Mikel Arteta: Artist, Manager, Legend 💡

[Gooner416]

He's in the top 2 managers in the league, and he isn't numero dos!

This is the season our FA cup winner, gets the credit he deserves.

I’m afraid the 2 best managers of this generation are in the league and Arteta isn’t one of them. Nice try Poou.

 

[Gooner416]

Just shows the genius of Wenger.

Called Xhaka a B2B CM like 5 years ago and everyone kind of laughed it off as wise old man advice

He’s done it again!

 

[farzad4daarse]

Why invest in a complete **** manager?

Is that not the definition of stupidity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Do I have to prove to you the universally known fact that smart people can make stupid mistakes? He maybe the real deal but he had a horror show second half of last year. You just can’t ignore that when judging the man’s competence

 

[SA Gunner]

Do I have to prove to you the universally known fact that smart people can make stupid mistakes? He maybe the real deal but he had a horror show second half of last year. You just can’t ignore that when judging the man’s competence

Smart people making stupid mistakes for almost 3 years now? Are you serious?

Maybe, just maybe its your second point.... he just may be competent.

 

[Nacho]

Smart people making stupid mistakes for almost 3 years now? Are you serious?

Maybe, just maybe its your second point.... he just may be competent.

I wouldn't call it a mistake, the way the club has approached this is commendable to an extent.

I am of the firm belief that the club would have got more bang for it's buck with another manager though. I look at the team and the way they play sometimes and I really struggle to rationalise the persistence over the 3 years I really do.

To me despite the eventual improvement it makes zilch sense to me.

 

[farzad4daarse]

Smart people making stupid mistakes for almost 3 years now? Are you serious?

Yes, Napoleon by all accounts was a genius not only militarily and the father of global nationalism. He never understood that his nationalism for France would lead to his enemies Nationalism in Germany and dozens of other nations. Guy made stupid mistakes for years along with other major accomplishments that reflected his high iq and competence.

Maybe, just maybe its your second point.... he just may be competent.

Or maybe the jury is still out and this nonsense about him being competent is contradicted by his performance just a few months ago. Do you think Arteta did a good job last season from the January window and on?

 

[SA Gunner]

Or maybe the jury is still out and this nonsense about him being competent is contradicted by his performance just a few months ago. Do you think Arteta did a good job last season from the January window and on?

Absolutely yes.

 

[Makingtrax]

What about now Trax?

What do you attribute the change of positioning to?

Luck?

Did he stumble across the Wenger quotes?

What? I just asked you a question, that’s all. Why not answer it.

 

[SA Gunner]

What? I just asked you a question, that’s all. Why not answer it.

But I asked a question first?

Let me answer your question though. Its a fair point raised, why not play Xhaka as an advanced #8 after three years of management? I'd also like to know why Arteta didnt do this immediately, because we have suffered with Xhaka being exposed when playing deeper for a long time.

 

[farzad4daarse]

Absolutely yes.

On what basis his team failing from a position of strength and not being to finish above Sp**s who were in free fall? Sp**s and Conte added talent in January Arteta cut an already thin squad and added nothing. He failed while playing almost a third of a season less matches and Arsenal spending a ton more than Sp**s under his reign. And then there is the question of would a Saliba who had one year almost with the team been as bad as Holding was down the stretch? Sp**s tried to choke it away and we lost 3 matches in a row to bottom half teams. In what way does this reflect on Arteta’s competency in a positive manner?

 

[farzad4daarse]

But I asked a question first?

Let me answer your question though. Its a fair point raised, why not play Xhaka as an advanced #8 after three years of management? I'd also like to know why Arteta didnt do this immediately, because we have suffered with Xhaka being exposed when playing deeper for a long time.

He is not good enough in attack or defense to be number 8. Not for where the club wants to go. He is a better 8 than 6 but doesn’t give you enough going forward or tracking back to justify his luxury status.

 

[SA Gunner]

On what basis his team failing from a position of strength and not being to finish above Sp**s who were in free fall? Sp**s and Conte added talent in January Arteta cut an already thin squad and added nothing. He failed while playing almost a third of a season less matches and Arsenal spending a ton more than Sp**s under his reign. And then there is the question of would a Saliba who had one year almost with the team been as bad as Holding was down the stretch? Sp**s tried to choke it away and we lost 3 matches in a row to bottom half teams. In what way does this reflect on Arteta’s competency in a positive manner?

Bro

Go back and read my posts on this matter. Otherwise go and watch a few youtube videos which talk about this topic at length. Im not going through this again.

 

[farzad4daarse]

Bro

Go back and read my posts on this matter. Otherwise go and watch a few youtube videos which talk about this topic at length. Im not going through this again.

You never address these questions that I recall and I follow the Arteta thread pretty closely. You don’t address it now which leads me to think you don’t have good answers to these very legitimate questions

 

[Slug457]

So here's where I get confused, perhaps you could enlighten me.

On the one hand Arteta is not good enough for the title, but he is good enough for 3rd/4th. There was a stage earlier on, where Arteta wasnt good enough period.

How is Arteta not good enough to build a title winning squad, but the squad itself is getting closer and closer to title contending squad levels. That's not just my opinion but the opinion of some posters on this forum.

What is the driver behind tall this improvement, if Arteta isnt good enough?

If we'd had a Pulis or a Fat Sam spending the most money in Europe over a number of years i'd expect a top 3 at some point. We're yet to get 4th as it stands, the belief comes more from the expenditure and the total support of the fans within the stadiums, not a belief in Arteta. I'll concede Tets has improved from the terrible lows of the 8th season were we didn't score in 10 or something silly, to what extent i'm unsure. Will be revealed this season.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

I think Arteta was the wrong appointment considering our circumstances at the time. I wanted Ancelotti at the time and I'll stick by that.

He probably should have been sacked twice in his first year and half.

I think we're at the stage now though where we're starting to see some real improvements. Sure we've spent quite a wedge of money but that's necessary if you want to compete with the big boys in this day and age. We've been through a lot of rough with Arteta hopefully now it's time for some smooth.

I understand it but it becomes a bit futile having a dig at him for errors he made 18 months ago, he's a young manager and does seem capable of learning from his mistakes.

What gets me buzzing a bit is the players and fans seem like they are really getting behind Arteta and more importantly the club.

Maybe I'm just being optimistic but it feels like the club is on an upward trajectory for the first time quite a number of years.

I really believe 4th or maybe even 3rd is on the cards this season. I think we'll surprise a few.

 

[SA Gunner]

If we'd had a Pulis or a Fat Sam spending the most money in Europe over a number of years i'd expect a top 3 at some point. We're yet to get 4th as it stands, the belief comes more from the expenditure and the total support of the fans within the stadiums, not a belief in Arteta. I'll concede Tets has improved from the terrible lows of the 8th season were we didn't score in 10 or something silly, to what extent i'm unsure. Will be revealed this season.

Yeah mate, Ill disagree with you on this one.

You dont throw millions at Sam or Pulis or even Lampard and expect us to win the league or even make top four. That is just not going to happen IMO.

You need the facilities first to prove that you know what you are doing. And I think that is what happened at Arsenal with Arteta.

 

[Slug457]

Yeah mate, Ill disagree with you on this one.

You dont throw millions at Sam or Pulis or even Lampard and expect us to win the league or even make top four. That is just not going to happen IMO.

You need the facilities first to prove that you know what you are doing. And I think that is what happened at Arsenal with Arteta.

Lampard got top 4 As for Pulis/Sam I doubt Pulis could but it's not unreasonable to think if Sam had been given a free hand at Arsenal and the most spend in Europe over a number of years he could finish 8th/8th/5th/lose to Olympiacos/Villarreal in Europa. A FA cup is great but Wenger won 3 in 4, because of the poor league form in 2017/18 still left, league performance is the bread and butter. Highly unlikely Sam could ever win a FA cup however so i'll give Tets gets credit for that.

As I said, Arteta has clearly improved from the San Marino levels of not scoring in 10, perhaps he does know what he is doing and is going to show it this season, I believe it is very possible he will, but I can only judge him on what he has done so far.

 

[Makingtrax]

I don’t think many (if any) think that. Even his biggest rational haters would accept he’s at least average.

The ideal Arsenal manager needs to be very, very, very good and most of his detractors just don’t/didn’t think he was anywhere near that.

My personal opinion is that I find it difficult to separate our improvement from our spend and that makes it difficult to judge Arteta based off beating teams he should be beating. He’s going to have to be judged by consistency and what we do against the top6/in cups.

Hits the nail on the head. When you spend this much how do you separate what’s manager talent and what’s player talent.

You’ve only got to look at Arsène to answer that. When he was spending near the top of the league, he won 3 titles, when money was very tight he maintained top 4. Let’s see what Tets does over the next couple of seasons and we’ll know. 3 titles would be great.

 

[grange]

Hits the nail on the head. When you spend this much how do you separate what’s manager talent and what’s player talent.

You’ve only got to look at Arsène to answer that. When he was spending near the top of the league, he won 3 titles, when money was very tight he maintained top 4. Let’s see what Tets does over the next couple of seasons and we’ll know. 3 titles would be great.

 

[SA Gunner]

Lampard got top 4 As for Pulis/Sam I doubt Pulis could but it's not unreasonable to think if Sam had been given a free hand at Arsenal and the most spend in Europe over a number of years he could finish 8th/8th/5th/lose to Olympiacos/Villarreal in Europa. A FA cup is great but Wenger won 3 in 4, because of the poor league form in 2017/18 still left, league performance is the bread and butter.

As I said, Arteta has clearly improved from the San Marino levels of not scoring in 10, perhaps he does know what he is doing and is going to show it this season, I believe it is very possible he will, but I can only judge him on what he has done so far.

Lampard did get top four, that's true. He then dropped like a rock soon thereafter. This also after being outclassed by our rookie with primitive tactics at the time. That's why he was booted out at Chelsea, and continues to stutter along in his new gig, with no signs of improved metrics (unless you consider defensive counter attacking football as good stuff).

The key point Im making here is that absolute outcomes do not tell the full story of the situation. Now I am someone who wants to look at the complete picture with its detail before I draw conclusions, and in Lampard's case, he made top four yes but he was rubbish as a coach and continues to be rubbish as a coach today.

Here is my prediction on Arteta, based on my reading of the work he has done at the club. We are on track to be clear of the rest of the league bar City and Liverpool. If not by this season's end, then it will be cemented by the time the table takes shape next season. That's WITH the 8/8/5 placed finishes, and crumbling against Newcastle and Sp**s last season AND potential low points this season.