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Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
just thought of a new Arsenal/Mikel conspiracy theory while in the shower just then. Going to share on his last day, would fit my Saliba conspiracy theory as well. Interesting.

Discuss!
How can we discuss something that only you know about and won’t share until a day in the future we don’t even know yet.

F*ck me, why has this guy come back?
 

yorch44

Commander of the Pelotudo Brigade
1c63ed21-6fce-4d90-ae8d-e419e2f82678.jpg
Lol his hard nipple! So excited watching Arteta losing I guess
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
Not just Alexis, even someone like Henry would struggle too...all the best attackers would with the way we are playing, it's far too controlled/risk averse.

Forward players should lose the ball more, as they are trying to win games...managers should encourage that, tbh.
 

OnlyOne

‘Donkeys don’t have a peak, they remain useless’
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
How can we discuss something that only you know about and won’t share until a day in the future we don’t even know yet.

F*ck me, why has this guy come back?

Nothing to discuss yet.
 

Paperino

It’s Timo Time

Country: Sweden
When asked before the season about the aim he said this:

" Our goal is to get the best version, consistently, that is going to bring us closer to winning football matches. That is all I want from the team.

If we do that consistently in every single match, we are going to be in a good place. That is something that we haven't done, consistently give the best version.

That is something that we must control and we must do. If we are able to do that, the result will be the consequence to that...

On Friday, win against Brentford and we will be in a strong position in the league. That's what we have to do.

The rest will come
. "

I still dont understand what he talked about.
 

dka1

100% Dark Chocolate
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
How can someone back a manager while also acknowledging that one of our best players in recent years would struggle under him.

I just don’t get it.

I think that's a very fair point, and so there's two things to say in response;

1. Legrove did also point this out; that Sanchez struggled under Pep, and sometimes even great players don't work with certain management styles, you could make the argument that a player like Sanchez as great as he is wouldn't work with Arteta's style, logically that doesn't have to mean that Arteta is a bad manager and it can still mean that Sanchez is/was a brilliant player.

2. I know this takes the p!ss but you I don't personally believe above. I just think that it's a weakness of Arteta's offensive play that he wouldn't be able to get a player like Sanchez to work.

Sure he is safety first but that's the problem, Arteta is just too risk averse even more than Pep imo (though your opinion might vary on that one).

So then why back him? Well it's more that I might as well see what he does for the rest of the season before making a final judgement tbh, that's it.

But that's just for me personally, and it's a good way to stop me from flip flopping on my opinion until I feel like I've seen everything about the season, I'd say that's fair?

Also I personally saw enough good in that run we've had since January till Palace so that he gets that stay of execution in my mind.

That said, I've got no problem with people being negative about him, because frankly there's reason to be, if you can't see that then you are blind. I sort of draw the line at being happy about bad results but tbh I've not really seen much of that thankfully.
 

Paperino

It’s Timo Time

Country: Sweden
I think that's a very fair point, and so there's two things to say in response;

1. Legrove did also point this out; that Sanchez struggled under Pep, and sometimes even great players don't work with certain management styles, you could make the argument that a player like Sanchez as great as he is wouldn't work with Arteta's style, logically that doesn't have to mean that Arteta is a bad manager and it can still mean that Sanchez is/was a brilliant player.

2. I know this takes the p!ss but you I don't personally believe above. I just think that it's a weakness of Arteta's offensive play that he wouldn't be able to get a player like Sanchez to work.

Sure he is safety first but that's the problem, Arteta is just too risk averse even more than Pep imo (though your opinion might vary on that one).

So then why back him? Well it's more that I might as well see what he does for the rest of the season before making a final judgement tbh, that's it.

But that's just for me personally, and it's a good way to stop me from flip flopping on my opinion until I feel like I've seen everything about the season, I'd say that's fair?

Also I personally saw enough good in that run we've had since January till Palace so that he gets that stay of execution in my mind.

That said, I've got no problem with people being negative about him, because frankly there's reason to be, if you can't see that then you are blind. I sort of draw the line at being happy about bad results but tbh I've not really seen much of that thankfully.

What kind of man listen to anything Le Grove has to say? That guy is a filthy cvnt.
 

Rasmi

Negative Nancy

Country: England
I think that's a very fair point, and so there's two things to say in response;

1. Legrove did also point this out; that Sanchez struggled under Pep, and sometimes even great players don't work with certain management styles, you could make the argument that a player like Sanchez as great as he is wouldn't work with Arteta's style, logically that doesn't have to mean that Arteta is a bad manager and it can still mean that Sanchez is/was a brilliant player.

2. I know this takes the p!ss but you I don't personally believe above. I just think that it's a weakness of Arteta's offensive play that he wouldn't be able to get a player like Sanchez to work.

Sure he is safety first but that's the problem, Arteta is just too risk averse even more than Pep imo (though your opinion might vary on that one).

So then why back him? Well it's more that I might as well see what he does for the rest of the season before making a final judgement tbh, that's it.

But that's just for me personally, and it's a good way to stop me from flip flopping on my opinion until I feel like I've seen everything about the season, I'd say that's fair?

Also I personally saw enough good in that run we've had since January till Palace so that he gets that stay of execution in my mind.

That said, I've got no problem with people being negative about him, because frankly there's reason to be, if you can't see that then you are blind. I sort of draw the line at being happy about bad results but tbh I've not really seen much of that thankfully.
Him not working well with Sanchez don’t mean he is a bad manager. His managerial career at Arsenal SHOWS he is a bad manager. I just don’t get people like you. You are trying to give him every benefit of doubt and the most time possible to rule out he is not the one

That sounds like a proven quality manager who has clear track record and you say he has proven this and that. Give him more time. But this is a man who has never ever managed a club and has zero track record. He got the job based on one thing only. Working under pep and the club hoping he learned enough from pep to implement it here. That shows the greatness of pep

But he was a massive gamble that should never gotten the job based on any logic. Even ex players who got big club at first time had U23 experience. Nothing will change end of the season and people like you will say ok let’s see how he starts next season
 

dka1

100% Dark Chocolate
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
What kind of man listen to anything Le Grove has to say? That guy is a filthy cvnt.

Don't worry, I've got a decontamination unit fitted to my flat and use it for whenever I listen to their podcast.

Tbh I think Johnny is really good and I usually mostly agree with his takes so he's mostly the reason I listen and they usually have the first podcasts after the match is done.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
I think that's a very fair point, and so there's two things to say in response;

1. Legrove did also point this out; that Sanchez struggled under Pep, and sometimes even great players don't work with certain management styles, you could make the argument that a player like Sanchez as great as he is wouldn't work with Arteta's style, logically that doesn't have to mean that Arteta is a bad manager and it can still mean that Sanchez is/was a brilliant player.

2. I know this takes the p!ss but you I don't personally believe above. I just think that it's a weakness of Arteta's offensive play that he wouldn't be able to get a player like Sanchez to work.

Sure he is safety first but that's the problem, Arteta is just too risk averse even more than Pep imo (though your opinion might vary on that one).

So then why back him? Well it's more that I might as well see what he does for the rest of the season before making a final judgement tbh, that's it.

But that's just for me personally, and it's a good way to stop me from flip flopping on my opinion until I feel like I've seen everything about the season, I'd say that's fair?

Also I personally saw enough good in that run we've had since January till Palace so that he gets that stay of execution in my mind.

That said, I've got no problem with people being negative about him, because frankly there's reason to be, if you can't see that then you are blind. I sort of draw the line at being happy about bad results but tbh I've not really seen much of that thankfully.
Your position is rational, I’m also waiting and seeing I just don’t expect anything while I think you’re a bit more open minded.

On Pep and Sanchez I get the logic behind it but I’m not sure. I think Pep has been quoted saying something along the lines of him helping the team get to the final third but then letting them do their thing once he gets there.

From watching City it seems like he usually gives his most talented player (KDB/Messi) and sometimes one other license to be a bit more risky in the final third while the others play their role. Maybe Sanchez would have been one of his guys?
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
His managerial career at Arsenal SHOWS he is a bad manager. I just don’t get people like you. You are trying to give him every benefit of doubt and the most time possible to rule out he is not the one
Arteta is going to be here anyway, literally nothing to lose from given him the benefit. Even if your gut tells you he’s crap.
 

Haphazard

Active Member
When asked before the season about the aim he said this:

" Our goal is to get the best version, consistently, that is going to bring us closer to winning football matches. That is all I want from the team.

If we do that consistently in every single match, we are going to be in a good place. That is something that we haven't done, consistently give the best version.

That is something that we must control and we must do. If we are able to do that, the result will be the consequence to that...

On Friday, win against Brentford and we will be in a strong position in the league. That's what we have to do.

The rest will come
. "

I still dont understand what he talked about.
Just waffle to protect himself, his objectives are vague on purpose so that he cannot be held to any standard.
 

Rasmi

Negative Nancy

Country: England
Arteta is going to be here anyway, literally nothing to lose from given him the benefit. Even if your gut tells you he’s crap.
Oh he will be here until end of the season just as Laca will start for us until end of the season. And both are crap. But benefit of doubt is given to people you are unsure about

If my some miracle we get 4th, and that only happens if Sp**s and United have real bad ending to the season because we will lose atleast 2-3 times. It won’t suddenly make Arteta good manager just as Ole wasn’t hood for finishing second.
 

dka1

100% Dark Chocolate
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
Your position is rational, I’m also waiting and seeing I just don’t expect anything while I think you’re a bit more open minded.

On Pep and Sanchez I get the logic behind it but I’m not sure. I think Pep has been quoted saying something along the lines of him helping the team get to the final third but then letting them do their thing once he gets there.

From watching City it seems like he usually gives his most talented player (KDB/Messi) and sometimes one other license to be a bit more risky in the final third while the others play their role. Maybe Sanchez would have been one of his guys?

Respect bro, like I told Macho recently idgaf about being right and I'll continue to post my honest thoughts lol, but yeah being truthful, things aren't looking good bro, not at all and this collapse caught me off guard and some of the bad things about his management have really been brought into focus too.

Also I just thought about it and my point about Sanchez doesn't even make sense. I think I was referencing the way Guardiola sold him when he was at Barcelona but then he was going to buy him at City.

The better example is Ibra with Pep at Barcelona, which I think is the perfect example for what I was trying to say.
 

celestis

Arsenal-Mania Veteran
Moderator

Country: Australia
I still maintain that we've got 7 games left and I'll reserve ultimate judgement of Arteta until the end of the season. Football can be a little weird sometimes and I think we should atleast hope that we start to perform better as I never like seeing us lose.

We are now in the "Endgame", Chelsea and Utd this week. Anything less than 3 points and it is finished. 4 points and we are still looking good and 6 points (which would be a miracle) and suddenly we are perhaps looking like favs for top 4 again.

I actually want to talk about a few positives we can take from this season. On the whole I like the direction of the squad and I've generally been happy with the signings. I've admitted that I got it wrong with the Ramsdale signing and I still maintain that he's been good this season.

Our defensive record has been quite alright. Of the three "serious contenders" for top 4 (Utd, Sp*rs and us) we have conceded the least goals (that said Wolves have conceded less than us with a very excellent 28 goals let in this season, a great achievement).

We've also kept 13 clean sheets so far this season; 4th best in the league and to put it into some perspective; our Invincible team kept 15 clean sheets.

We've taken 483 shots this season; third best in the league. 155 of those have been on target which is a less impressive sixth best in the league.

Also it's important to point out that our position isn't "false". If we go by expected points it would leave us in 5th in the table currently (so actually one place above the 6th we're in at the moment).

Finally, between January (after the City game) and the Palace game I think that we started to play better and controlled the games more, we recorded 20 shots or more in the Burnley (yes I know it was a bad draw), Brentford, Wolves (home) and Leicester games.

We restricted the opposition to 10 shots or less in 6 out of 8 of those games.

Now, I can't talk about positives without negatives. The biggest biggest indictment of Arteta's style of play is that we just do not create enough good chances, consistently.

I think it's good that we are finally taking more shots and recording a lot of shots too, but we have only created 34 big chances this season, 16th best in the league which quite frankly is pitiful.

Plus with 45 goals scored that puts us behind Utd, Sp*rs, West Ham and level with Leicester this season which is simply not good enough.

I think we've seen in the last three games that;

A. We are still not confident enough to continually break teams down and break them apart with offensive play.

B. We seem to worry too much about keeping possession and control rather than taking risks.

C. We are f*cked if we go even 1 down.

I was listening to the Legrove podcast and they made the really good point that Alexis Sanchez lost the ball all of the time, and probably wouldn't be a player that Arteta would play or like much lol.

Yet we can all see that Sanchez was so great for us exactly because he did take risks; how can you expect to consistently hurt teams if you're trying to set up boring, sterile and predictable patterns of attack.

I very much doubt we will ever be a truly great offensive team under Arteta unless we start giving the offense more freedom. The players shouldn't be so afraid to make mistakes that it stifles their ability to create.

Finally for the negatives, his man management leaves A LOT to be desired. I think this is well trodden ground at this point so I won't talk much more about it but yeah, not good.

Alexis would lose the ball least amongst this squad though . His quality is well above any attacker in this squad .
 

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