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Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

SA Gunner

Hates Tierney And Wants Him Sold Immediately
Moderator

Country: South Africa

Player:Nketiah
If this were true there's no way he'd have such a good relationship with and backing in the dressing room. What matters is if a manager gets the players behind him. The players are clearly very strongly behind him and speak glowingly about him...so why do people come to these conclusions? I don't really get it.

Yes, credit is due to Mikel. I haven’t seen us so together in a long long time.

I’m no psychologist or body language expert, so my hunches could be complete BS, because those boys are playing for the manager and the badge right now.

Those who are in his circle mind you. Just watch Pepe around him, or Laca when he was missing chance after chance.
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
We've seen what happened to those who didn't quite fall in line along with the PR that came along with it, so some of us don't really buy it.
That isn't really a reason not to buy it. It's not PR really, it's just pretty obvious, you can tell when a team is behind a manager and when not, and it's really quite obvious that the team has remained behind Mikel and playing hard for him even when we have had extremely poor runs of results.

A couple of exceptions doesn't change that and basing such an opinion on one or two exceptions (Auba and Guendouzi, and even Auba is not even a really strong example, because his best mate in the dressing room kept playing extremely hard for Mikel and behind him--Laca--and Auba is someone who chose to re-sign with the help of Mikel's persuasion, so it was something that occurred later on in their relationship) isn't very sound logic.
I’m no psychologist or body language expert, so my hunches could be complete BS, because those boys are playing for the manager and the badge right now.

I have a degree in psychology (not in body language), and while a degree in psychology doesn't make me any expert or authority, I can say for sure that any 'body language expert' or 'psychologist' coming to sweeping conclusions based on extremely small samples of film that we see from Mikel is taking the piss, or vendiendo la moto as we say in spanish, and any serious psychologist would just say to focus on the relevant evidence we have at our disposal (which all really points to one conclusion, as you agree).

It's not really that complicated, and you don't manage to have a big group of men (20-30 first team members in training on a day to day basis, + all the other staff) so strongly behind you if you are such an unsympathetic character, with such unlikeability and lack of emotional intelligence as people project unto Mikel.

It just wouldn't really be possible. What we know from psychology is that emotional intelligence is one of the primary and most important capacities / types of intelligence involved in leading any team of persons. So yeah, a team of such extent, just isn't going to be successfully led with someone who is so lacking in emotional intelligence and empathetic capability as is made out here.

Later, people have different management styles, and Mikel's is clearly of the Guardiola school of extreme exigency and demand on professionalism, but there is no incompatibility between that and having emotional intelligence and managing to lead effectively.
 

Gunner D

Coronavirus Truther; ex. Gunner boy dd
It's not really that complicated, and you don't manage to have a big group of men (20-30 first team members in training on a day to day basis, + all the other staff) so strongly behind you if you are such an unsympathetic character, with such unlikeability and lack of emotional intelligence as people project unto Mikel.
This isn’t true. Mikel only uses like 13 players of his squad. Doubt the players he’s kicked out the club or players like Pepe or Lokonga think much of him.

Think you and Arteta need to get a room. Also, why do you put a * in Emery’s name? Really weird.
 

Batman

Head of the Wayne foundation for benching Nketiah

Country: USA

Player:Saliba
But I mean what does the Abramovic saga have to do with the quality of players on the pitch?

It was these very same players who competed right until the end, twice, against the worlds best team, only to lose, due to the lottery of penalties. Where was the Abramovic saga in those high intensity moments? Or do you blame the penalty shootout on Roman and the stresses he brought on these poor players right about penalty time?

It’s an excellent question… this rookie of ours that is wanted out, after three years of wastage, with a bunch of misfit kids, who were mocked, finished within 2 games of the world champions. After being 0 after 3 match days.
Ahh I see so you don't know how not knowing who will own your club or whether you could be banned from competitions can affect a manager and players but you're cool with Arteta using age, covid and referees as excuses after spending more than anyone in Europe only to bottle CL football against PL giants Southampton and Brighton. Really sound logic. Not ridiculous at all. Also, not sure how being in a job for almost 3 years makes one a rookie but I guess when you're clutching at straws in making excuses you don't really care how dumb they are. Why not go further and call him a wittle toddler. That would maybe excuse him constantly ****ting the bed.
 

GoonerJay24

Well-Known Member
No, what are you sources? You were stating it all as hard facts, like there was some infalable proof. The british core weren't that younger than him.

Bendtner said Arteta was very intense and he couldn't be gotten around, which is why he always felt he would be a manager (and a good one at that, according to Niklas).


Ex-Rangers star Arteta was proper arrogant and a bit of a 'd***' says Rae

Former teamate of his from Rangers.

There's a story somewhere about Arteta when he was captain and people weren't really warm to him, but I can't remember from where it was.

Plenty of reports of how laser focused and sort of cold he can be, he wasn't an amazingly popular captain within the squad, just a respected one.

It's difficult factualising things from years ago, we're without access to the club and players.

I just recall reading reports on how he was a good infectious leader. The season Song left for Barcelona Arteta sacrificed his more offensive midfield role to become a deeplying player and diligently learnt the defensive side of the game; such selflessness has been the hallmark of great captains in football history.

As I said most good leaders espouse certain personality traits or even a slight ego, so long as that ego doesn't too far and breed toxicity. Bendtners finding Mikel intense is unsurprising, as both were complete opposites as professionals and general character.

Once again, I don't rate him too highly as a manager as for me he's too tactically inflexible and seems reluctant to give certain players a chance, especially those with French Ethnic backgrounds. However, him being an outstanding influential leader here is the main reason why he got hired. Nonetheless I don't necessarily like his personality as a manager.

Just because this is England does not mean captains have only been great if they are strereotyoically loud, aggressive, imposing i.e. Adams, Keane, Viera etc.
 

GoonerJay24

Well-Known Member
Evidence?

No strong evidence but found this article - No fools, no easy bonuses: How Mertesacker and Arteta revived Arsenal as players

Also we won numerous cups a couple of years later. I think combining a British core, with experienced strong characters and a sprinkle of technical world class talent i.e. Cazorla, Özil; pushed that team to trophies and top three finishes, despite the big injuries.

The Fabregas era lacked characters and in my opinion, a British contingent.
 

El Duderino

That's, like, your opinion, man.
Moderator
It's difficult factualising things from years ago, we're without access to the club and players.

I just recall reading reports on how he was a good infectious leader.

Where, though? Surely you can find that out? "Infectious leader" kind of a bold claim and given how you said he rubbed of on the English core and how him and Per changed the culture.

Arteta bought Ivan a watch and Per collected the fines. Not saying they were bad captains, but there was a solid difference between him and Viera, for instance, and it's telling how every time a new captain is chosen, we all go back to Paddy as the gold standard outside of someone like Adams.
 

GoonerJay24

Well-Known Member
Where, though? Surely you can find that out? "Infectious leader" kind of a bold claim and given how you said he rubbed of on the English core and how him and Per changed the culture.

Arteta bought Ivan a watch and Per collected the fines. Not saying they were bad captains, but there was a solid difference between him and Viera, for instance, and it's telling how every time a new captain is chosen, we all go back to Paddy as the gold standard outside of someone like Adams.
This is years ago, I can't find many reports nowadays. I just remember reading alot about his influence back then.

Viera was a great captain but played with better players and was a more directly aggressive midfielder, whom typically more lauded in this country. But you forget that he would regularly criticize the club, some teammates and talked openly about moving to Madrid or Juventus.
 

Paperino

It’s Timo Time

Country: Sweden
No strong evidence but found this article - No fools, no easy bonuses: How Mertesacker and Arteta revived Arsenal as players

Also we won numerous cups a couple of years later. I think combining a British core, with experienced strong characters and a sprinkle of technical world class talent i.e. Cazorla, Özil; pushed that team to trophies and top three finishes, despite the big injuries.

The Fabregas era lacked characters and in my opinion, a British contingent.

Oh my God... The only source you can provide is an article from The Trashletic written by Gunnertwat. You should delete your account. Fool.
 

Sapient Hawk

Can You Smell What The Hawk Is Cooking?
Trusted ⭐

Country: Saudi Arabia
A disastrous start like last season will, hopefully, see him out on his arse with nothing to look forward to aside from Levante style gigs or reading Pep's fan mail.

No other "Big" club will fall for his PR spin doctors & their regurgitated nonsense about cultural resets & "vibes"!

Then, we can go about resetting our ambitions to try & challenge for the title in a few seasons with the right recruitment & management.
 

Camus

Active Member
Trusted ⭐
Lol, you quote my statement, "do you really think our level was like this?" and then delete the part where I describe our level statistically. Then you say you are meeting my standards and describing our level via my standards, which is just obviously untrue, because you've eliminated everything I cited about our level, lol.

So this wasn't you made this statement and cited these stats?

But the stats speak for themselves re: that question. The club in the premier league era has never seen such lows as it saw under Unai Em*ry in 19-20 (1.38 pts/g, the pace of an 11th place finish, 14th on xG)





The post is there. ^ Your response to that post is either idiotic or disingenuous and playing for internet points as always. I prefer to give you the credit and think it's the latter but perhaps it is just the former in your case.

I am done bothering with you. Yes, I know what disingenuous means, and it applies perfectly to you. Frankly you've never been right or factual about a thing. You know you are wrong about the Em*ry / Arteta argument, you know you've always been wrong about it, honestly, and anyone with half a brain with the post I presented the other day can see that, and you are just playing for internet points with disingenuous and facile arguments like always.

I am done with you and the clowns in this thread. Other reasonable posters here seem to have learned before me and have abandoned this thread and given up dealing with all the clowns in here. I regret having even tried to have a good, decent, honest discussion in this thread with the great majority of you.

This is the post regarding the first 13 games of the season under Em*ry.


If you honestly can't compare that to the data above and see that we have never reached, on the whole, those levels of futility, again, we are wasting our time.

And I know that, indeed, we are wasting our time, hence why I won't bother to respond further with you. The same conclusion I am always left to when I end up arguing with utter clowns like you, who are just trying to score internet points. Really sad. This time I won't hope that a 6 month break from trying to have a good debate with people and thinking that more and more evidence piled on will make them see the obvious. It is clear that certain people will always just be clowns. The sad part is that I get the feeling in your case that you actually can see my points but ignore them and get into disingenuous reasoning, wilfully ignoring certain parts as you routinely do (this post being a perfect example), just because you are really interested in scoring internet points. And that is or would be really sad. But perhaps I give you too much credit.
Why do a break down of Emery's 13 games in 2019/20 but not Arteta in 2020/21?


Arteta 2020/21

Fulham vs Arsenal
Shots: 5-13
On target: 2-6
Possession: 45.6-54.4
xG: 0.06-2.89


Arsenal vs West Ham
Shots: 7-14
On target: 3-3
Possession: 62.6-37.4
xG: 1.33-2.06

Liverpool vs Arsenal:
Shots: 21-4
On target: 8-3
Possession: 66-34
xG: 2.74-1.18

Arsenal vs Sheffield United:
Shots: 6-6
On target: 5-2
Possession: 64.5-35.5
xG: 0.67-0.14

Man City vs Arsenal:
Shots: 13-11
On target: 5-3
Possession: 58.5-41.5
xG: 1.87-0.84

Arsenal vs Leicester:
Shots: 12-6
On target: 4-2
Possession: 56.3-43.7
xG: 0.74-0.74

Manchester United vs Arsenal:
Shots: 8-7
On target: 2-2
Possession: 53.3-46.7
xG: 0.39-1.00

Arsenal vs Aston Villa:
Shots:13-15
On target: 2-6
Possession: 58.8-41.2
xG: 1.39-1.99

Leeds vs Arsenal:
Shots: 25-9
On target: 4-2
Possession: 66.3-33.7
xG: 1.96-0.71

Arsenal vs Wolves:
Shots: 13-11
On target: 2-5
Possession: 56.2-43.8
xG: 1.12-2.01

Sp**s vs Arsenal:
Shots: 6-11
On target: 3-2
Possession: 30.2-69.8
xG: 0.39-0.60

Arsenal vs Burnely:
Shots: 18-10
On target: 6-2
Possession: 64.7-35.3
xG: 1.85-0.82

Arsenal vs. Southampton:
Shots: 9-13
On target: 4-3
Possession: 35.2-64.8
xG: 0.66-1.11

-------

Points : 14 (Emery 18)
Position: 15th (Emery 8th)

GF: 11 (Emery 18)
GA: 16 (Emery 19)

Shots F: 133 (Emery 162)
Shots A: 153 (Emery 218)

Shots on target F: 45 (Emery 58)
Shots on target A: 47 (Emery 73)

Possession: 52.2% (Emery 56.15%)

xGF: 14.24 (Emery 17.78)
xGA: 15.91 (Emery 21.94)

Pts pace: 40.2 (17th) -- (Emery 52.61/11th)
xPTS pace: 49.3 (12th) -- (Emery 46.7/14th)

Arteta superior in 6 stats
Emery superior in 9 stats



jose-mourinho-ssh.gif
 

GoonerJay24

Well-Known Member
Oh my God... The only source you can provide is an article from The Trashletic written by Gunnertwat. You should delete your account. Fool.
Rudeness is unnecessary. I never read British media outlets much, so don't know the solidity of that source or whoever the Athletic are. Just the article makes similar points to what I was saying earlier.
 

Camus

Active Member
Trusted ⭐
Think Geordie was focused on this season no? Asking the question why Tuchel’s Champions of the world, finished 5 points ahead of a rookie and a bunch of kids?

Thought it was a valid question to ask actually.
He said "why should Tuchel be kept and Arteta sacked if Tuchel only finished 5 points ahead of Arteta". As that other mug Rory pointed out, Tuchel has shown/done enough in the 1.5 years he's been at Chelsea to warrant being cut some slack for a mediocre PL season.

Liverpool/Klopp only finished 7 points ahead of Sp**s last season. Does that mean that Klopp should have been sacked like Mourinho? Or does it mean that Mourinho shouldn't have been sacked? It nonsensical. Yes Liverpool had a "bad" season, but Klopp had done more than enough to be cut some slack. Whereas Mourinho didn't have that luxury. Plenty of examples like this exist.
 

Baki

Loves Anime Hates Mikel
Think Geordie was focused on this season no? Asking the question why Tuchel’s Champions of the world, finished 5 points ahead of a rookie and a bunch of kids?

Thought it was a valid question to ask actually.
Not really. Chelsea had unprecedented sanctions, could only spend 25k per away game, created massive uncertainty for the entire club. I imagine it’s hard to play under such uncertainty.
 

scytheavatar

Established Member
What's this cultural reset you guys keep talking about? Is it one of those stuff no one is supposed to know about? Only the manager has the right to determine what is culturally appropriate?

Did Klopp do any cultural reset? He just came in and went about implementing his style of play and got the team winning games.

Arteta already made it clear himself what the cultural reset is: it's all about squeezing the players like they are lemons.

The problem for him is that if you squeeze your players hard it is inevitable that they will reach the point of burnout and eventually they get squeezed dry. When that happens they stop responding to the manager and that is when the manager needs to be replaced. What that happened to all the Mourinho teams already proved that. Players are human beings with their limits, they are not video game characters.
 

yorch44

Commander of the Pelotudo Brigade
Anyone who can read body language, which should be everyone, will likely see what I see, that Arteta is just not approachable. Its either he has 100 things running through his head and thus seems distant, or is a cold and off putting to 80% of people he interacts with.

He reminds me of Dexter Morgan, able to put up a face but actually doesn’t GAF. He’s just there for the business.
Do you know if murdering crimes have increased in the places he were nearby? Like Spain, Glasgow, Liverpool, London, Manchester and London again.
 
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