Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[Trilly]

Decent stat but we have a lot of these that look good without context. We’ve been topping ‘since date x’ type tables for like 2 years now it feels.

The only managers I rate as better than Arteta are at bad teams or haven’t been here since 2019 so it’s a bit of a nothing stat really.

Good start to the season from Mikel and Arsenal though, I’ve got a few minor complaints but chance creation looks good and that was like 90% of our issues last season.

 

[SA Gunner]

Don't believe he is good enough unfortunately. Now if we'd had Conte all these years with this spend absolutely, if there'd never been a WOB campaign and Arsène had this spend and fan support we'd already have won a title. Again, hopefully he surprises us but i'm keeping expectations to top 3 for now, 4th will be fine

So here's where I get confused, perhaps you could enlighten me.

On the one hand Arteta is not good enough for the title, but he is good enough for 3rd/4th. There was a stage earlier on, where Arteta wasnt good enough period.

How is Arteta not good enough to build a title winning squad, but the squad itself is getting closer and closer to title contending squad levels. That's not just my opinion but the opinion of some posters on this forum.

What is the driver behind tall this improvement, if Arteta isnt good enough?

 

[Trilly]

Don't think anyone could have foresaw this evolution of Xhaka's game and the way we've adapted our tactics.

Just shows the genius of Wenger.

Called Xhaka a B2B CM like 5 years ago and everyone kind of laughed it off as wise old man advice

 

[Makingtrax]

Then talk about the f*cking Leicester game then don't tally up his wins from 2019 talk about August 2022.

I'm triggered now.

I’ll talk about the Leicester game . . . the pass map wasn’t U shaped for once. Either Arteta has learnt that you need players in the box to score, or Jesus has told him to **** off with deep lying CF.

 

[SA Gunner]

Just shows the genius of Wenger.

Called Xhaka a B2B CM like 5 years ago and everyone kind of laughed it off as wise old man advice

And Arteta's contribution to that adjustment of Xhaka's role?

 

[Macho]

I’ll talk about the Leicester game . . . the pass map wasn’t U shaped for once. Either Arteta has learnt that you need players in the box to score, or Jesus has told him to **** off with deep lying CF.

Admittedly, it seems Laca was either hiding from the box or told to help with build up play and didn't have the legs to make it back in the box in time, like we are seeing with Jesus (he's everywhere).

Could be both. Personally I lean towards Laca completely losing confidence and overcompensating for not having the presence in the box.

The player that left was completely different from the one that showed up fingers crossed that doesn't happen to Jesus.

 

[Trilly]

And Arteta's contribution to that adjustment of Xhaka's role?

What do you mean?

 

[SA Gunner]

What do you mean?

Xhaka's prominence as an advanced 8 in our system. He looks a different player doesnt he.

My question... what's your thoughts on Arteta making that happen?

 

[Makingtrax]

Xhaka's prominence as an advanced 8 in our system. He looks a different player doesnt he.

My question... what's your thoughts on Arteta making that happen?

If that’s the way he wanted Xhaka to play, why has he waited 3 seasons?

 

[SA Gunner]

If that’s the way he wanted Xhaka to play, why has he waited 3 seasons?

What about now Trax?

What do you attribute the change of positioning to?

Luck?

Did he stumble across the Wenger quotes?

 

[Trilly]

Xhaka's prominence as an advanced 8 in our system. He looks a different player doesnt he.

My question... what's your thoughts on Arteta making that happen?

It’s a good tactical tweak but honestly I don’t find it mind blowing.

Not because of an agenda but because I was one of a few on here who never had faith in TP5 as anything but a 6 while also thinking that Xhaka is a good footballer.

I think Arteta’s showed some managerial common sense there, but it’s nothing groundbreaking. The stuff he did earlier with Xhaka was more tactically interesting tbh, didn’t help results but it showed more tactical insight.

 

[Batman]

The early returns are good. I'll give Arteta credit where it's due. This is the best football we've played under him. If he can sustain this style and intensity then we'll make the CL and he won't be a liability.

 

[SA Gunner]

It’s a good tactical tweak but honestly I don’t find it mind blowing.

Not because of an agenda but because I was one of a few on here who never had faith in TP5 as anything but a 6 while also thinking that Xhaka is a good footballer.

I think Arteta’s showed some managerial common sense there, but it’s nothing groundbreaking. The stuff he did earlier with Xhaka was more tactically interesting tbh, didn’t help results but it showed more tactical insight.

That's exactly it IMO, tactical adjustments that have brought out the best of Xhaka. Not groundbreaking sure, but its the level of nous which shows we dont have a doofus leading us.

You can extrapolate that thinking and apply it to Nketiah, Ødegaard, Martinelli, TP5 and a few others who have dramatically improved over the last while.

 

[Trilly]

@SA Gunner really trying to force some Mikel humble pie out of Trax.

He’ll get the praise when it’s deserved, no agendas here, he’s got a clean slate. If he had done this kind of stuff without being bankrolled I’d be screaming his name from the rooftops.

The money spent just raises the bar a bit in terms of praising him, I think that’s fair.

 

[DanDare]

There were times more than once where he didn't perform though. The club kept him on when others might have not, so there's a big asterisk on that stat with Arteta being given the time and expenditure to rack up those wins.

Lampard got top 4 with mostly academy talent but he's seen as an inferior manager for eg. he's already done what Arteta is trying to do and got told to gtfo.

Yeah, I think every team has a narrative and circumstances that give context to stats. In the end though, proof is in the points, wins and league position. Arteta by no means out of the woods. Not getting top 4 is probably grounds for hooking him now

 

[SA Gunner]

@SA Gunner really trying to force some Mikel humble pie.

He’ll get the praise when it’s deserved, no agendas here, he’s got a clean slate. If he had done this kind of stuff without being bankrolled I’d be screaming his name from the rooftops.

The money spent just raises the bar a bit in terms of praising him, I think that’s fair.

Not at all bud, I make a point of not arguing the Arteta thing anymore, because its endless. Ill never ask you to admit anything.

Here's my view on our current situation.... We have actually been playing these patterns for over a season now, or at the very least around a season. Basically around the time the team started playing together post the big buys.

The difference is not something suddenly clicking, its that we are now starting to get profiles in that takes our "bubbling under metrics" to absolute outcomes like solid performances and convincing wins. Now whether that is a good thing or not (needing specific players) is a separate discussion.

 

[Trilly]

Not groundbreaking sure, but its the level of nous which shows we dont have a doofus leading us.

I don’t think many (if any) think that. Even his biggest rational haters would accept he’s at least average.

The ideal Arsenal manager needs to be very, very, very good and most of his detractors just don’t/didn’t think he was anywhere near that.

My personal opinion is that I find it difficult to separate our improvement from our spend and that makes it difficult to judge Arteta based off beating teams he should be beating. He’s going to have to be judged by consistency and what we do against the top6/in cups.

 

[SA Gunner]

I don’t think many (if any) think that. Even his biggest rational haters would accept he’s at least average.

The ideal Arsenal manager needs to be very, very, very good and most of his detractors just don’t/didn’t think he was anywhere near that.

You are too generous

Look around mate, you have some interesting takes out here. That we are dealing with an absolute ***** who somehow has an entire club fooled.

In fact..., wait until our next disappointing defeat, they'll all be back

 

[Farzad Stoned]

So here's where I get confused, perhaps you could enlighten me.

On the one hand Arteta is not good enough for the title, but he is good enough for 3rd/4th. There was a stage earlier on, where Arteta wasnt good enough period.

How is Arteta not good enough to build a title winning squad, but the squad itself is getting closer and closer to title contending squad levels. That's not just my opinion but the opinion of some posters on this forum.

What is the driver behind tall this improvement, if Arteta isnt good enough?

Money and time, there is a legitimate debate that he hasn’t provided return on the money or on almost 3 years of time. Arteta has done some things correctly i gave him credit for strengthening defense and Ramsdale move. I’d argue simply that the return on our time and money of one FA cup and Thursdays in Kazakhstan is highly insufficient. Man has been handed a transfer kitty that is among the top 3 or 4 biggest spending clubs in the world last few windows.

 

[SA Gunner]

Money and time, there is a legitimate debate that he hasn’t provided return on the money or on almost 3 years of time. Arteta has done some things correctly i gave him credit for strengthening defense and Ramsdale move. I’d argue simply that the return on our time and money of one FA cup and Thursdays in Kazakhstan is highly insufficient. Man has been handed a transfer kitty that is among the top 3 or 4 biggest spending clubs in the world last few windows.

Why invest in a complete ***** manager?

Is that not the definition of stupidity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.