the kind of transition that most would welcome either.

Transition backwards it seems. If the Kroenke's want to safeguard their investment, they would be wise to replace Arteta and also revamp the management team at Arsenal.
 

Baki

Loves Anime Hates Mikel
Very likely to finish 10th place this season. If that doesn't scream sack now, I don't know what will.
 

Legend14

Established Member
Certainly agree. I just think a happy camp is a good one, and with the amount of dross hanging around it can't have been easy in training.

My main issue is the consistency, we've shown flashes of brilliance throughout the season but not often enough. What is that down to? Because if they're showing it they're being coached it.

I know you'll disagree but the players are a big issue here. Like I said in today's match day thread the players are good enough to not be in 10th thats obvious. They should probably be around 6th or 7th. However we have so many who will have a 9/10 performance followed by four 2-5/10 displays. Ceballos, Pepe, Holding, Bellerin and Laca just to name a few regulars.

You then have the consistently good performers like Tierney, Saka and I'd throw Ödegaard and ESR in there along with Leno to some extent despite his shaky moments recently. And in fairness Xhaka as well, think he's shown up massively since his red card.

I dont think it's just about signings and getting better players, it's about getting consistent players who will give you 7-10/10's every single week. Not a roller coaster of performances over a season. And right now we still have too many roller coaster players who are regular starters.

Hopefully I put this across well, I don't usually word it well and will often blame the players, but this is my reasoning. Of course Arteta is to blame for certain things and his man management is weak, but I do believe he's a top coach.
Agree with all, except I am not sure Arteta is a top coach. I think he is a coach in training.

Boils down to how much he quickly he can mature. I am disappointed in his second half of the season more than the first. I expected him to grown into the position a bit faster. Now I am nervous about his real qualities.
 

scytheavatar

Established Member
Agree with all, except I am not sure Arteta is a top coach. I think he is a coach in training.

Boils down to how much he quickly he can mature. I am disappointed in his second half of the season more than the first. I expected him to grown into the position a bit faster. Now I am nervous about his real qualities.
Wenger would tell you, a manager can't "grown into the position". A manager is a leader and leaders only grown out of the position and lose their authority over time. Guys like Guardiola and Klopp took some time to get their team to perform, but you could have seen how much their team grew over their first season. It is laughable to think Arteta needs more than 1 season before people can judge his "real qualities".
 

Rasmi

Got 7 accusations last 3 years. Not my fault 🤦‍♂️
My main issue is the consistency, we've shown flashes of brilliance throughout the season but not often enough. What is that down to? Because if they're showing it they're being coached it.

I know you'll disagree but the players are a big issue here. Like I said in today's match day thread the players are good enough to not be in 10th thats obvious. They should probably be around 6th or 7th. However we have so many who will have a 9/10 performance followed by four 2-5/10 displays. Ceballos, Pepe, Holding, Bellerin and Laca just to name a few regulars.

You then have the consistently good performers like Tierney, Saka and I'd throw Ödegaard and ESR in there along with Leno to some extent despite his shaky moments recently. And in fairness Xhaka as well, think he's shown up massively since his red card.

I dont think it's just about signings and getting better players, it's about getting consistent players who will give you 7-10/10's every single week. Not a roller coaster of performances over a season. And right now we still have too many roller coaster players who are regular starters.

Hopefully I put this across well, I don't usually word it well and will often blame the players, but this is my reasoning. Of course Arteta is to blame for certain things and his man management is weak, but I do believe he's a top coach.
You say the players are top 6-7. Is Arteta top 6-7 manager in the PL? If not then he is bigger problem than the players
 

Iceman10

Established Member
Have sharply turned against Arteta mainly based on his management through the WHU and Liverpool matches. Before those matches I was willing to wait until end of season and overall results, but through those two matches I lost patience, especially lack of learnings from the WHU match carried forward to the Liverpool match (e.g. Auba out wide). The Slavia match I was a bit more forgiving because two-legged European ties can be cagey, we did assert ourselves unlike against Liverpool and it was just last minute madness at the back that cost us in the first leg.

In general though it is going to take a considerable amount for me to be at ease with Arteta ever again. To be brutally honest I will of course be ecstatic if we win the EL, but even then I will be noting knockout tourneys have an element of luck about them, just like the FA Cup run last season. I will sit back through the summer though if he does win the EL. Just saying it as it is, can’t help how I feel.

Mikel playing Martinelli is welcome, but it is noted he was fully aware of fan pressure and impatience to give Martinelli a chance as per his pre-match presser comments. Did he stumble on the ESR solution before due to fan pressure and circumstances, and was it somewhat similar here with Martinelli? (incl. Covid / flu cases in the squad). Very hard to tell. His management of Saka is questionable also. No one expects him to play 6 kids in the same starting line up, but if he was open to Martinelli earlier there could have been some rotation with Saka.
 

blrgooner

Established Member
Have sharply turned against Arteta mainly based on his management through the WHU and Liverpool matches. Before those matches I was willing to wait until end of season and overall results, but through those two matches I lost patience, especially lack of learnings from the WHU match carried forward to the Liverpool match (e.g. Auba out wide). The Slavia match I was a bit more forgiving because two-legged European ties can be cagey, we did assert ourselves unlike against Liverpool and it was just last minute madness at the back that cost us in the first leg.

In general though it is going to take a considerable amount for me to be at ease with Arteta ever again. To be brutally honest I will of course be ecstatic if we win the EL, but even then I will be noting knockout tourneys have an element of luck about them, just like the FA Cup run last season. I will sit back through the summer though if he does win the EL. Just saying it as it is, can’t help how I feel.

Mikel playing Martinelli is welcome, but it is noted he was fully aware of fan pressure and impatience to give Martinelli a chance as per his pre-match presser comments. Did he stumble on the ESR solution before due to fan pressure and circumstances, and was it somewhat similar here with Martinelli? (incl. Covid / flu cases in the squad). Very hard to tell. His management of Saka is questionable also. No one expects him to play 6 kids in the same starting line up, but if he was open to Martinelli earlier there could have been some rotation with Saka.

I agree with you on Auba out wide being a mess. I think Arteta uses that kind of formation when we is looking to play on the counter and get "Smash and grab" wins like we got last season towards the end.

Don`t agree on Martinelli instead of Saka though. I personally think Martinelli out wide is pretty much same as Auba out wide as in we are pushing a player who is clearly a striker and wants to play close to goal wide just because he has pace.

Saka is a midfielder. He is good at using his body to keep the ball, looks for one touch passing options and likes to come towards the ball to collect and makes things happen. Martinelli is a striker who likes to run into spaces behind the opposition. I am not sure you can replace Saka with Martinelli when you are playing the system we play( Which has basically two midfielders who are behind the ball at all times).
 

The_Playmaker

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Have sharply turned against Arteta mainly based on his management through the WHU and Liverpool matches. Before those matches I was willing to wait until end of season and overall results, but through those two matches I lost patience, especially lack of learnings from the WHU match carried forward to the Liverpool match (e.g. Auba out wide). The Slavia match I was a bit more forgiving because two-legged European ties can be cagey, we did assert ourselves unlike against Liverpool and it was just last minute madness at the back that cost us in the first leg.

In general though it is going to take a considerable amount for me to be at ease with Arteta ever again. To be brutally honest I will of course be ecstatic if we win the EL, but even then I will be noting knockout tourneys have an element of luck about them, just like the FA Cup run last season. I will sit back through the summer though if he does win the EL. Just saying it as it is, can’t help how I feel.

Mikel playing Martinelli is welcome, but it is noted he was fully aware of fan pressure and impatience to give Martinelli a chance as per his pre-match presser comments. Did he stumble on the ESR solution before due to fan pressure and circumstances, and was it somewhat similar here with Martinelli? (incl. Covid / flu cases in the squad). Very hard to tell. His management of Saka is questionable also. No one expects him to play 6 kids in the same starting line up, but if he was open to Martinelli earlier there could have been some rotation with Saka.
Yeah I basically feel the same way. I can see that he is a good coach. Yesterday was another example of that in the way the team set up.

However the one good thing he has as a manager isn't something I particularly like. He is able to make it seem like success was all down to him and when we fail it seems to be down the the players.

He always comes across as patronising. He apparently wanted to give Martinelli the right games and the right minutes? What are those minutes exactly? Minutes when the season is done and dusted and the league doesn't matter? Minutes so he can rest Willian for the big games in Europe.

He talks about development of players. They need games to develop. He just seems to block their path to developing. For example. 10 minutes to go vs Sheffield United and we have the game won. Why bring on Elneny when he could bring on Azeez? That would be finding the right time to develop a player. A league game vs the worst team in the league is the right game. He contradicts himself so much its infuriating.
 

Rasmi

Got 7 accusations last 3 years. Not my fault 🤦‍♂️
Yeah I basically feel the same way. I can see that he is a good coach. Yesterday was another example of that in the way the team set up.

However the one good thing he has as a manager isn't something I particularly like. He is able to make it seem like success was all down to him and when we fail it seems to be down the the players.

He always comes across as patronising. He apparently wanted to give Martinelli the right games and the right minutes? What are those minutes exactly? Minutes when the season is done and dusted and the league doesn't matter? Minutes so he can rest Willian for the big games in Europe.

He talks about development of players. They need games to develop. He just seems to block their path to developing. For example. 10 minutes to go vs Sheffield United and we have the game won. Why bring on Elneny when he could bring on Azeez? That would be finding the right time to develop a player. A league game vs the worst team in the league is the right game. He contradicts himself so much its infuriating.
It’s also the reason I don’t like him. He is full of sh1t and if people listen to him carefully they will see that. The thing about taking credit and big himself up and distance himself when it’s bad is so him. Atleast Jose does it in a straight away. Arteta is very sneaky with it
 

mirrorstare

Well-Known Member
I don't think he's full of ****, you can see him apologizing and taking the blame for the bad stuff headfirst just like he and Per used to do as players in the banter era.

The problem is how empty it all sounds when he keeps talking about the big project of clearing away everyone. At some point is just sounds like undeserved delusions, and I'm not surprised as time passes he's not exactly persuading people to his cause. Some here have already talked about how what he does doesn't seem like a project at all, and all his other problems. But there he is, speaking unconvincingly about that wonderful future when he gets to kick everyone out of the club bar his trusted people.

Maybe that's also a reason Arteta hasn't lost a portion of the fanbase, there are a lot of fans out there that would be pleased to kick most of this squad out of the club, and if Arteta is going to be allowed to do that they feel like running the risk to fill this team with Cedrics is worth it, maybe.
 

CaseUteinberger

Big aficionado of Xhaka Redemption Arc ❤
Wenger would tell you, a manager can't "grown into the position". A manager is a leader and leaders only grown out of the position and lose their authority over time. Guys like Guardiola and Klopp took some time to get their team to perform, but you could have seen how much their team grew over their first season. It is laughable to think Arteta needs more than 1 season before people can judge his "real qualities".
Think comparing Arteta to Pep and Klopp is a bit silly. They are both proven top coaches. And with Pep he always has had massive money and organizational clout behind him.

Arteta is learning on the job and yes it is a job and not something you are born to. Seeing the squad interact and hearing them speak they seem happy with their manager. The same seems to be the case with the people in the club organization itself. I doubt it is all a skilled PR job and that the press likes him.
 

The_Playmaker

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
I don't think he's full of ****, you can see him apologizing and taking the blame for the bad stuff headfirst just like he and Per used to do as players in the banter era.

The problem is how empty it all sounds when he keeps talking about the big project of clearing away everyone. At some point is just sounds like undeserved delusions, and I'm not surprised as time passes he's not exactly persuading people to his cause. Some here have already talked about how what he does doesn't seem like a project at all, and all his other problems. But there he is, speaking unconvincingly about that wonderful future when he gets to kick everyone out of the club bar his trusted people.

Maybe that's also a reason Arteta hasn't lost a portion of the fanbase, there are a lot of fans out there that would be pleased to kick most of this squad out of the club, and if Arteta is going to be allowed to do that they feel like running the risk to fill this team with Cedrics is worth it, maybe.

He tends to take the blame after he throws the players under the bus. I just find it really odd how he surrounds himself with people who he can control. There is nobody around him who can literally take him aside and tell him truths he needs to hear. He is in a bubble. He is a young coach. He should have at least one assistant who is an old head. Pep has Brian Kidd and Ole has Mike Phelan. Even Moyes has ex managers as coaches.

Arteta has surrounded himself with 20 year old coaches who have done what exactly? What are they going to say to a 31 year old professional that is genuinely going to help him psychologically? How can they even relate?

Have your 20 year old hot shots who study the game, but you need at least 1 person who has an aura and the experience.
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Trusted ⭐

Player: Saliba
Oh yeah and he finished 5th with Man Utd and did sod all at Sociedad.

Also if we landed Lingaard on loan instead of Ödegaard we'd be 2nd right now.

It should really be Lingaard > Arteta
:lol: Moyes was only in charge at United for 51 games and his win rate of 53% was not much different to Van Gaals spending a lot more money. Better than Fergie's or Solshjaer's first 51 games.

And if you'd given any manager or fan the option of Golden Boot winner Aubameyang or Lingard in their team at the start of the year, not many would have chosen Lingard, that's why United loaned him out. The fact is Arteta has struggled to manage Auba, but Moyes has got Lingard and others firing on all cylinders.
 

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
You say the players are top 6-7. Is Arteta top 6-7 manager in the PL? If not then he is bigger problem than the players

Nobody really knows yet. I think he's probably one of the best coaches in the league, but in terms of man management he probably isn't close to being the best.
 

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
:lol: Moyes was only in charge at United for 51 games and his win rate of 53% was not much different to Van Gaals spending a lot more money. Better than Fergie's or Solshjaer's first 51 games.

And if you'd given any manager or fan the option of Golden Boot winner Aubameyang or Lingard in their team at the start of the year, not many would have chosen Lingard, that's why United loaned him out. The fact is Arteta has struggled to manage Auba, but Moyes has got Lingard and others firing on all cylinders.

This is all fair enough, but it completely blows your squad cost argument out the water. West Ham are 4th with 7 games left and Chelsea to play at home. I also don't think its fair to put the full blame of Auba's form on Arteta. Before he signed his bumper contract he was firing for Arteta, afterwards its like he's taken a back seat. He doesn't look as if he wants to pull this team through despite being the captain. I see top players dig in when the going gets tough, work hard and ultimately play themselves into form, but Auba has some what downed tools and thrown his toys out the pram multiple times this season. Alexis vibes where he would throw his arms up in the air.

You can't fully blame the manager for one guys personal performances but then never think about crediting him for performances from Saka and such. It just doesn't work like that. There needs to be some consistency on here with what people say, it only seems to suit if it fits your agenda.
 

GunnerShy

Well-Known Member
Mate... Our attacking play has been largely dreadful all season. We've a £180m front three and cannot buy a second goal most weeks.
This is all fair enough, but it completely blows your squad cost argument out the water. West Ham are 4th with 7 games left and Chelsea to play at home. I also don't think its fair to put the full blame of Auba's form on Arteta. Before he signed his bumper contract he was firing for Arteta, afterwards its like he's taken a back seat. He doesn't look as if he wants to pull this team through despite being the captain. I see top players dig in when the going gets tough, work hard and ultimately play themselves into form, but Auba has some what downed tools and thrown his toys out the pram multiple times this season. Alexis vibes where he would throw his arms up in the air.

You can't fully blame the manager for one guys personal performances but then never think about crediting him for performances from Saka and such. It just doesn't work like that. There needs to be some consistency on here with what people say, it only seems to suit if it fits your agenda.
 

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I am immensely proud to say that I am the manager who has won the most FA Cups, and MY Arsenal are the club to lift it the most.

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